georgym Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 I personally am not a full-fledged one, but have an affinity for Karl Marx's version.Tis a shame that many people associate Communism with the names "Stalin" , "Lenin", etc...There are many forms of communism, but true communism never actually took place (MArxism). And Leon Trotsky had an international view towards society that even intrigued American scholars I think that personally it got a bad rap. Capitalism is not much better. It seems non-destructive in our eyes, but there are still numerous problems, and it only succeeds by denigrating another country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted May 29 Author Report Share Posted May 29 Not even you, Sass?I mean, yeah it has pretty much phased out. But doesn't anyone find some epithets of it appealing? (the Karl Marx brand, not Lenin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted May 29 Report Share Posted May 29 GMC...interesting enough, I am reading Karl Marx these days...It is said that communism is the final step for the human race and the end of history as we would know it....since the true communism is something that I seriously doubt humankind will ever live under...In some ways, I guess I'd say I like communism...but to apply this concept to the world today..I highly doubt would work unless people lost their selfishness and greed in order to share and commune with others...Speaking of Stalin....what sickens me is that no one ever talks about what a sick bastard he was (yet another pessimistic topic, yes I know...) But where Hitler had over 6 million people killed...Stalin had 3 times that amount killed...Where do you think communism is most effective today, gmccookney? China, Cuba, or elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted May 29 Author Report Share Posted May 29 Originally posted by sassa Where do you think communism is most effective today, gmccookney? China, Cuba, or elsewhere? Well, the thing is, i don't think it will be effective ANYWHERE right now, SaSs... like you said, the world is too obsessed with wealth and material goods and not into the whole "dialectical materialism" concept YET. It takes a less selfish, compassionate understanding to have communism thrive, and the U.S. is the anti-thesis to that. But perhaps in the future, when people will start to see the bad side of capitalism ring home, such as when there will be no more sweatshops, no more cheap labor, and we become more interconnected with the entire world as one giant nexus, THEN will we inch towards the MENTALITY of communism.It's weird, i kinda lost touch with communist thought, but i took such a great class in school with great books, i want to get back into it. The Communist Manifesto is such a great readGood point on Stalin also. WHen i get old and grow a beard i want to read the biographies on all of these dudes and dudettes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted May 29 Report Share Posted May 29 lol...we should all be monks? then you'd have 90% of the world objecting to that...well, what do you think about this...i've been having this discussion with my friends for a while now...if we are living in such a diverse world with so many cultures and beliefs...and we are to respect and tolerate one another...where do you draw the line as to who is right and who is wrong? could the pedophile sexually assault children and that would be ok because that is what he believes in? is women being treated as second class citizens in saudi arabia, china, and africa right? is the extreme conservative or extreme liberal right? how do you judge things then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted May 29 Report Share Posted May 29 I meant the above post to be a response to your post in the 9/11 thread, gmc...sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 Originally posted by sassa In some ways, I guess I'd say I like communism...but to apply this concept to the world today..I highly doubt would work unless people lost their selfishness and greed in order to share and commune with others... You see, that's the problem. Communism as professed by Mr. Marx would work FANTASTICALLY if it wasn't for the pesky greedy people. Ideologically, Communism is GREAT. But I have to say that it has never been actually carried out on a national scale for a moderately prolonged period of time since Marx conceptualized it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 Originally posted by xpander You see, that's the problem. Communism as professed by Mr. Marx would work FANTASTICALLY if it wasn't for the pesky greedy people. Ideologically, Communism is GREAT. But I have to say that it has never been actually carried out on a national scale for a moderately prolonged period of time since Marx conceptualized it. true..even in china which is supposedly a communist country, is becoming more capitalist in its economic endeavours...i don't think communism will ever work with mankind..we are definitely not going to ever be rid of greed, corruption,and evil in the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted June 2 Report Share Posted June 2 i lived in communist russia, and it was no workers paradise. the life itself was good, we had things that we needed, a dacha, a car, an apartment, etc, but there was absolutely no opportunity to advance, to work and get repaid for your work, and that is because communism does not value property, it does not value personal work as property, which is a fundamental flaw. capitalism is the greatest economical systems because it works, and no, not because it oppresses other countries, thats complete bullshit, capitalism is the natural way of doing business, of running an economy, and that s why communism would never succeed, not because people are evil or greedy, but because communism is utopian and utterly inefficient. i cant believe people think of communism as some complete and best system, when it clearly isnt, and never will be. You should all be a little bit more grateful to Mr. Adam Smith, not mr. Marx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted June 2 Author Report Share Posted June 2 Originally posted by tribal i lived in communist russia, and it was no workers paradise. the life itself was good, we had things that we needed, a dacha, a car, an apartment, etc, but there was absolutely no opportunity to advance, to work and get repaid for your work, and that is because communism does not value property, it does not value personal work as property, which is a fundamental flaw. capitalism is the greatest economical systems because it works, and no, not because it oppresses other countries, thats complete bullshit, capitalism is the natural way of doing business, of running an economy, and that s why communism would never succeed, not because people are evil or greedy, but because communism is utopian and utterly inefficient. i cant believe people think of communism as some complete and best system, when it clearly isnt, and never will be. You should all be a little bit more grateful to Mr. Adam Smith, not mr. Marx I agree w/ a lot of what you're saying, tribe... plus throwing in some personal facts of life in Russia is a kool thing to do.I just don't agree that capitalism is the best way to formulate our economy and society on. I feel it places too much value on property, to the point where we're flooded with material goods and the products lose their "meaningful" value (i.e. we start taking what we have for granted).I know you will ask me, "well, what do you propose, papa smurf"? And i don't have an answer for you now, but i do believe that capitalism is not the end of the line. Something more value-laden and socially-minded may be the way.BTW, anyone ever read Fabian essays (George B. Shaw)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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