zeeker - thx..I was thinking along those lines..but I'd hate to be wrong since they're coming up from Philly..what a pain in the a**, but if they're as good looking as he says they are, then I guess its worth it..the 2 he was with last Saturday WERE that good looking - thats then only reason I'm even asking this question.. anyone ever try this at factory?? I would think it'd be a lot tougher there..