malanee Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 I was raised Buddhist. I believe that we are all part of the same pattern, the same universe. I strongly believe in Karma.Organized religion of any kind scares the crap out of me. How many people need to die in the name of God before we humans see the light?BTW, in the tradition I was raised - we were not taught that other religions were bad - but that there were many paths to enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkie Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 BTW, in the tradition I was raised - we were not taught that other religions were bad - but that there were many paths to enlightenment. And, I totally agree, but that is not how most religions see it. Our world would be a much peaceful place if people were more open minded about religion. Isn't that why there have been so many religious wars? And correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the crusades fought so christians could enlighten those we thought were heathens (everyone who was not christian)? I will never understand how people can be so closed minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragongrrrl Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 I wasn't brought up with any sort of religion (my family never went to church together even once!), and i'm still not a "religious" person. Spiritual, maybe, but i still don't have all that worked out for myself, yet, either. Organized religion is not appealing to me because I see religion/spirituality as being *highly* personal, not something i want to share with a group of people.Just to play devil's advocate, to those who said that they started praying in an emergency situation: what about the idea that this life or death situation did not bring out your "true colors," but rather evoked a socially conditioned response? Even if one was not brough up religiously, the idea of prayer is still around us enough that it can get in your head as the thing to do in a dire emergency. Please don't get offended, anyone- i'm just curious as to what people's thoughts are! Wow, i used the word "evoke" twice today! Can i have a cookie? Meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malanee Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by dragongrrrl I wasn't brought up with any sort of religion (my family never went to church together even once!), and i'm still not a "religious" person. Spiritual, maybe, but i still don't have all that worked out for myself, yet, either. Organized religion is not appealing to me because I see religion/spirituality as being *highly* personal, not something i want to share with a group of people.Just to play devil's advocate, to those who said that they started praying in an emergency situation: what about the idea that this life or death situation did not bring out your "true colors," but rather evoked a socially conditioned response? Even if one was not brough up religiously, the idea of prayer is still around us enough that it can get in your head as the thing to do in a dire emergency. Please don't get offended, anyone- i'm just curious as to what people's thoughts are! Wow, i used the word "evoke" twice today! Can i have a cookie? Meg And I would add that prayer doesn't have to have anything to do with a higher being. It may be something that simply calms you and helps you connect with the world and yourself. I think we often underestimate our own powers when it comes to influencing outcomes that seem out of our control. If you believe life is energy and you are a part of that energy - changing that energy with the help of meditation or prayer isn't that outlandish of an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by malanee And I would add that prayer doesn't have to have anything to do with a higher being. It may be something that simply calms you and helps you connect with the world and yourself. I think we often underestimate our own powers when it comes to influencing outcomes that seem out of our control. If you believe life is energy and you are a part of that energy - changing that energy with the help of meditation or prayer isn't that outlandish of an idea. Good call. I like that thought. Even though you don't believe ina higher being or whatever prayer can still relax and calm you, take you to your "happy place" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 I was personally brought up roman -catholic, yet have been exposed to numerous other denominations since (Buddhism, Muslim, Zoroastrianism, etc...)I must say, all faith's have some common thread, some common goal in mind. And i appreciate the message religion exposes, in that there is some meaning to life and of some "afterworld" after we die.Basically, I have beliefs, but do not practice it. I feel Religion is there to provide comfort and understanding about our world , metaphysically speaking, when we choose to seek it. And Mushrooms i LOVE! If you are in tune with yourself, do it with the right tight crew, and just relax, you will have a wonderful experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadamMillie Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by dragongrrrl Just to play devil's advocate, to those who said that they started praying in an emergency situation: what about the idea that this life or death situation did not bring out your "true colors," but rather evoked a socially conditioned response? Even if one was not brough up religiously, the idea of prayer is still around us enough that it can get in your head as the thing to do in a dire emergency. Please don't get offended, anyone- i'm just curious as to what people's thoughts are! true true, i do agree with you, probably for a lot of people it is a socially conditioned response. but if you think about, religion IS a socially conditioned/socailly organized school of thought. if you have never been around religion, you prolly would not think of prayer in dire emergencies. but i think most people's beliefs are a result of socially imposed beliefs, socially accepted standards and such...i dont think that's neccesarily a bad thing (though obviously in some, maybe a lot of cases it is). i think i may be rambling now, but my point is:one's beliefs can result out of socially conditioned/sanctioned schools of though, but they are still one's beliefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadamMillie Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 LET ME ALSO SAY, i think it is HILARIOUS that this thread has evolved into a combination of SHROOMING and RELIGION :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by MadamMillie LET ME ALSO SAY, i think it is HILARIOUS that this thread has evolved into a combination of SHROOMING and RELIGION :laugh: I saw god and the devil one night shrooming. Does that count for anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragongrrrl Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by malanee And I would add that prayer doesn't have to have anything to do with a higher being. It may be something that simply calms you and helps you connect with the world and yourself. I think we often underestimate our own powers when it comes to influencing outcomes that seem out of our control. If you believe life is energy and you are a part of that energy - changing that energy with the help of meditation or prayer isn't that outlandish of an idea. Wow, that sounds like it came straight out of my head! How fantastic, especially considering i *never* discuss those thoughts with people. Again, wow. meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadygroovedc Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by MadamMillie LET ME ALSO SAY, i think it is HILARIOUS that this thread has evolved into a combination of SHROOMING and RELIGION :laugh: Shrooming is almost a religious experience for me. The week after 9/11, when Buzz had the special Scott Henry/Deep Dish night. I took some shrooms with some friends before we went out. It completely opened my mind up to help come to terms with what had happened the week before. I was sad about the events. But then I looked around and saw how everyone at Buzz was so happy and dancing. And at that moment, in mid-trip, I believed in heaven. Sober, however, I don't know. I have too many questions. It used to be so much easier as a kid when you could just "have faith" and believe in such things. But now, I look for logical explanations. And I realize I have no answers. So these days, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragongrrrl Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by therunner I saw god and the devil one night shrooming. Does that count for anything? There's a reason why some drugs are called "mind expanding," i guess. Do any of you think that drugs can be a part of religious experience? I know a lot of people have used drugs in religion around the world, throughout history, but i'm looking for personal opinions. do you think, in the modern world, where we now know a bit (actually, a very little bit) about how these drugs affect brain chemistry, that the drug-induced "spiritual journey" is just a quaint thing of the past? meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by shadygroovedc I have too many questions. It used to be so much easier as a kid when you could just "have faith" and believe in such things. But now, I look for logical explanations. And I realize I have no answers. So these days, I don't know. we just need to realize that there doesnt need to be a logical answer to everything, some stuff just doesnt make sense but is there, like marshmellow fluff, why is it here, what is its goal in this world, why is it so damn tasty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by dragongrrrl There's a reason why some drugs are called "mind expanding," i guess. Do any of you think that drugs can be a part of religious experience? I know a lot of people have used drugs in religion around the world, throughout history, but i'm looking for personal opinions. do you think, in the modern world, where we now know a bit (actually, a very little bit) about how these drugs affect brain chemistry, that the drug-induced "spiritual journey" is just a quaint thing of the past? meg There are still some religions that use drugs, what are those dudes in Jamaica that smoke weed all the time. Indians still use Peyote, and Wine, eventhough it is still not a drug, but back in the old day (old testament) wine would become too ferminted and cause halucination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadygroovedc Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by dragongrrrl There's a reason why some drugs are called "mind expanding," i guess. Do any of you think that drugs can be a part of religious experience? I know a lot of people have used drugs in religion around the world, throughout history, but i'm looking for personal opinions. do you think, in the modern world, where we now know a bit (actually, a very little bit) about how these drugs affect brain chemistry, that the drug-induced "spiritual journey" is just a quaint thing of the past? meg When I'm feeling especially agnostic, I think all the miracles and visions throughout history that religions use to validate themselves were actually drug induced. One example is the Mormons. And I don't mean to offend Mormons with blasphemy, but I'm just trying to put a logical explanation to history. So the Mormons say these dudes were walking in the woods and they came across an angel who gave them gold plates with scriptures. Sounds like a really good trip to me. Native Americans would go smoke themselves silly in the wilderness and have visions. They never thought that the smoke may be making them hallucinate, rather than the spirits.But then again, I also believe when you look around, can you really believe that everything, the trees, the water, life was just a random event set off by proteins coming together in a pool of red hot magma? Dunno. I guess that's what I struggle with these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadamMillie Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by dragongrrrl There's a reason why some drugs are called "mind expanding," i guess. Do any of you think that drugs can be a part of religious experience? I know a lot of people have used drugs in religion around the world, throughout history, but i'm looking for personal opinions. do you think, in the modern world, where we now know a bit (actually, a very little bit) about how these drugs affect brain chemistry, that the drug-induced "spiritual journey" is just a quaint thing of the past? meg no i don't the the drug-induced "spiritual journey" is a thing of the past. maybe i'm not understanding your question, but just b/c we know a little bit of how these drugs work chemically, how does that affect the drug-induced spiritual journey?btw, i dont personally believe those drug-induced spiritual journeys are "real" or "genuine," in expanding your mind or what not. i personally believe that the very fact that they ARE drug-induced sorta discounts any revelations or what-have-you that a person experiences as a result. but that's my opinion, i'm sure others will disagree.i completely agree w/ vic, btw, i dont need logical answers for everything, that's what faith is for, IMO, for believing in things that don't have rational answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadamMillie Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by shadygroovedc When I'm feeling especially agnostic, I think all the miracles and visions throughout history that religions use to validate themselves were actually drug induced. One example is the Mormons. And I don't mean to offend Mormons with blasphemy, but I'm just trying to put a logical explanation to history. So the Mormons say these dudes were walking in the woods and they came across an angel who gave them gold plates with scriptures. Sounds like a really good trip to me. Native Americans would go smoke themselves silly in the wilderness and have visions. They never thought that the smoke may be making them hallucinate, rather than the spirits.i'll agree, i think that many of the visions and miracles we hear about are greatly over-exaggerated and/or the result of some extra-curricular activities. but i still believe in some of them. and i still have faith in the underlying school of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadygroovedc Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by MadamMillie btw, i dont personally believe those drug-induced spiritual journeys are "real" or "genuine," in expanding your mind or what not. i personally believe that the very fact that they ARE drug-induced sorta discounts any revelations or what-have-you that a person experiences as a result. Well, I agree with you to a certain degree. The drug induced "journey" by themselves aren't real or genuine. But if you can take something away to apply while you're sober, or to help understand things you need to come to grips with, then the drugs, in my opinion, have helped you expand your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadamMillie Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by shadygroovedc Well, I agree with you to a certain degree. The drug induced "journey" by themselves aren't real or genuine. But if you can take something away to apply while you're sober, or to help understand things you need to come to grips with, then the drugs, in my opinion, have helped you expand your mind. FREE YOUR MIIIIIIINNNDDDAND THE REST WILL FOLLOWheehee, sorry:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragongrrrl Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by MadamMillie no i don't the the drug-induced "spiritual journey" is a thing of the past. maybe i'm not understanding your question, but just b/c we know a little bit of how these drugs work chemically, how does that affect the drug-induced spiritual journey?btw, i dont personally believe those drug-induced spiritual journeys are "real" or "genuine," in expanding your mind or what not. i personally believe that the very fact that they ARE drug-induced sorta discounts any revelations or what-have-you that a person experiences as a result. but that's my opinion, i'm sure others will disagree.Well, i think you sort of answered what i was asking in that second paragraph... I'm going to do a little speculating: Before we knew how chemicals worked in the brain, or, indeed, that emotions, thoughts, etc, were controlled by brain chemicals at all, little plants and things such as mushrooms that made people hallucinate must have seemed like magic, or ways to see and experience god. and the "trips" people took on them were, in some way, i think, real; not, as we'd say today, brought on by how some chemical in the plant affected your brain chemistry. Does that make any sense?personally, i have never tripped, but the drugs i have done have definitely changed the way i see the world for the better. if i hadn't done them, i would not be who i am today. meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadygroovedc Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 I find it humorous that I'm having a nice, philosophical conversation in this thread, and a totally raunchy conversation in the DJ Ho's thread at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragongrrrl Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by shadygroovedc When I'm feeling especially agnostic, I think all the miracles and visions throughout history that religions use to validate themselves were actually drug induced. One example is the Mormons. And I don't mean to offend Mormons with blasphemy, but I'm just trying to put a logical explanation to history. So the Mormons say these dudes were walking in the woods and they came across an angel who gave them gold plates with scriptures. Sounds like a really good trip to me. hehe, now i'm really going to step on some toes: i sometimes think about the possibility of mental illness with some prophets- hearing voices, having hallucinations. sounds sorta like schizophrenia or some types of seizures. But i don't really think that this negates the validity of these experiences- whether people say they're drug-induced, or the result of a mental illness or whatever. I think that the western way of attributing such experiences to brain chemistry is just one seriously limited way of looking at it.meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 alot of well known artists, authors, philosophers etc. also indulged substances of different types. van gogh drank absinthe and no one can deny he was a great painter.lets face it, these are things that we dont realize when were growing up, but when we do stop and think about them for a while, we come to realize that we have been raised to believe in certain things, to think like everyone else, do like everyone else, and in a way lose our personal selves in the process. thinking differently we run the risk of being labeled as deviant, to to each person his/her own.i came to realize some time ago that when i'm 80 years old, i do not want to be laying in bed one day, and think to myself "damn, i should have done that when i was younger" in this life time we will only go through this period of our lives only once, so we should enjoy what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by shadygroovedc I find it humorous that I'm having a nice, philosophical conversation in this thread, and a totally raunchy conversation in the DJ Ho's thread at the same time. lmao :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadygroovedc Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by vicman i came to realize some time ago that when i'm 80 years old, i do not want to be laying in bed one day, and think to myself "damn, i should have done that when i was younger" in this life time we will only go through this period of our lives only once, so we should enjoy what we have. That's my philosophy too. I always do things so that some years down the road, there are no "what if's". I have to take chances. Even if it means getting crushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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