Why The Fuck Do We Support Israel?

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by dnice35

Sure why not. then lets cut-off all their aide as well. Puerto Rico is not the issue by the way, And so you know, Puerto Ricans should be more than happy that they are multi-citizens.

puerto ricans should be happy that the navy bombs their land and kills civilians without remorse? yeah, thats why american political leaders protest that as well. puerto ricans pay taxes just like the rest of the country, yet they only get one representative who doesnt have a vote in congress, they should be happy about that? what aid does puerto rico get? the island has been raped by americans since they first invaded and took over. multi-citizens, yeah and im sure the hawaiins were happy when they were conquered too right. and the chinese were glad the british took over and made them sell opium. thats why the boxer rebellion happened. sorry but i dont buy into the"white mans burden" argument, and i dont think any country would be glad that a larger imperialistic power invades and takes over. what a joke. are americans really that ethnocentric? im sure as hell not.

puerto rico is not the issue but america's pointless interference with international affairs is. and the united states does not create foreign policy for anyones good or because its right, just because its profitable and can be done. like roosevelt said, speak soft and carry a big stick. well whats gonna happen when the stick breaks?

[dnice35]

puerto rico is not the issue but america's pointless interference with international affairs is. and the united states does not create foreign policy for anyones good or because its right, just because its profitable and can be done. like roosevelt said, speak soft and carry a big stick. well whats gonna happen when the stick breaks?

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by dnice35

puerto rico is not the issue but america's pointless interference with international affairs is. and the united states does not create foreign policy for anyones good or because its right, just because its profitable and can be done. like roosevelt said, speak soft and carry a big stick. well whats gonna happen when the stick breaks?

Good point, doenst necessarly mean I agree with it, but it was well said.

By the way "what happens when the stick breaks?"

We buy a new one with Iraqs oil.....

Ok sorry bout that I'm just being an ass.

[dnice35]

you might just be joking but what scares me is that your joke seems to be the actual logic of the bush administration. dont get me wrong i love this country and i think that those responsible for 9/11 should pay, but i feel the war on terrorism is over and the war in iraq is just a way to get peoples minds off the war on terrorism. i feel that osama won. he accomplished what he wanted and got away with it basically. bush is not accepting the fact that he hasnt and wont catch osama, so he replaces him with hussein. the us economy is fucked, americans died, and osama is in a cave somewhere laughing. it makes me angry. i feel that if we had a more effective leader not only would we be able to find those responsible but we would be able to diplomatically enforce any programs we need to win the war against terrorism. condoleeza rice and bush have said that they urge their "freedom loving" allies in europe to increase their arms and military power. have we forgotten the lessons of the past century already? ww1 and ww2 were bad enough, why do we need another arms race?

[bigmahs]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

puerto ricans should be happy that the navy bombs their land and kills civilians without remorse? yeah, thats why american political leaders protest that as well. puerto ricans pay taxes just like the rest of the country, yet they only get one representative who doesnt have a vote in congress, they should be happy about that? what aid does puerto rico get? the island has been raped by americans since they first invaded and took over. multi-citizens, yeah and im sure the hawaiins were happy when they were conquered too right. and the chinese were glad the british took over and made them sell opium. thats why the boxer rebellion happened. sorry but i dont buy into the"white mans burden" argument, and i dont think any country would be glad that a larger imperialistic power invades and takes over. what a joke. are americans really that ethnocentric? im sure as hell not.

Tony,

I traveled to Puerto Rico in the summer and have to say it's a beautiful place but to say that they don't receive aid from us is a farse as well as rediculous. Tony the bombing of the Island are done as excercises and innocent civilians are not hurt and bombed in the streets like enemies. The beef the Puerto Rican people have is the after effect from the bombing they are claiming to cause diseases on the Island but I doubt it. The politicians that protested in P.R like everyones fav, Al I sold Coke

in the 70's got caught and blamed racism Sharpton did it to draw hispanic votes in the States do you thinK he gives a shit no. Puerto Rico is a common wealth of the U.S not a state that's why they don't have representation in Congress.

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by bigmahs

Originally posted by t0nythelover

puerto ricans should be happy that the navy bombs their land and kills civilians without remorse? yeah, thats why american political leaders protest that as well. puerto ricans pay taxes just like the rest of the country, yet they only get one representative who doesnt have a vote in congress, they should be happy about that? what aid does puerto rico get? the island has been raped by americans since they first invaded and took over. multi-citizens, yeah and im sure the hawaiins were happy when they were conquered too right. and the chinese were glad the british took over and made them sell opium. thats why the boxer rebellion happened. sorry but i dont buy into the"white mans burden" argument, and i dont think any country would be glad that a larger imperialistic power invades and takes over. what a joke. are americans really that ethnocentric? im sure as hell not.

Tony,

I traveled to Puerto Rico in the summer and have to say it's a beautiful place but to say that they don't receive aid from us is a farse as well as rediculous. Tony the bombing of the Island are done as excercises and innocent civilians are not hurt and bombed in the streets like enemies. The beef the Puerto Rican people have is the after effect from the bombing they are claiming to cause diseases on the Island but I doubt it. The politicians that protested in P.R like everyones fav, Al I sold Coke

in the 70's got caught and blamed racism Sharpton did it to draw hispanic votes in the States do you thinK he gives a shit no. Puerto Rico is a common wealth of the U.S not a state that's why they don't have representation in Congress.

Um...going to puerto rico does not make you an expert, and thanx for telling me what my beef is and what the beef of my people is because you would know better than me. You are 100% wrong when you say that no innocent civilians are killed. The navy has "mistakenly" bombed homes of puerto rican citizens. Imagine being bombed in you own home for no reason, im sure if it happened on the continental united states there would be hell to pay. As for the politicians who went there, alot more people than al sharpton have gone and even protested here in nyc, but being the expert on puerto rican issues that you are you somehow missed that. bottomline is the us should not tax puerto rico if it doesnt get representation. as for the "aid", you should think about how the us has stolen "rich port", so we'll invade steal everything bomb your homes and tax you then when we take responsibility well call it aid and expect you to thank us. fuck that.

as for bush looking for osama himself, he doesnt have to do that, my point is that he just gave up completely and is trying to keep americans from noticing by faking some huge emergency in iraq that is more important. well i dont have a short memory and i can see right through this whole iraq war.

for all those that disagree with what i say all i can tell you is rather than disagree with me just express your oppinion by voting in november, i will. dont forget to register if u havent already.

[tribal]

People from NY more than anyone in this country should be aligned with my opinion. THE MAIN REASON THE US WAS ATTACKED ON 9-11 WAS BECAUSE WE UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT ISRAEL.

this is the worst, biggest load of horseshit ever. this rates with the common arab gossip that 400 jews stayed home from work that day.

fact #1: for the brainless who actually believe this drivel. the US was attacked by al qada primarily because al qada feels that the presence of US troops on Saudi soil is embarrasing to them. the racist muslim nazis that al qada are, they want to establish a world wide caliphate, and see US/UK/Israel as barriers to their bright future a-la-taliban

israel is fighting is own war, which has nothing to do with US foreign policy. the state dept. what a fucking joke. bassboy, the state dept has absolutely zero credibility, after the disgusting reports that they published. its funny how 'troubled' they are when a group of palst. gunmen open fire behind a line of civilans and innocent palst die in cross fire, yet the glorious state dept, never seems to be troubled when israeli civilians are blown up, when they get shot at, simply for going to work. ohh, its ok, because they dont deserve to live there right?

becuase every other country deserves to be where they are, yet israel doesnt. why arent people concerned about the syrian occupation of lebanon? or the chinese occupation of tibet? or the iraqi occupation of kurdish areas? or dozens of other conflicts?? fucking europeans and this shit department demonize israel at every turn, a nation that has more right than anyone to be there, after all the wars, the slaughter, the terrible history of jews in europe. fuck the european left, and fuck the state dept, walk a mile in israeli boots, then talk the talk.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

Um...going to puerto rico does not make you an expert, and thanx for telling me what my beef is and what the beef of my people is because you would know better than me. You are 100% wrong when you say that no innocent civilians are killed. The navy has "mistakenly" bombed homes of puerto rican citizens. Imagine being bombed in you own home for no reason, im sure if it happened on the continental united states there would be hell to pay. As for the politicians who went there, alot more people than al sharpton have gone and even protested here in nyc, but being the expert on puerto rican issues that you are you somehow missed that. bottomline is the us should not tax puerto rico if it doesnt get representation. as for the "aid", you should think about how the us has stolen "rich port", so we'll invade steal everything bomb your homes and tax you then when we take responsibility well call it aid and expect you to thank us. fuck that.

Tony what do you mean your people? You have a dominican flag as your icon homie. so how can they be "your" people, when you representing Domin......

as for bush looking for osama himself, he doesnt have to do that, my point is that he just gave up completely and is trying to keep americans from noticing by faking some huge emergency in iraq that is more important. well i dont have a short memory and i can see right through this whole iraq war.

Gave up completly? the man could be dead for all we know. By the way if you havent noticed we did a pretty good job in getting rid of those parasites in afgahnistan.

for all those that disagree with what i say all i can tell you is rather than disagree with me just express your oppinion by voting in november, i will. dont forget to register if u havent already.

I will homie, 4 years ago I might have voted Democrat. Today after seing how weak minded they are. My vote will be all Republican!

[bigmahs]

Good post man.

[dnice35]

You hit on the money Tribal.....

[ou812]

Originally posted by tribal

People from NY more than anyone in this country should be aligned with my opinion. THE MAIN REASON THE US WAS ATTACKED ON 9-11 WAS BECAUSE WE UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT ISRAEL.

this is the worst, biggest load of horseshit ever. this rates with the common arab gossip that 400 jews stayed home from work that day.

Well is it or is it not true that not only did many Jews stay home from work that day, but also sold off tons of their stocks just before it happened.

I'm not saying they caused it....................I'm just saying they knew something.

and don't presume to tell me that that's bullshit....................because everything nowadays is a conspiracy.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by ou812

Well is it or is it not true that not only did many Jews stay home from work that day, but also sold off tons of their stocks just before it happened.

I'm not saying they caused it....................I'm just saying they knew something.

and don't presume to tell me that that's bullshit....................because everything nowadays is a conspiracy.

Maybe we should call Moulder to investigate this...... By the way alot of people that were suppose to be there, stayed home. Hmm maybe they were part of this "conspiracy" too.....

[kramadas]

Originally posted by tribal

People from NY more than anyone in this country should be aligned with my opinion. THE MAIN REASON THE US WAS ATTACKED ON 9-11 WAS BECAUSE WE UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT ISRAEL.

this is the worst, biggest load of horseshit ever. this rates with the common arab gossip that 400 jews stayed home from work that day.

fact #1: for the brainless who actually believe this drivel. the US was attacked by al qada primarily because al qada feels that the presence of US troops on Saudi soil is embarrasing to them. the racist muslim nazis that al qada are, they want to establish a world wide caliphate, and see US/UK/Israel as barriers to their bright future a-la-taliban

israel is fighting is own war, which has nothing to do with US foreign policy. the state dept. what a fucking joke. bassboy, the state dept has absolutely zero credibility, after the disgusting reports that they published. its funny how 'troubled' they are when a group of palst. gunmen open fire behind a line of civilans and innocent palst die in cross fire, yet the glorious state dept, never seems to be troubled when israeli civilians are blown up, when they get shot at, simply for going to work. ohh, its ok, because they dont deserve to live there right?

becuase every other country deserves to be where they are, yet israel doesnt. why arent people concerned about the syrian occupation of lebanon? or the chinese occupation of tibet? or the iraqi occupation of kurdish areas? or dozens of other conflicts?? fucking europeans and this shit department demonize israel at every turn, a nation that has more right than anyone to be there, after all the wars, the slaughter, the terrible history of jews in europe. fuck the european left, and fuck the state dept, walk a mile in israeli boots, then talk the talk.

Still does not give Israel a right to demonize and slaughter the Palestinians. Apparently, the Palestinian economy is near total collapse, thanks to those stupid curfews and roadblocks.

I say let the US withdraw its support and let those fucks sort it out between themselves!

BTW, Tribal, one of the reasons for 9/11 WAS the US support of Israel...watch the bin Laden tapes again.

[dnice35]

BTW, Tribal, one of the reasons for 9/11 WAS the US support of Israel...watch the bin Laden tapes again.

[bassboy]

You made a very eloquent case bro, but I think it is completely wrong.

The # of Palestinian civilian deaths in this conflict outnumbers that of Israeli deaths by 4X. 4X. 4X.

1- I don't agree with the Chinese occupation of Tibet, nor the Iraqi and Turks of the Kurds, and the Syria-Lebanon thing is too complicated to be black or white.

HOWEVER OUR GOV'T DOES NOT SUPPORT THESE OCCUPATIONS, AND IT DOES THE ONE OF ISRAEL. We do so politically, financially... etc.

2- Have you been to Middle East? And I don't mean Israel on a free vacation, but really travelled around? Most people there could give a shit about us having troops in Saudi Arabia, especially as they view the House of Saud to be corrupt and immoral. WHAT THEY ARE PISSED ABOUT however, is the US support of Israel.

I am not saying that Arab nations have done their best to help them out, maybe even the contrary so that they have a living group of Martyrs in the public eye. There is a lot more that they could have done, but that is an entirely different debate.

3- If you want to drag out the terrible suffering of Jews in the past I will only agree with you. HOWEVER, 3 THINGS.

A- Please refer to first post in this thread and my "Green and Blue People" arguement. I would prefer you address that before we start dragging out the arguement about what each group deserves, etc.

A- The Palestinians had nothing to do with any of that, and essentially have become the 2nd round of victims to the Holocaust.

B- IF SUCH A GROUP ("the choosen people"), THAT HAS BEEN PERSECUTED AND SUFFERED SO MUCH, WOULDN'T THEY BE MORE SYPATHETIC TO THE PLIGHT OF OTHERS IN A POSITION OF WEAKNESS THEN?

All that the current situation is showing is that Jews ("the choosen people"), like anyone else are vulnerable to using power against the weak.

YOU INVITE ME TO WALK A DAY IN ISRAELI SHOES? Tribal, I invite you to walk a day in Palestinian shoes, if they even have shoes.

[bassboy]

Excuse the multiple spelling and grammar errors, I am at work and writing in a rush.

[somebitch]

Originally posted by bassboy

1- I don't agree with the Chinese occupation of Tibet, nor the Iraqi and Turks of the Kurds, and the Syria-Lebanon thing is too complicated to be black or white.

HOWEVER OUR GOV'T DOES NOT SUPPORT THESE OCCUPATIONS, AND IT DOES THE ONE OF ISRAEL. We do so , financially... etc.

exactly. this just brings us back the the question, WHY? eveyone has provided arguments but i still dont see the benefits of our support as outweighing the negatives. i hate to sound like a follower of this bassboy character but i really do not understand.

[ou812]

Originally posted by somebitch

exactly. this just brings us back the the question, WHY? eveyone has provided arguments but i still dont see the benefits of our support as outweighing the negatives. i hate to sound like a follower of this bassboy character but i really do not understand.

Well at least you don't have to ponder the notion of whether or not the US's actions are purely philanthropic or altruistic. The US never has anyone but their own best interests in mind, bottom line.

And since this country is indeed run by Jews, then it's not that difficult to put 2 and 2 together to see that the US's best interests are going to align with Israeli best interests.

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by ou812

And since this country is indeed run by Jews, then it's not that difficult to put 2 and 2 together to see that the US's best interests are going to align with Israeli best interests.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

EXACTLY!

[ou812]

truth hurts, i know

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by tribal

People from NY more than anyone in this country should be aligned with my opinion. THE MAIN REASON THE US WAS ATTACKED ON 9-11 WAS BECAUSE WE UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT ISRAEL.

this is the worst, biggest load of horseshit ever. this rates with the common arab gossip that 400 jews stayed home from work that day.

fact #1: for the brainless who actually believe this drivel. the US was attacked by al qada primarily because al qada feels that the presence of US troops on Saudi soil is embarrasing to them. the racist muslim nazis that al qada are, they want to establish a world wide caliphate, and see US/UK/Israel as barriers to their bright future a-la-taliban

israel is fighting is own war, which has nothing to do with US foreign policy. the state dept. what a fucking joke. bassboy, the state dept has absolutely zero credibility, after the disgusting reports that they published. its funny how 'troubled' they are when a group of palst. gunmen open fire behind a line of civilans and innocent palst die in cross fire, yet the glorious state dept, never seems to be troubled when israeli civilians are blown up, when they get shot at, simply for going to work. ohh, its ok, because they dont deserve to live there right?

becuase every other country deserves to be where they are, yet israel doesnt. why arent people concerned about the syrian occupation of lebanon? or the chinese occupation of tibet? or the iraqi occupation of kurdish areas? or dozens of other conflicts?? fucking europeans and this shit department demonize israel at every turn, a nation that has more right than anyone to be there, after all the wars, the slaughter, the terrible history of jews in europe. fuck the european left, and fuck the state dept, walk a mile in israeli boots, then talk the talk.

i have a friend from saudi and ur right about fact number one but i dont think they want a global caliphet, i think they just want the us to stop being involved.

dnice, i am soooo glad to hear that im not the only one who thinks voting is important. we can settle this issue once and for all in november.

i had a post about israel commercials i saw it again. i think the website was www.israel21c.org or something. check it out.

[Evan]

Wow...I really don't know where to even begin. This post is so convoluted with the most ridiculous thoughts and assumptions.

Let me start by saying that I was born Jewish. I do not follow the faith right now, and question the presence of God and all that. Religion, to me, seems to cause more strife than peace. I know people think that if man didn't have faith that there is an afterlife with judgment for his deeds, there would be chaos, but is the resulting conflicts of interest worth it. Religion has been the factor for more wars and strife than anything else. But I digress...

About 4 years ago, I went to Israel for a month. I was expecting to see a bunch of Jews, all being religious and whatnot. What I saw, was a country making huge strides in growth. Most people did not practice their religion. Their only goal was to work hard and be successful. The land was beautiful and clean with a friendly face anywhere. I got lost many times, and could immediately ask for directions. I didn't want to leave.

After that month, I decided to take a tour of Egypt for 3 weeks. Big mistake. I can honestly say, I have never seen a dirtier society in my life. People pissed in the streets. The homes were all dirty and disheveled. There would be one man pissing in a river while a woman 20 feet down the river would be drinking the water, This was in contrast to the governments beautiful buildings. People did not stop harassing me for "baksheesh" (charity). I am not going to even get into women’s rights in a Arab nation. I left feeling ill from what I viewed there,

I decided to do some homework and see what could make a society like that. Here was Israel, with no big export business, making money internally, and this HUGE Arab nation that exported most of the world’s oils. Why was this money not going towards the Arab people. What made them need to decide that they needed Israel's land to make everything better? It was weird that they didn't care about the land until Israel became a nation. They have all this billions of dollars of oil money to spend on military technology. All Israel had was this little help from the US, while the US was sending 100 times that to the Arab nation for their oil. The Israeli's are not fighting a religious war. They don't have the belief that if they kill Arabs they will go to Heaven and be with 70 virgins. They are not being taught to go after Arab youth and kill innocent bystanders on the street. I mean...Use common sense. Who would u trust more? Some fanatic that says God has given him a mission and anyone that doesn't believe in Allah is an infidel, or the person who is trying to make a home and life for themselves in a hostile world. Have you heard of some of the Arab’s laws? Women are killed by their family members when they are raped. Children are taught daily that all non Arabs are evil and shall be cleansed off the Earth. In contrast, there is nothing in the Jewish religion about ridding the land of non believers or such crap.

I could go on, but for those of you who have closed kinds and would not like to see other sides of the story, i can't help you. One thing though is VERY important. Who CARES if Osama attacked America because of their aid to Israel? That doesn't matter. The only thing that is important is that the son of a bitch murdered 2,000 innocent people!!! There is NO reasoning for that. There can NEVER be an excuse for the murder of civilians no matter what one country is doing to one another.

And for all those that have this really great sounding theory abut the Jews who were in on 9/11 who called in sick....... I didn't call in sick. And I witness the horror, was buried alive for 1 hour in rubble, breathed in untold amounts of hazardous toxins, left homeless for two months, as well as have to seek counseling weekly for my nightmares. So, I get pissed off when I hear conspiracy bullshit about Jews not being there. This Jew was. And I will NEVER forget.

Evan

[sassa]

evan...i'm sorry to hear what you've gone through, and i understand your anger, but you cannot generalize all arabs to be a certain way, go to dubai, lebanon in the 1970's, bahrain, tangier, ihrame, casablanca and you will find way different arabs...just as etc...and you will find a much different world than you encountered in egypt...you have to take into consideration that these people have been conditioned to live and think a certain way because they have been trying to regain their land and just live in peace from the israelis for years, but of course like any other country in the world, there are corrupt and self-indulging people who take advantage of their position of power and do things not solely based on a foundation for the goodwill of the people. what does war give anyone? just death, needless millions, if not billions of dollars spent for nothing, we are sacrificing many people's lives, and for what? these bullshit, cutthroat, crooked cat and mouse games that politicians and other sketchy, powerful people play. we are more or less pawns in a global chess game.

i agree with you 100% about israel. i lived there for 4 years, went to a Jewish multicultural high school with Israelis, Bedouins, Druze, Arab, Russian and Ethiopian students. We all got along and there was a great vibe all throughout the country, the people are amazingly warm and friendly. my best friends in the world are norweigan and russian israelis.

my point is, don't blame the people for the bullshit that's going on. blame greedy, sick motherfuckers like saddam hussein, hafez asad, the house of saud, musharraf, etc for this bullshit, considering the fact that just this june the UNDP published a report called the Arab Human Development Report 2002(http://www.undp.org/rbas/ahdr/). right above latin america, it is the poorest region in the world natural resources, education, technology, health, women's rights, etc, etc...how do you expect them to know anything else? how do you expect them to act like the israelis or europeans or americans of this world? because that is what we ultimately want, right? for the middle east to become "westernized"? "democratic? what a fucking joke, this country tries to say it is democratic but that is complete bullshit, and whether anyone really will admit to it or not, the bush family is somewhat of a dynasty in a way, these political families bullshit is the next thing after the mafioso. this country is an oligarchy run by old, balding, white men who have reached the pinnacle of their lives and don't want to let go of it. why would they care that 80% of the world's population is starving, don't have clean water, access to health, etc. we are so lucky and we don't even realize it, here in the western world....what a shame...humanity's problems will never be solved....it's so pessimistic from one sense, but then again it's very realistic...i think at some point the world will just end.....and that's it.

[ou812]

Originally posted by Evan

I could go on, but for those of you who have closed kinds and would not like to see other sides of the story, i can't help you. One thing though is VERY important. Who CARES if Osama attacked America because of their aid to Israel? That doesn't matter. The only thing that is important is that the son of a bitch murdered 2,000 innocent people!!! There is NO reasoning for that. There can NEVER be an excuse for the murder of civilians no matter what one country is doing to one another.

And for all those that have this really great sounding theory abut the Jews who were in on 9/11 who called in sick....... I didn't call in sick. And I witness the horror, was buried alive for 1 hour in rubble, breathed in untold amounts of hazardous toxins, left homeless for two months, as well as have to seek counseling weekly for my nightmares. So, I get pissed off when I hear conspiracy bullshit about Jews not being there. This Jew was. And I will NEVER forget.

Evan

IT sucks that you had to go through that. However, I think the point that people are trying to make when they say that these attacks were as a result of US aid to Israel, is not the point that OK this is an explaination for why these attacks happened, but instead, it's something to consider for the future, for the next madman that comes around with a vendetta against the US for providing aid to Israel, do you understand what I mean.