Jump to content
Clubplanet Nightlife Community
Sign in to follow this  
sassa

What does Islam say about Terrorism

Recommended Posts

What Does Islam Say about Terrorism?

Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}3

Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.4

He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,5 and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.6}7

Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them. Once the Prophet Muhammad said: {A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died. On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.}8

He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action. The Prophet was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.}9

Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible. The Prophet Muhammad said: {When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way. One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.}10

In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam.

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch3-11.htm

Islamic Scholars Refute Al-Qaeda’s 9/11 Justifications

Bin Laden’s Al Qaeda allegedly declared war on all “infidels” in the latest tape released by Al Jazeera

Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, the Vice-President of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, said that “To hijack a civil airplane in which women, children, senior citizens, Muslims, and non-Muslims are traveling is forbidden, because this terrorizes people, and this is forbidden except in times of war, and only against fighters.

“If we add that the hijackers used these airplanes full of civilians to hit the World Trade Center in New York City, where there are thousands of workers, all of them non-fighters, in which there were women and senior citizens, and Muslims… we can then see the magnitude of the violation of Shari’a that the hijackers have fallen into. This is especially true since they meant to kill civilians, and these civilians were not killed in cross-fire,” he added.

Sheikh Mawlawi continued, saying that “to kill the civilians even of an enemy state is forbidden in Islam, because this is a violation of rights and the killing of innocents.”

On his part, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Said “Islam respects the human soul and has given it its inviolability. It is therefore forbidden to attack this sanctity, and to do so would be one of the major sins.”

Sheikh Qaradawi added that “To kill thousands of peaceful civilians who are working for their living – like those who were killed in the [september 11] attacks – is considered a major crime in Islam.”

Other Muslim scholars refuted the justification that the September 11 attacks targeted non-Muslims, saying that this alone is not enough to justify such attacks. They pointed out that the only justification would be if these non-Muslims were attacking and killing Muslims.

“Declaring war against non-combatant infidels and innocent civilians is categorically rejected by Islam,” he said.

Muslim scholar, Atiyyah Saqr, said that: “one of the rights Islam has made inalienable for man is the right to live. This indicates that taking someone’s life without any due cause is one of the most abhorrent crimes in Islam. The reason for this is that killing renders children orphans and wives widows. It spreads chaos and instability in the society.

“Moreover, unlawful killing mars the comfort and serenity enjoyed by members of the society; it outlaws the society’s etiquette and violates people’s rights. All this may turn the whole community into a place where the law of jungle governs everything.

“It is normal in all religions and among all rational people that taking others’ lives by assault without any right is unlawful and totally condemned.”

Another scholar Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, said in the past that “Islam holds every soul in high esteem and does not allow any transgression upon it. It does not allow people to take the law in their own hands and administer justice, because doing so will be leading to chaos and lawlessness.”

Muzammil Siddiqui, the president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) “There is no justification for the evil action like the one committed on 9/11. It was totally against the teachings of Islam.

“Leading Muslim scholars and respectable Islamic organizations throughout the world have unanimously condemned it. Islam forbids killing non-combatants, armless people. The Qur'an clearly says that killing one innocent person is like killing all humanity (al-Ma'idah 5:32).”

He added that those who committed this crime committed a great sin against Allah and against humanity and that those who justify it are giving a bad name to Islam.

http://islamonline.net/english/news/2002-09/15/article15.shtml

Jihad Explained

By M. Amir Ali, Ph.D.

In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his (1) popularity with his constituents and so on. The term strive or struggle may be used for/by Muslims as well as non-Muslims; for example, Allah, the One and Only True God says in the Qur'an:

"We have enjoined on people kindness to parents; but if they STRIVE (JAHADAKA) to make you ascribe partners with Me that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not..." (29:8; also see 31:15)

In the above two verses of the Qur'an , it is non-Muslim parents who strive (jahadaka) to convert their Muslim child back to their religion.

In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is UNHOLY to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable. If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "harbun muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "al-harbu al-muqaddasatu." WE CHALLENGE any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Qur'an or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Qur'an, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda. This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "harb" or "qital," which are found in the Qur'an and Hadith.

For Muslims the term JIHAD is applied to all forms of STRIVING and has developed some special meanings over time. The sources of this development are the Qur'an (the Word of God revealed to Prophet Muhammad (S) [(S) denotes Sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam, meaning peace and blessings of Allah be upon him]. The Qur'an and the Hadith use the word "jihad" in several different contexts which are given below:

1. RECOGNIZING THE CREATOR AND LOVING HIM MOST:

It is human nature to love what is seen with the eyes and felt with the senses more than the UNSEEN REALITY. The Creator of the Universe and the One God is Allah. He is the Unseen Reality which we tend to ignore and not recognize. The Qur'an addresses those who claim to be believers:

"O you who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for protectors if they love disbelief over belief; whoever of you takes them for protectors, such are wrong-doers. Say: if your fathers, and your children, and your brethren, and your spouses, and your tribe, and the wealth you have acquired, and business for which you fear shrinkage, and houses you are pleased with are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and STRIVING in His way: then wait till Allah brings His command to pass. Allah does not guide disobedient folk." (9:23, 24)

It is indeed a struggle to put Allah ahead of our loved ones, our wealth, our worldly ambitions and our own lives. Especially for a non-Muslim who embraces Islam, it may be a tough struggle due to the opposition of his family, peers and society.

2. RESISTING PRESSURE OF PARENTS, PEERS, AND SOCIETY:

Once a person has made up his mind to put the Creator of the Universe above all else, he often comes under intense pressures. It is not easy to resist such pressures and STRIVE to maintain dedication and love of Allah over all else. A person who has turned to Islam from another religion may be subjected to pressures designed to turn him back to the religion of the family. We read in the Qur'an:

"So obey not the rejecters of faith, but strive (jahidhum) against them by it (the Qur'an) with a great endeavor." (25:52)

3. STAYING ON THE STRAIGHT PATH STEADFASTLY:

Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And STRIVE (JADIHU) for Allah with the endeavor (JIHADIHI) which is His right. He has chosen you and has not laid upon you in the DEEN (religion) any hardship..." (22:78)

"And whosoever STRIVES (JAHADA), STRIVES (YUJAHIDU) only for himself, for lo! Allah is altogether independent of the universe." (29:6)

As for those who strive and struggle to live as true Muslims whose lives are made difficult due to persecution by their opponents, they are advised to migrate to a more peaceful and tolerant land and continue with their struggle in the cause of Allah. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Lo! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wronged themselves, (the angels) will ask: 'In what you were engaged?' They will way: 'We were oppressed in the land.' (The angels) will say: 'Was not Allah's earth spacious that you could have migrated therein?'" (4:97)

"Lo! Those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape persecution) and STRIVE (JAHADU) in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy..." (2:218)

Allah tests the believers in their faith and their steadfastness:

"Or did you think that you would enter Paradise while yet Allah knows not those of you who really STRIVE (JAHADU), nor knows those (of you) who are steadfast." (3:142)

"And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and fruits; but give tidings to the steadfast." (2:155)

We find that the Prophet Muhammad (S) and his clan were boycotted socially and economically for three years to force him to stop his message and compromise with the pagans but he resisted and realized a moral victory (2).

4. STRIVING FOR RIGHTEOUS DEEDS:

Allah declares in the Qur'an:

"As for those who STRIVE (JAHADU) in Us (the cause of Allah), We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good doers." (29:69)

When we are faceD with two competing interests, it becomes jihad to choose the right one, as the following Hadith exemplify:

"Aisha, wife of the Prophet (S) asked, 'O Messenger of Allah, we see jihad as the best of deeds, so shouldn't we join it?' He replied, 'But the best of jihad is a perfect Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah).'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari #2784)

At another occasion, a man asked the Prophet Muhammad (S):

"'Should I join the jihad?' He asked, 'Do you have parents?' The man said, 'Yes!' The Prophet (S) said, 'Then strive by serving them!'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari #5972)

Yet another man asked the Messenger of Allah (S):

"'What kind of jihad is better?' He replied, 'A word of truth in front of an oppressive ruler!'" (Sunan Al-Nasa'i #4209)

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "...the MUJAHID (one who carries out jihad) is he who STRIVES against himself for the sake of Allah, and the MUHAJIR (one who emigrates) is he who abandons evil deeds and sin." (Sahih Ibn Hibban #4862)

5. HAVING COURAGE AND STEADFASTNESS TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM:

The Qur'an narrates the experiences of a large number of Prophets and good people who suffered a great deal trying to convey the message of Allah to mankind. For examples, see the Qur'an 26:1-190, 36:13-32. In the Qur'an, Allah specifically praises those who strive to convey His message:

"Who is better in speech than one who calls (other people) to Allah, works righteous, and declares that he is from the Muslims." (41:33)

Under adverse conditions it takes great courage to remain a Muslim, declare oneself to be a Muslim and call others to Islam. We read in the Qur'an:

"The (true) believers are only those who believe in Allah and his messenger and afterward doubt not, but STRIVE with their wealth and their selves for the cause of Allah. Such are the truthful." (49:15)

6. DEFENDING ISLAM AND THE COMMUNITY:

Allah declares in the Qur'an:

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'..." (22:39-40)

The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self-defense and for the protection of family and property. The early Muslims fought many battles against their enemies under the leadership of the Prophet Muhammad (S) or his representatives. For example, when the pagans of Quraysh brought armies against Prophet Muhammad (S), the Muslims fought to defend their faith and community (3). The Qur'an adds:

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ...And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." (2:190, 193)

7. HELPING ALLIED PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT BE MUSLIM:

In the late period of the Prophet Muhammad's (S) life, the tribe of Banu Khuza'ah became his ally. They were living near Makkah which was under the rule of the pagan Quraysh, Prophet Muhammad's (S) own tribe. The tribe of Banu Bakr, an ally of Quraysh, with the help of some elements of Quraysh, attacked Banu Khuza'ah invoked the treaty and demanded Prophet Muhammad (S) to come to their help and punish Quraysh. The Prophet Muhammad (S) organized a campaign against Quraysh of Makkah which resulted in the conquest of Makkah which occurred without any battle (4).

8. BANISHING THOSE WHO ACT TREACHEROUSLY:

Allah orders the Muslims in the Qur'an:

"If you fear treachery from any group, throw back (their treaty) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms. Lo! Allah loves not the treacherous." (8:58)

Prophet Muhammad (S) undertook a number of armed campaigns to remove treacherous people from power and their lodgings. He had entered into pacts with several Jewish tribes, however, some of them proved themselves treacherous. Prophet Muhammad (S) launched armed campaigns against these tribes, defeated and exiled them from Medina and its surroundings (5).

9. DEFENDING THROUGH PREEMPTIVE STRIKES:

Indeed, it is difficult to mobilize people to fight when they see no invaders in their territory; however, those who are charged with responsibility see dangers ahead of time and must provide leadership. The Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (S), had the responsibility to protect his people and the religion he established in Arabia. Whenever he received intelligence reports about enemies gathering near his borders he carried out preemptive strikes, broke their power and dispersed them (6). Allah ordered Muslims in the Qur'an:

"Fighting is prescribed upon you, and you dislike it. But it may happen that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. And Allah knows and you know not." (2:216)

10. GAINING FREEDOM TO INFORM, EDUCATE AND CONVEY THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM IN AN OPEN AND FREE ENVIRONMENT:

Allah declares in the Qur'an:

"They ask you (Muhammad) concerning fighting in the Sacred Month. Say, 'Fighting therein is a grave (offense) but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its inhabitants. Persecution is worse than killing. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith, if they can..." (2:217)

"And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) fight back." (42:39)

To gain this freedom, Prophet Muhammad (S) said:

"STRIVE (JAHIDU) against the disbelievers with your hands and tongues." (Sahih Ibn Hibban #4708)

The life of the Prophet Muhammad (S) was full of STRIVING to gain the freedom to inform and convey the message of Islam. During his stay in Makkah he used non-violent methods and after the establishment of his government in Madinah, by the permission of Allah, he used armed struggle against his enemies whenever he found it inevitable.

11. FREEING PEOPLE FROM TYRANNY:

Allah admonishes Muslims in the Qur'an:

"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? - Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You, one who will protect; and raise for us from You, one who will help.'" (4:75)

The mission of the Prophet Muhammad (S) was to free people from tyranny and exploitation by oppressive systems. Once free, individuals in the society were then free to chose Islam or not. Prophet Muhammad's (S) successors continued in his footsteps and went to help oppressed people. For example, after the repeated call by the oppressed people of Spain to the Muslims for help, Spain was liberated by Muslim forces and the tyrant rulers removed. After the conquest of Syria and Iraq by the Muslims, the Christian population of Hims reportedly said to the Muslims:

"We like your rule and justice far better than the state of oppression and tyranny under which we have been living." (7)

The defeated rulers of Syria were Roman Christians, and Iraq was ruled by Zoarastrian Persians.

WHAT SHOULD MUSLIMS DO WHEN THEY ARE VICTORIOUS?

Muslims should remove tyranny, treachery, bigotry, and ignorance and replace them with justice and equity. We should provide truthful knowledge and free people from the bondage of 'associationism' (SHIRK, or multiple gods), prejudice, superstition and mythology. Muslims remove immorality, fear, crime, exploitation and replace them with divine morality, peace and education. The Qur'an declares:

"Lo! Allah commands you that you restore deposits to their owners, and if you judge between mankind that you judge justly. Lo! It is proper that Allah admonishes you. Lo! Allah is ever Hearer, Seer." (4:58)

"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah's witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety and fear Allah. And Allah is well acquainted with all that you do." (5:8)

"And of those whom We have created there is a nation who guides with the Truth and establishes justice with it." (7:181)

"Lo! Allah enjoins justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbids lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhorts you in order that you may take heed." (16:90)

"Those who, if We give them power in the land, establish prescribed prayers (SALAH) and pay the poor-due (ZAKAH) and enjoin right conduct and forbid evil. And with Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs." (22:41)

DID ISLAM SPREAD BY FORCE, SWORDS OR GUNS?

The unequivocal and emphatic answer is NO! The Qur'an declares:

"Let there be no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error." (2:256)

Here is a good study of the question of the spread of Islam by a Christian missionary, T. W. Arnold:

"...of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism penal in France, or the Jews were kept out of England for 350 years. The Eastern Churches in Asia were entirely cut off from communion with the rest of Christiandom throughout which no one would have been found to lift a finger on their behalf, as heretical communions. So that the very survival of these Churches to the present day is a strong proof of the generally tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them" (8).

Islam does not teach, nor do Muslims desire, conversion of any people for fear, greed, marriage or any other form of coercion.

In conclusion, jihad in Islam is STRIVING IN THE WAY OF ALLAH by pen, tongue, hand, media and, if inevitable, with arms. However, jihad in Islam does not include striving for individual or national power, dominance, glory, wealth, prestige or pride.

http://www.thetruereligion.org/jihad.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if all of the above is true and being followed then why is Christianity forbidden from being practiced in Saudi Arabia? And why are Christians being persecuted in Islamic countries? I've asked this question to several people and so far it hasn't been answered. If anyone can help me answer this I'd greatly appreciate it.

check this website out

http://www.alleanzacattolica.org/acs/acs_english/acs_index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by homersimpson

if all of the above is true and being followed then why is Christianity forbidden from being practiced in Saudi Arabia? And why are Christians being persecuted in Islamic countries? I've asked this question to several people and so far it hasn't been answered. If anyone can help me answer this I'd greatly appreciate it.

freedom of religion is still a very recent concept....the US still hasnt gotten it sorted out just yet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by homersimpson

if all of the above is true and being followed then why is Christianity forbidden from being practiced in Saudi Arabia? And why are Christians being persecuted in Islamic countries? I've asked this question to several people and so far it hasn't been answered. If anyone can help me answer this I'd greatly appreciate it.

check this website out

http://www.alleanzacattolica.org/acs/acs_english/acs_index.htm

you don't see christians, maronites, or other groups being persecuted in lebanon and egypt, and they have large muslim populations too, people tend to confuse culture with religion, and in this instance, saudi arabia has a fucked up culture. they don't allow women to appear in public without being covered, plus not allowing them to drive. nowhere in islam does it say women are supposed to look and be treated that way. it's the macho shitheads in SA that have this issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by homersimpson

if all of the above is true and being followed then why is Christianity forbidden from being practiced in Saudi Arabia? And why are Christians being persecuted in Islamic countries? I've asked this question to several people and so far it hasn't been answered. If anyone can help me answer this I'd greatly appreciate it.

check this website out

http://www.alleanzacattolica.org/acs/acs_english/acs_index.htm

Alright well look. All of what Sassa described is true, but that doesn't mean everybody follows their religion 100%. The Saudis are strict fundamentalists, who take there beliefs too far sometimes. Everybody everywhere is persecuted because of their beliefs. Muslims are severely persecuted in India everyday because of thier clash with Hindus, yet Hinduism teaches not to hurt anybody or anything and preaches non-violence. Another example, people in this country are far from religious. The U.S. being a Christian country, Christianity also teaches women to dress moderatley and pre-marital sex is forbidden....yet we have strip clubs, playboy magazines, pornos....etc, etc......all I'm trying to say is that people don't follow thier religion the way they are suppose to, they mold and shape their religious beliefs into the type of lifestyle they want to live.

Take me for an example, I try to stay true to the major beliefs and try to stay away from the major sins, but I have a girlfriend, which is forbidden in Islam and Christanity and Judaism. I don't pray five times a day either.

One has to realize that one can be a good person and still be a bad Muslim, Christian, Jew....etc.

And if you don't believe me or Sassa, you can pick up an English version of the Q'uran and read it yourself so you can decide for yourself whether it is true or not.

Peace,

-XeNo-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think americans in general mis understand islam as a religion, and mistunderstand the politics and the current situation the mid east is in. one of the visiting professors at my college noted how outsiders, who have never been acquainted with Chrisitanity, might view the relligion when looking at a limp Jesus, hung from a cross. "Well this religion is for barbarians" they may say after the first intial reaction, "Look, they hang people on sticks with nails"

there is always an element of misunderstanding between civizations. Islam, as Thomas Fridman said, considers itself God 3.0, where as Christianity and Judaism is God 2.0 and God 1.0 respectively. many young muslims cant understand why people living in countries with God 1.0 and God 2.0 are living better, healthier and more productive lives that those where theres God 3.0. the issue isnt the religoin, the issue is basic social freedoms, liberalist values, and a much needed Arab renaissance. good luck with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by tribal

there is always an element of misunderstanding between civizations. Islam, as Thomas Fridman said, considers itself God 3.0, where as Christianity and Judaism is God 2.0 and God 1.0 respectively. many young muslims cant understand why people living in countries with God 1.0 and God 2.0 are living better, healthier and more productive lives that those where theres God 3.0. the issue isnt the religoin, the issue is basic social freedoms, liberalist values, and a much needed Arab renaissance. good luck with that.

is this why devoted christians in south america, africa, and asia are starving and dying, while there are billionaire muslims in saudi arabia who only need to move their pinky and they can have anything they want? don't generalize, please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I'm glad we were all able to have an intelligent debate over this instead of the usual name calling that usually follows. Just for the record I'm not religious at all. But I just see it as a shame that the Saudi government can't be more tolerant of other people. Since they have a lot of clout in the Islamic world they could really help out by reforming their government but I honestly don't think there's not much chance of that happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by homersimpson

OK, I'm glad we were all able to have an intelligent debate over this instead of the usual name calling that usually follows. Just for the record I'm not religious at all. But I just see it as a shame that the Saudi government can't be more tolerant of other people. Since they have a lot of clout in the Islamic world they could really help out by reforming their government but I honestly don't think there's not much chance of that happening.

that's because money has corrupted them...there are over 50,000 royals in saudi arabia, most of whom are filthy rich, you would think they would be helping the rest of their supposed Muslim brothers, but they don't give a fuck...no one does when they've risen to a certain level of power and fame...look at all, if not most, politicians in the world, this would definitely go for them, ie. Bush, Chirac, Marcos, Mugabe, Sana, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by homersimpson

OK, I'm glad we were all able to have an intelligent debate over this instead of the usual name calling that usually follows.

maybe because a certain member isn't around to post? :idea:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by sassa

that's because money has corrupted them...there are over 50,000 royals in saudi arabia, most of whom are filthy rich, you would think they would be helping the rest of their supposed Muslim brothers, but they don't give a fuck...no one does when they've risen to a certain level of power and fame...look at all, if not most, politicians in the world, this would definitely go for them, ie. Bush, Chirac, Marcos, Mugabe, Sana, etc.

Also, generally speaking Muslims haven't really had a love affair for each other which ends up severely hurting them.....

-XeNo-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot to add one point....It's interesting the way things go down.

Iraq goes to war with Iran for ten years (two muslim countries fighting, I don't know why), Sadaam is still in power but the U.S. supports him in fighting Iran.

Saddaam then ivades Kuwait (another Muslim country) for what I don't know? Sadaam apparently really hates Shites......the man is loony but I still don't support a war against him.

The U.S. helps Afghanistan fight the USSR, but recently bombs the shit out of them in the war on terror.

Israel has ignored and defied U.N. resolutions and International law for over 30 years and everybody is cool with it.

Iraq defies U.N. resolutions for 12 years, most of which are killing up to 5,000 children every month and everyone wants to go to war.

-XeNo-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by djxeno

Forgot to add one point....It's interesting the way things go down.

Iraq goes to war with Iran for ten years (two muslim countries fighting, I don't know why), Sadaam is still in power but the U.S. supports him in fighting Iran.

Saddaam then ivades Kuwait (another Muslim country) for what I don't know? Sadaam apparently really hates Shites......the man is loony but I still don't support a war against him.

The U.S. helps Afghanistan fight the USSR, but recently bombs the shit out of them in the war on terror.

Israel has ignored and defied U.N. resolutions and International law for over 30 years and everybody is cool with it.

Iraq defies U.N. resolutions for 12 years, most of which are killing up to 5,000 children every month and everyone wants to go to war.

-XeNo-

Ummm the correlations you draw are a bit skewed and frankly dishonest....

If you're referring the ocupation of the west bank and Gaza as Isreals defiance.. I would have to say you're not looking at the causes of the defiance.. Those territories were spoils of war.. a war which syria Jordan and egypt started.. And Isreal won.. pure and simple you don't award the Victor with nothing for his trouble

pure and simple the palestinian people and most of the people in middle eastern countries were duped pure and simple..

so saying that Isreal defying The UN is the same as saddam defying the UN is bullshit...

saddam willingly is killing his people and murdering them..

people get hurt by the isreali army because they attack them and throw bottles and stones because they got thier lands taken from the because of thier own ignorance and stupidity... the palestians can choose not to throw rocks shoot guns and commit acts of terror.. to avoid retaliation and retribution... the people saddam kills don't have a choice they are being killed for being who they are Peacefully..

you're comparison is plain wrong and grossly irresponsible..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by siceone

so saying that Isreal defying The UN is the same as saddam defying the UN is bullshit...

saddam willingly is killing his people and murdering them..

..

Resolutions are resolutions, and their both being defied, who cares about the causes if the U.N is suppose to have the final say? Ok so you say that sadaam is willlingly killing his peaceful people, since when has the U.S. GOVERNMENT cared about justice and foreign civilians?

...if they did they would help both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict....

Don't you think it's hypocritical to let Israel defy 30 years of International Law and have Iraq bombed because of thier sanctions? I sure do.....

The Israeli army is willingly killing palestinian civilians also.....please lets not get into an Israeli/Palestinian debate because I have been throught that many times on this board....

-XeNo-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by djxeno

Resolutions are resolutions, and their both being defied, who cares about the causes if the U.N is suppose to have the final say? Ok so you say that sadaam is willlingly killing his peaceful people, since when has the U.S. GOVERNMENT cared about justice and foreign civilians?

...if they did they would help both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict....

Don't you think it's hypocritical to let Israel defy 30 years of International Law and have Iraq bombed because of thier sanctions? I sure do.....

The Israeli army is willingly killing palestinian civilians also.....please lets not get into an Israeli/Palestinian debate because I have been throught that many times on this board....

-XeNo-

you cannot compare murder to protest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by siceone

you cannot compare murder to protest

I will say it again.....

The man violated 16 U.N resolutions

+

Gassed his own people.

+

Would not think twice if he had a dirty bomb to give to a finatic lunatic to detonate in a subway during rush hour.

+

The U.N has become soft and cannot execute it's demands...

==============================================

He has to go!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

first id like to say, homersimpson you are right, it is nice to see a thread without all the name calling.

as for the whole religion thing, i think its very unsafe to judge a religion without being a part of it yourself. im a catholic, or at least i was... ne way, i cant say i fully understand the Bible myself, let alone the Quran. I do know that the Bible did not say that catholics should go on the crusades, the bible did not say that homosexuals are evil and should be persecuted, the bible does not say to send money to televangelist on tv. point is we really have to distinguish between those who practice religion, and those who do things in the name of religion. BIG DIFFERENCE.

I am not muslim but i do not believe that any form of "terrorist" movement is encouraged by Islam. The whole jihad thing makes sense. Everyday here in america there is a jihad. All the youths that die on the streets, poor, with no hope, no job no money, they live it. Only we call it the struggle, not the jihad. So what do you know about the struggle. We only struggle cuz someones trying to hold us down. But life finds a way, life always finds a way...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by bigmahs

I will say it again.....

The man violated 16 U.N resolutions

+

Gassed his own people.

+

Would not think twice if he had a dirty bomb to give to a finatic lunatic to detonate in a subway during rush hour.

+

The U.N has become soft and cannot execute it's demands...

==============================================

He has to go!!!

Violation of U.N. resolutions is a concern, but not an imminent reason for war.

Even if he did gas his own people, thats no concern of the United States. How many non-whites are killed in the U.S. everyday by police or corrections officers? Happens quite a bit, but Iraq isn't about to attack the u.s. because bush kills his own people.

The fact that someone can or may break a law does not mean that they can be arrested for it. If i am about to assault someone, i cant get arrested till i do it. if american citizens were so worried about the subway being bombed we could spend the money more efficiently on subway security, bomb sniffing dogs, metal detectors etc. Dont say thats why Saddam has to be taken out. During clintons administration dont you think saddam could have attacked us.

If he has to go, why do we have to be the ones to make sure he does?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony,

Let me ask you why? why is people don't want to get rid of him? Can't you envision the world a better place with out wackos like him.

Why does it have to come to that detectors, bomb sniffing dogs why should Americans have to change or dilute their freedom because we decided to become defensive when actually premptive strike is the only way to cut this cancer out that pollutes HUMAN civilization.

Tony and to answer how can we arrest someone before they do something let me ask you do you think Osama bin laden should have been arrested on Sept 10th??

He didn't attack us during the Clinton Administration because he did not have them but a Taha Yasin Ramadan is known to have

Al Qeada ties and We are interested in him because he is reported to have entertained Osama Bin Laden's deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri in Baghdad in 1998.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bush does not give a fuck about Iraqi civilians.....there is always a hidden agenda to the U.S's actions. In Afghanistan, it's the pipeline, and in this case it's the same, more oil for the U.S.

Also, I think Bush also wants to go to war with Sadaam on a personal level, because Sadaam tried to assassinate Bush Sr. when he was in office.

There are alot more issues at home we have to deal with before we start fuckin around with other ppl, the most important being that we haven't even captured Osama Bin Laden.

-XeNo-

http://www.internationalanswer.org

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by bigmahs

Tony,

Let me ask you why? why is people don't want to get rid of him? Can't you envision the world a better place with out wackos like him.

Why does it have to come to that detectors, bomb sniffing dogs why should Americans have to change or dilute their freedom because we decided to become defensive when actually premptive strike is the only way to cut this cancer out that pollutes HUMAN civilization.

Tony and to answer how can we arrest someone before they do something let me ask you do you think Osama bin laden should have been arrested on Sept 10th??

He didn't attack us during the Clinton Administration because he did not have them but a Taha Yasin Ramadan is known to have

Al Qeada ties and We are interested in him because he is reported to have entertained Osama Bin Laden's deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri in Baghdad in 1998.

Simple answer as to why, its called ethics. So because some view this man as a POSSIBLE threat we should go to war? The senate hasn't even said we should go to war yet, im all for justice, but don't jump the gun. An as for cleaning the human race of its "cancer", im pretty sure thats the idea Hitler had too, by killing the non-aryan people that pollute the human race. Sorry but genocide aint my bag baby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dilike the prospect of war as much as most people do. The last thing i want to see is the young men and women of this country marching off to some god forbidden country to die or watching innocent Iragi civilians being pulverized by comventional weapons. But the fact that Saddam, thought he has no done anything yet, is possible of creating weapons of mass destruction and selling it to the highest bidder. I personally don't want to wait for the smoking gun. he is a threat that must be dealt with. I would like to see the UN grow a set of brass balls and deal with him diplomatically, but to be honest I don't think they will or can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by t0nythelover

Simple answer as to why, its called ethics. So because some view this man as a POSSIBLE threat we should go to war? The senate hasn't even said we should go to war yet, im all for justice, but don't jump the gun. An as for cleaning the human race of its "cancer", im pretty sure thats the idea Hitler had too, by killing the non-aryan people that pollute the human race. Sorry but genocide aint my bag baby.

Genocide???? How is removing a regime that is threat to the whole world especially the U.S genocide. Look the U.S. is the most powerful nation in the world and the clinton administaration left us looking weak so I say let's flex this muscle let's show our leaning forward attitude let's bring it to them before they hurt us. Tony what do you think of the Iraqi intelligence officer meeting with Al Qaeda on two occasions prior to Sept 11th????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×