Jump to content
Clubplanet Nightlife Community

what if...


wideskies

Recommended Posts

My question about this:

Originally posted by hoke

To answer your question, velvetgoldmire, no, of course the relationship would not be the same. I'm not implying that it would be in the original scenario, either. However, I think there's a big difference in the situation you propose. The questions would be more comparable if my lover admitted that she was once my sister but no longer is (which, of course, is impossible).

Relates to this:

Originally posted by hoke

I guess this is one of those Chasing Amy "fingercuffs" discussions... how readily do we accept our lovers' past, when the past does not correspond with our current understanding of them? How important is the past, if they are no longer the same person today? It's something we all struggle with at some point.

It is not a matter of what they once were, but the fact that they held something important back, for fear of rejection. I do agree with you that it is important to understand why the person held back the information, which would be, of course, fear of rejection. But, in reality, for most people, it would stir up so many emotions and questions, including "Is this the person I actually knew" Wouldn;t you be curious what other major secrets the person would have. "Oh my family is a major crime syndicate, and because you are with me, you are connected and your life may be in danger"

How about if this same person tells you that they were once convicted of murder? Your life would be in no serious threat... or would it? They were not a murderer before, but now they are. What if they tell you they are a cannibal? Or, if you want a lesser extent, that she had been sleeping with your father before she even met you. Would this change your opinion? All of these are serious issues that would prevoke fear of rejection.

Secrecy and trust are the question here. Some people, like yourself, say that they would not want to lose that connection. But, there's a balance to everything, and different people have different scales. The question is, when do you start questioning if this is the same person you know?

I agree that more people should have compassion and understand why the person was uneasy about telling you. But, for some, this would be too big of an issue... something that would change the relationship entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. . I'm pretty liberal in what I'm willing to accept . . . I'd have to agree with the major sentiment and say that I'd be upset about being lied to. . . If she (post-op) was a good person, she'd tell you . . Either way, I do think it would be quite obvious tho that the vaginal canal wasn't standard issue upon doin the naked hokey pokey the first time around . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if its not so important then why wouldnt they have told you about it before??

You misunderstand me. It obviously is important to many people, and I've already answered this question from that perspective.

"Oh my family is a major crime syndicate, and because you are with me, you are connected and your life may be in danger"

...

How about if this same person tells you that they were once convicted of murder?

...

What if they tell you they are a cannibal?

I feel these are not fair comparisons. There's a huge difference between being a criminal, murderer, or cannibal, and having a sex change operation. The situations you propose are far more condemning of the person's character. I would not look at them the same.

Or, if you want a lesser extent, that she had been sleeping with your father before she even met you.

That would certainly be awkward, but if I cared about the person, I would do my best to work through whatever feelings it might evoke.

If she (post-op) was a good person, she'd tell you . .

But she is telling you now. How soon would she have to tell you for it to no longer be a violation of trust? When you meet? Before you sleep together? After a month? A year?

For those of you who answer, "Before you sleep together": then is this really an issue of trust, or is it a question of sexuality?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by hoke

You misunderstand me. It obviously is important to many people, and I've already answered this question from that perspective.

I feel these are not fair comparisons. There's a huge difference between being a criminal, murderer, or cannibal, and having a sex change operation. The situations you propose are far more condemning of the person's character. I would not look at them the same.

That would certainly be awkward, but if I cared about the person, I would do my best to work through whatever feelings it might evoke.

But she is telling you now. How soon would she have to tell you for it to no longer be a violation of trust? When you meet? Before you sleep together? After a month? A year?

For those of you who answer, "Before you sleep together": then is this really an issue of trust, or is it a question of sexuality?

It's a question of both. I'm surprised that you can realistically say that, with no reaction whatsoever, you would be able to immediately comfort the person without taking into consideration IF it could change things for your relationship. I mean, I admire your empathy, but to say that it wouldn't shake you up, even a little...well you must not be human then. In an ideal world, I would probably have the same opinion as you. I strive to be empathic, especially with those I care about. And, I think I am pretty damn good at it. Plus, I wonder if it would bother the person who is telling you if they say "I'm actually a man who had a full-blown sex operation" and your response was "Oh, is that all? I understand," I wonder if THEY would think that you are the same person they thought you were. I know from experience that being too understanding can freak some people out and make them even more upset. Because to not get upset about something like that (not saying reject the person, but getting upset) would mean that it would probably be impossible to evoke any kind of emotion out of you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by velvetgoldmire

with no reaction whatsoever, you would be able to immediately comfort the person

I never said that.

but to say that it wouldn't shake you up, even a little...

I never said that either.

if they say "I'm actually a man who had a full-blown sex operation" and your response was "Oh, is that all? I understand,"

That would most certainly not be my reaction.

I'm not perfect, and I definitely do experience emotions. However, I'm wary of situations where my immediate response is strongly emotional, especially if my emotions are negative ones. I try to examine those situations, question where the emotion is coming from, and decide whether I'm comfortable with the direction it's taking me.

It's very easy on paper. The real world is another thing entirely. ;)

Plus, I like to encourage others to consider where their own responses might be coming from. I'm not entirely convinced that everyone who's responded to this thread has honestly examined their motivations for responding the way they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright you two (hoke and velvetgoldmire)....just in case you two haven't realized...you ARE actually on the same wave length here. I do think both of you agree that it's not an easy decision to make and I do think that both of you would give it some serious thought and not reject that person immediately.

Can we agree on that ;) ....cause it seems to me that both of you are going back and forth, even though your thought processes don't differ that significantly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by flying_high

Alright you two (hoke and velvetgoldmire)....just in case you two haven't realized...you ARE actually on the same wave length here. I do think both of you agree that it's not an easy decision to make and I do think that both of you would give it some serious thought and not reject that person immediately.

Can we agree on that ;) ....cause it seems to me that both of you are going back and forth, even though your thought processes don't differ that significantly.

hahaha! Good call! *bemused smile*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by hoke

I'm not perfect, and I definitely do experience emotions. However, I'm wary of situations where my immediate response is strongly emotional, especially if my emotions are negative ones. I try to examine those situations, question where the emotion is coming from, and decide whether I'm comfortable with the direction it's taking me.

It's very easy on paper. The real world is another thing entirely. ;)

Plus, I like to encourage others to consider where their own responses might be coming from. I'm not entirely convinced that everyone who's responded to this thread has honestly examined their motivations for responding the way they did.

Well, this is where you and I come to an agreement. I am the same way. I analyze, but I also know myself, and this situation would be such a disturbance, I could imagine, that I would need to go away, and see if this new fact would seriously change the way I feel about the person. For myself, I cannot answer yes or no, because it would really depend on the person. I would be freaked out, but I would also understand why the person would wish to hold this information back. The way I see it (may be differnet from you, hoke) distance would definitely from the person would definitely be needed to think the situation through clearly, during which time you would speak with those who you trust and hold their opinions in high regard and do a lot of soul searching. For the compassionate person, it is easy to say "Yes, I would be there, because I care for the person," but you've got to factor in how this could alter the relationship and even yourself. If you are straight, and you say you will be there, would you think to yourself that you are having sex with a guy? Would it make you wonder if you were wrong about your sexuality? These are examples of questions that should be confronted and answered before you say "yes, I am with you" to the person, because if you don't, the future won;t be fair to you or them.

I think you are right that some people may be reacting to their first instinct for various reasons, but everyone has their own motivations and personalities. For some people, it changes everything, while for others it may change nothing. For the situation that wideskies painted, I think it did bring out how compassionate some people can and can't be, and for others, how much even a small lie, for whatever reason, can be detrimental in a relationship, and still for others, how the concept of a same-sex relationship can be sickening. Welcome to the world! I hope you brought your towel.

I still say we make a movie about this subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by flying_high

Alright you two (hoke and velvetgoldmire)....just in case you two haven't realized...you ARE actually on the same wave length here. I do think both of you agree that it's not an easy decision to make and I do think that both of you would give it some serious thought and not reject that person immediately.

Can we agree on that ;) ....cause it seems to me that both of you are going back and forth, even though your thought processes don't differ that significantly.

Hey! Don't spoil our fun!:tongue:

It's making my day move faster!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by wideskies

who's gonna play the tranny, that's what i want to know...

maybe shawn would be up for this one, velvet ;]

For the movie? Hmmm... not, I can't see Shanw playing that role. We would have to get a girl who is too h0t for her oen good... Why do I have a feeling that DrunkenBear is going to have the answer to this one. *rolls eyes*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by velvetgoldmire

I think you are right that some people may be reacting to their first instinct for various reasons, but everyone has their own motivations and personalities. For some people, it changes everything, while for others it may change nothing. For the situation that wideskies painted, I think it did bring out how compassionate some people can and can't be, and for others, how much even a small lie, for whatever reason, can be detrimental in a relationship, and still for others, how the concept of a same-sex relationship can be sickening. Welcome to the world! I hope you brought your towel.

True! And while I don't necessarily agree with everyone's reactions (not referring to yours here), I enjoy reading them and responding to them because sometimes they encourage me to think about my own opinions in a new light...

My towel is standard-issue except for the reinforced lining. :)

I still say we make a movie about this subject.

Okay, but there's something I have to tell you first... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by wideskies

nono, shawn films it, see?

and grizz is not too h0t for his own good. watchatalkingabout?

maybe we could get her to play the role:

attachment.php?postid=965551

meOoooOw!

HELL YES

I figured Grizz might know someone for the role of a tranny, but now, you've twisted my arm. *throws on costume* back to Otakon!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...