Should gay marriage be legalized?

[normalnoises]

O'Brien would back gay marriages

Romney camp sees a change in stance

By Rick Klein and Stephanie Ebbert, Globe Staff, 10/16/2002

http://boston.com/dailyglobe2/289/m...arriages+.shtml

Democratic gubernatorial candidate Shannon O'Brien said for the first time yesterday that she supports legalization of gay marriage, and accused Republican Mitt Romney of trying to ''mask a very conservative set of belief systems'' on gay rights and other issues.

After months of championing only civil unions for gay couples - which she deemed a more politically viable step - O'Brien stood with some two dozen gay and lesbian political leaders in front of Old City Hall and said she would support gay marriage if the Legislature approved such a measure.

No state has legalized gay marriage, and O'Brien's remarks put her to the left of most national Democrats. But she stressed she was unlikely to be confronted with a gay marriage bill on her desk if she became governor, and that she would devote her efforts to passage of civil unions.

''I would support a marriage piece of legislation, but I think that the fight needs to focus on civil unions because I think it is one that we can win,'' O'Brien said. Romney, she added, ''mouths the words on a number of occasions to sound like a political moderate. But I don't think he will fight to stand up for people's civil rights. I don't believe that he will fight to stand up for a women's right to choose.''

The focus on gay rights yesterday set off a heated debate, underscoring an ideological divide between the two candidates in a campaign that has emphasized mostly management and noncontroversial issues. The Romney campaign accused O'Brien of changing her position on gay marriage, and Romney touted his own endorsement from the local chapter of the nation's largest group of gay and lesbian Republicans, the Log Cabin Club.

''Shannon O'Brien changes her mind so often that she looks like a weathervane in a hurricane,'' Eric Fehrnstrom, Romney's press secretary, said later in the day. ''It's clear that Shannon O'Brien has no convictions and will say whatever is politically convenient.''

When she entered the race for governor, O'Brien told the Globe she was opposed to gay marriage; her closest rival in the primary, Robert Reich, made headlines in June by endorsing gay marriage, becoming the only Democrat in the field to do so. O'Brien never argued with that characterization, and previously said only that she favors Vermont-style civil unions, which allow gay couples to obtain the benefits of marriage but are not recognized by other states or the federal government. Her campaign did nothing to dispute newspaper accounts that described her opposition.

O'Brien aides said that she has not changed her position, but was simply responding to a reporter's question that had never previously been posed: whether she would sign a gay marriage bill if it reached her desk. That hypothetical situation is so unlikely to occur that O'Brien did not feel it was necessary to mention until she was asked that question directly, they said.

O'Brien spokesman Adrian Durbin also lashed back at Romney, saying the Republican candidate was in no position to defend gay rights, or pick up a gay endorsement, having once called homosexuality perverse, according to four people who heard him give a 1994 address and were cited in a subsequent Globe report.

Romney, a bishop for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints, told more than 200 people at an address to single Mormons in Cambridge that he found homosexuality ''perverse,'' and that he was ''appalled'' by gays in the congregation, according to the account the attendees gave the Globe. Romney later denied using the word ''perverse,'' but said he had advised against nonmarital sex, homosexual or heterosexual, calling it ''an evil in our day.''

Fehrnstrom said O'Brien was bringing up the 1994 story to deflect attention from the fact that she was changing her own stance, and to call attention to Romney's religion.

''To dig up some old disproven allegations that were refuted in order to make a religious smear is unfortunate and intolerant of Shannon O'Brien,'' he said. ''She pledged not to make religion an issue.''

After receiving an additional endorsement from the State Police Association of Massachusetts yesterday, Romney stood outside Faneuil Hall and struck back at O'Brien, saying her allegiance to House Speaker Thomas M. Finneran would prevent her from advancing gay-rights measures. Bills that would extend benefits to the partners of state employees and some municipalities have passed the Senate each of the past three legislative sessions, but have not been taken up by the Finneran-controlled House.

''I think that Shannon O'Brien's support by Tom Finneran suggests that she's got a more difficult road in that regard than I do. I'm going to make sure that those benefits are provided.''

While Romney opposes gay marriage and civil unions, he supports offering domestic partner benefits to public employees - a point that won him the Log Cabin endorsement. But his campaign has also said that any such move must wait until the state can afford it - an uncertain prospect, given the budget crunch and Romney's plan to repeal recent tax increases.

The state Group Insurance Commission estimated last year that offering the benefits would cost between $2.2 million and $7.1 million a year. However, that estimate assumes that partners of heterosexual employees would also be eligible for the benefits.

O'Brien also supports extending benefits to the partners of public employees in Massachusetts. Such benefits are now offered by California, Connecticut, Maine, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington state.

O'Brien also campaigned yesterday with US Senator Joseph Lieberman, a Connecticut Democrat and former vice presidential candidate, who joined her at the Brookline Senior Center.

Rick Klein can be reached at rklein@globe.com.

Stephanie Ebbert can be reached at ebbert@globe.com

This story ran on page A1 of the Boston Globe on 10/16/2002.

© Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company.

[bigpoppanils]

i have yet to see a valid reason why they shouldnt be able to get married

[dnice35]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

i have yet to see a valid reason why they shouldnt be able to get married

Gays just want that for tax purpouses.....

[sassa]

I don't think gay marriages should be legalized.

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by dnice35

Gays just want that for tax purpouses.....

uhhh....so all marraiges are for tax purposes then?

[dnice35]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

uhhh....so all marraiges are for tax purposes then?

Uhhhh why else get married?...lol

Anyways I dont need a fucking judge or anyone for that matter telling me "I pronounce you man and wife". I mean wtf, who are they to "pronounce me married". Marriage is just for the sake of papers, its a man made trap.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by sassa

I don't think gay marriages should be legalized.

thats a pretty close minded view for someone as liberal as yourself sass.... I expect those coments from someone like myself, hmmm I might be rubbing off on you.

[sassa]

Originally posted by dnice35

thats a pretty close minded view for someone as liberal as yourself sass.... I expect those coments from someone like myself, hmmm I might be rubbing off on you.

I'm "liberal" on many issues, and conservative on others. I used to think gay marriages should be legalized, but now I realize that this would harm society even more, especially children. It's not that I really care if a gay couple is married or not, but what kind of examples will we be setting for children? I don't believe the majority of so-called self-proclaimed gay people are actually gay.I also think it has mainly to do with money in this issue. But then again, maybe it's just me.

I think they can have a civil union but not make it legal. That is going too fa.r

[meli2444]

I'M SURE A GAY COUPLE COULD LOVE EACH OTHER AS MUCH AS A STRAIGHT COUPLE. WHY SHOULDN'T THEY BE ABLE TO GET MARRIED? IF TWO PEOPLE WANT TO SPEND THE REST OF THEIR LIVES TOGETHER, WHY SHOULDN'T THEY? MAYBE TO SOME PEOPLE MARRIAGE IS SIMPLY A PIECE OF PAPER, BUT MARRIAGE MEANS ALOT OF THINGS. WHAT IF YOU FOUND THE PERFECT PERSON AND YOU COULDN'T MARRY THEM? I DEFINITELY THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE LEGALIZED.

AS FAR AS OUR CHILDREN, YOU SEE GAY COUPLES IN THE STREET ALL THE TIME. WHAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE IF THEY WERE MARRIED?

JUST MY POINT OF VIEW.

[sugar_n_spice]

Originally posted by sassa

I'm "liberal" on many issues, and conservative on others. I used to think gay marriages should be legalized, but now I realize that this would harm society even more, especially children. It's not that I really care if a gay couple is married or not, but what kind of examples will we be setting for children? I don't believe the majority of so-called self-proclaimed gay people are actually gay.I also think it has mainly to do with money in this issue. But then again, maybe it's just me.

I think they can have a civil union but not make it legal. That is going too fa.r

Harm society? How would it harm society? If anything, I think it's the other way around. Society harming gay couples by denying them a right to be married. They are normal regular people. Just because they choose to live a life others view differntly or wrong, doesn't give anyone a right to say they cannot be married.

And what kind of an example does it send to children? I think it sends a great example-To stand up and be yourself. To fight for what you believe in. It sends an example to be open minded.

Look at some of the other examples parents are setting for their children-Abuse, drugs, alcholism, domestic violence, neglect.

Love between two people is a great example.

So you ask me if gay marriages should be legalized? Yes, I'm behind it 150%.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by sugar_n_spice

Harm society? How would it harm society? If anything, I think it's the other way around. Society harming gay couples by denying them a right to be married. They are normal regular people. Just because they choose to live a life others view differntly or wrong, doesn't give anyone a right to say they cannot be married.

And what kind of an example does it send to children? I think it sends a great example-To stand up and be yourself. To fight for what you believe in. It sends an example to be open minded.

Look at some of the other examples parents are setting for their children-Abuse, drugs, alcholism, domestic violence, neglect.

Love between two people is a great example.

So you ask me if gay marriages should be legalized? Yes, I'm behind it 150%.

It would defenetly harm society, Anal pirating is not moral and I wouldnt like for my kids to have to see that. I mean I have nothing against the sausage smugglers, but whats the big deal about going up infront of a priest (hide the children) and getting his final word for you to think of yourself as married and "happily ever after"? Its just a piece of paper which entitles you to half of the others belongings. why is it necessary, when you will probably end up divorced anyways? Its a man made trap I tell you!!!!!

[sassa]

I'm sorry, I don't think it's right.

I have no problem with gay people living the lives they want to live, hell I have been living with a gay best friend of mine from NYC for over a week now and I couldn't trust another guy friend of mine more. BUT, allowing gay couples to live in society as married couples is wrong. It is not right...maybe I'm a homophob, but I think it will add more to the deterioration of society if it is allowed. What the fuck, now we will allow people to marry animals, houses, and their sisters? Come now...

While we're on this topic, what is the real deal with trannies? If one is born of a certain gender, then they should stay that way. What did people do back in the day before sex-altering surgeries? Did these issues come up? No, because they were not possible and not considered normal.

[sugar_n_spice]

Originally posted by dnice35

It would defenetly harm society, Anal pirating is not moral and I wouldnt like for my kids to have to see that. I mean I have nothing against the sausage smugglers, but whats the big deal about going up infront of a priest (hide the children) and getting his final word for you to think of yourself as married and "happily ever after"? Its just a piece of paper which entitles you to half of the others belongings. why is it necessary, when you will probably end up divorced anyways? Its a man made trap I tell you!!!!!

Not moral. Give me a fuckin break. This is 2002. Not 1902.

For your kids to see what? What is it that you are so afraid you children will see?

To you it is a piece of paper. To other people-maybe it means alot to them and necessary to them.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by sugar_n_spice

Not moral. Give me a fuckin break. This is 2002. Not 1902.

For your kids to see what? What is it that you are so afraid you children will see?

To you it is a piece of paper. To other people-maybe it means alot to them and necessary to them.

Im sorry but there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals, and I would like to keep it that way. If homos.... choose to live that life so be it. But they should respect the wishes of those who would not like their children to see two men kissing. Personally I dont mind seing two women kissing, But I would hate to let my daughter see that.....

[meli2444]

Originally posted by dnice35

It would defenetly harm society, Anal pirating is not moral and I wouldnt like for my kids to have to see that. I mean I have nothing against the sausage smugglers, but whats the big deal about going up infront of a priest (hide the children) and getting his final word for you to think of yourself as married and "happily ever after"? Its just a piece of paper which entitles you to half of the others belongings. why is it necessary, when you will probably end up divorced anyways? Its a man made trap I tell you!!!!!

IT'S NOT JUST A PIECE OF PAPER....HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT! IT'S CALLED COMMITMENT AND WANTING TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE WITH SOMEONE. GETTING MARRIED IN A CHURCH IS HAVING YOUR MARRIAGE BLESSED AND IT MEANS ALOT TO SOME PEOPLE.

YES, ALOT OF PEOPLE GET DIVORCED BUT THAT'S JUST BECAUSE SOMETIMES THINGS DON'T WORK OUT THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO. BUT MARRIAGE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOREVER. IT'S JUST PEOPLE NOW A DAYS DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUS ENOUGH.

AND I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET INTO THE PART OF "A MAN MADE TRAP". THAT'S JUST BULLSHIT.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by meli2444

IT'S NOT JUST A PIECE OF PAPER....HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT! IT'S CALLED COMMITMENT AND WANTING TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE WITH SOMEONE. GETTING MARRIED IN A CHURCH IS HAVING YOUR MARRIAGE BLESSED AND IT MEANS ALOT TO SOME PEOPLE.

YES, ALOT OF PEOPLE GET DIVORCED BUT THAT'S JUST BECAUSE SOMETIMES THINGS DON'T WORK OUT THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TOO. BUT MARRIAGE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOREVER. IT'S JUST PEOPLE NOW A DAYS DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUS ENOUGH.

AND I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET INTO THE PART OF "A MAN MADE TRAP". THAT'S JUST BULLSHIT.

... LOL

You know when I was young I use to believe in marriage too, then again I believe in santa closs. Anyways lets start off with the fact that about 50% of the marriages end up in divorce. You are right though, marriage is suppose to be a life time commitment (In a perfect world). But like the girl up there said its 2002, not 1902. My parents have been married for about 25 years now, But they are from the old school. this is a new era, in which marriages are equivalent to having a bf or gf. Which most of the time ends up in ... well you know how the fairytales these days end up.

[sassa]

Originally posted by dnice35

... LOL

You know when I was young I use to believe in marriage too, then again I believe in santa closs. Anyways lets start off with the fact that about 50% of the marriages end up in divorce. You are right though, marriage is suppose to be a life time commitment (In a perfect world). But like the girl up there said its 2002, not 1902. My parents have been married for about 25 years now, But they are from the old school. this is a new era, in which marriages are equivalent to having a bf or gf. Which most of the time ends up in ... well you know how the fairytales these days end up.

you know, this statistic about 50% (actually it is over 60% now), of marriages ending in divorce is only in the US, not in the rest of the world.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by sassa

you know, this statistic about 50% (actually it is over 60% now), of marriages ending in divorce is only in the US, not in the rest of the world.

So much for happily ever after..........

[meli2444]

Originally posted by dnice35

... LOL

You know when I was young I use to believe in marriage too, then again I believe in santa closs. Anyways lets start off with the fact that about 50% of the marriages end up in divorce. You are right though, marriage is suppose to be a life time commitment (In a perfect world). But like the girl up there said its 2002, not 1902. My parents have been married for about 25 years now, But they are from the old school. this is a new era, in which marriages are equivalent to having a bf or gf. Which most of the time ends up in ... well you know how the fairytales these days end up.

YOUR RIGHT, ABOUT 50% OF MARRIAGES END UP IN DIVORCE BUT THERE'S STILL THAT OTHER 50%. I BELIEVE IF YOU FIND THE RIGHT ONE, IT CAN BE FOREVER. I GUESS THESE DAYS, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO GET MARRIED A FEW TIMES TO FINALLY HIT THE RIGHT ONE. LOL

BUT ANYHOW, ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET MARRIED IF THEY WANT TO. EVEN GAYS....

[dnice35]

Originally posted by meli2444

YOUR RIGHT, ABOUT 50% OF MARRIAGES END UP IN DIVORCE BUT THERE'S STILL THAT OTHER 50%. I BELIEVE IF YOU FIND THE RIGHT ONE, IT CAN BE FOREVER. I GUESS THESE DAYS, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO GET MARRIED A FEW TIMES TO FINALLY HIT THE RIGHT ONE. LOL

BUT ANYHOW, ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET MARRIED IF THEY WANT TO. EVEN GAYS....

They just gonna end up getting divorced..... And if you think that divorces between a man and a woman can get ugly. So imagine two fags going at it. By the way, have you ever seen a fag get mad?

[sugar_n_spice]

Originally posted by dnice35

... LOL

You know when I was young I use to believe in marriage too, then again I believe in santa closs. Anyways lets start off with the fact that about 50% of the marriages end up in divorce. You are right though, marriage is suppose to be a life time commitment (In a perfect world). But like the girl up there said its 2002, not 1902. My parents have been married for about 25 years now, But they are from the old school. this is a new era, in which marriages are equivalent to having a bf or gf. Which most of the time ends up in ... well you know how the fairytales these days end up.

Yes you are right-50% or more do end up in divorce. BUT what about the other 40% that dont? What about the rest that fullfill that lifetime commitment? I dont see marriage as a joke. And it's sad that some people do.

And unfortunetly, people these days DO get married for the wrong reasons.....

[sugar_n_spice]

Originally posted by dnice35

They just gonna end up getting divorced..... And if you think that divorces between a man and a woman can get ugly. So imagine two fags going at it. By the way, have you ever seen a fag get mad?

They just gonna end up getting divorced.....

That is such a shitty outlook.

So imagine two fags going at it. By the way, have you ever seen a fag get mad?

[meli2444]

Originally posted by dnice35

They just gonna end up getting divorced..... And if you think that divorces between a man and a woman can get ugly. So imagine two fags going at it. By the way, have you ever seen a fag get mad?

FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT...YES I HAVE AND IT WAS OUTTA HAND! MY FRIEND WANTED TO LEAVE WITH ME AND LEAVE HIS BOYFRIEND LOCKED UP IN HIS HOUSE AND THEY WENT AT IT AND THERE WAS SHIT FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE. I WANTED TO DIE LAUGHING.

[dnice35]

Originally posted by meli2444

FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT...YES I HAVE AND IT WAS OUTTA HAND! MY FRIEND WANTED TO LEAVE WITH ME AND LEAVE HIS BOYFRIEND LOCKED UP IN HIS HOUSE AND THEY WENT AT IT AND THERE WAS SHIT FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE. I WANTED TO DIE LAUGHING.

So you know what I mean then, Imagine them in a divorce settlement.... OMG imagine them fighting for custody of their pet "fifi" the poodle......

[dgmodel]

i feel the gov't shouldnt be able to tell us what to do when it comes to Marriage and etc... if one is hetero or if one is homo shouldnt make a difference because love is universal...

(same as i dont think the gov't should get involved on the abortion issue either but thats a whole n'other story)