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Can't Argue with Facts

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One Palestinian was killed, 43 detained in Israeli incursion

Palestine-Israel, Military, 12/12/2002

Some 162 Palestinian women, 531 children were killed since the beginning of the Intifada. The Israeli forces yesterday intensified acts of incursion and detention in the towns and villages of the West Bank and Gaza and one Palestinian was shot dead, three wounded and more than 40 were arrested..

The Palestinian news agency said "citizen Hassan Badra ( 23 year old) was shot on Wednesday at dawn by the fire of the Israeli forces in Balata camp of the Palestinian refugees in Nablus." The agency added quoting eye witnesses and security sources that the Israeli forces, backed by armored vehicles, and 'sniffing dogs' broke into al-Hashashin area in the southern quarters of the camp and entered Badra's house and killed him in 'cold blood' at the building's stairs."

The Israeli army said that the Palestinian activist is Osama Badra, 27 years old, and that he was killed when an Israeli force tried to arrest him and then he jumped from one house roof to another trying to escape.

The Israeli army and witnesses said that Badra is a member in the People's Army for the Liberation of Palestine. Palestinians said that he recently became active in the Islamic Jihad movement.

The Israeli army announced it had arrested on Tuesday evening 11 persons suspected to belong to the Islamic Jihad during breaking in operations in the West Bank as well as other 21 suspected to be activists.

Meantime, Palestinian witnesses and a security source said that three Palestinians were wounded yesterday by the bullets of the occupation army near an Israeli military barrier to the south of Gaza. A security source in Rafah said "that an Israeli tank positioned near the border with Egypt yesterday opened heavy machine guns fire at al-Barazil quarters in Rafah camp and this resulted in setting fire in the house of the Palestiniahe Palestinian refugees in Nablus." The agency added quoting eye witnesses and security sources that the Israeli forces, backed by armored vehicles, and 'sniffing dogs' broke into al-Hashashin area in the southern quarters of the camp and entered Badra's house and killed him in 'cold blood' at the building's stairs."

The Israeli army said that the Palestinian activist is Osama Badra, 27 years old, and that he was killed when an Israeli force tried to arrest him and then he jumped from one house roof to another trying to escape.

The Israeli army and witnesses said that Badra is a member in the People's Army for the Liberation of Palestine. Palestinians said that he recently became active in the Islamic Jihad movement.

The Israeli army announced it had arrested on Tuesday evening 11 persons suspected to belong to the Islamic Jihad during breaking in operations in the West Bank as well as other 21 suspected to be activists.

Meantime, Palestinian witnesses and a security source said that three Palestinians were wounded yesterday by the bullets of the occupation army near an Israeli military barrier to the south of Gaza. A security source in Rafah said "that an Israeli tank positioned near the border with Egypt yesterday opened heavy machine guns fire at al-Barazil quarters in Rafah camp and this resulted in setting fire in the house of the Palestinian Muhammad al-Jaafari. The house was destroyed completely."

In another development, the Palestinian health minister Ahmad al-Sheibi yesterday called on the international community, especially the UN, to pressure Israel to stop killing Palestinian children and women. He said that some 162 Palestinian women and 531 children were killed by the Israeli bullets since the beginning of the Palestinian Intifada in September 2000.

He called for "quickly ensuring an international protection for the Palestinian people," stressing that the number of martyred women was 162, while martyred children was 531 for those under 18 year old killed by the Israeli occupation forces in a cold blood." Al-Sheibi explained that 116 of those women and 226 children were killed between the beginning of January this year and the end of November, adding that "those women and children were the victims of the Israeli tanks shells and helicopters missiles and random fire against Palestinian civilians while carrying out daily life and most of the cases while they are sleeping in their houses."

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In another development, the Palestinian health minister Ahmad al-Sheibi yesterday called on the international community, especially the UN, to pressure Israel to stop killing Palestinian children and women. He said that some 162 Palestinian women and 531 children were killed by the Israeli bullets since the beginning of the Palestinian Intifada in September 2000.

I would be sceptical of their numbers....but as always...in war there will be deaths of women and children.....i wonder how many women and children were killed when we were in vietnam....or during WWII.....both side are wrong in my eyes....buy isreal needs to secure it's citizens from terrorist attacks....if bombings never happend isreal would not be killing anybody....kinda like if you punch me in the face.....and then i grab a bat and smash half of your skull in....and then you cry and say waaaahhhaawwhaaaa...:cry: ....i only punched you...well you know what....if you never laid your hands on me you would be fine...but since you did.....you took a beating 10X as worse....thats how i see....

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Originally posted by underwater

I would be sceptical of their numbers....but as always...in war there will be deaths of women and children.....i wonder how many women and children were killed when we were in vietnam....or during WWII.....both side are wrong in my eyes....buy isreal needs to secure it's citizens from terrorist attacks....if bombings never happend isreal would not be killing anybody....kinda like if you punch me in the face.....and then i grab a bat and smash half of your skull in....and then you cry and say waaaahhhaawwhaaaa...:cry: ....i only punched you...well you know what....if you never laid your hands on me you would be fine...but since you did.....you took a beating 10X as worse....thats how i see....

Yep. Don't forget the lies about Jenin.

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You want facts Sassa? Put your propaganda machine on pause for a minute, and think back to true historic events.

1948 - The Jews ACCEPTED the U.N. partition plan, the Arabs didn't and 6 Arab armies silmutaneously attacked the weak Jewish State, and lost. "Palestinians" lost whatever land they had in present day Israel because of their "brothers"

1967 - Arabs started with Israel again, and lost the lands the the Palestinians today claim....and so again they lost their homes because of their "brothers"

1964 - PLO is Established......Today the PLO says they want a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza......surprise surprise, the palestinians are now psychics, because in 1964, they forsaw the events of 1967......bullshit, they are terrorists and want simply to destroy Israel, there is no liberation movement, only an extermination movement.....

When Jordan and Egypt held the West Bank, Gaza, and even East Jerusalem, why did they not give the land to the Palestinians? Why didn't Palestinians blow themselves up in Egyptian and Jordanian schools, buses, and cafes? Why? The Palestinians are simply the Arab world's excuse for another war with Israel, another chance at destroying Israel.

I've noticed that you post when ever a Palestinian is killed by Israeli soldiers, dont you think that maybe if the Palestinians stop with the terrorism, the Israeli soldiers will leave? You think Israeli soldiers want to be in that shithole called gaza running after palestinians who are hoping to blow up those soldiers, and maybe their little brothers or sisters? No way, they'd rather log onto this website, and check out the club scenes in Tel Aviv (if possible) Did you forget Barak's peace proposal? Did you forget the rising Palestinian economy that Israel was supporting two years ago? Did you forget the guns that Israel supplied the Palestinian security forces with, that are now being used on Israeli civilians? Dont erase history and in its place put in this bullshit you constantly cry about. Israel has alot more to cry about in my opinion....the world has been brainwashed into this whole palestinian thing, even palestinians themselves have been brainwashed, and sadly, so have you....

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Originally posted by sababa

You want facts Sassa? Put your propaganda machine on pause for a minute, and think back to true historic events.

1948 - The Jews ACCEPTED the U.N. partition plan, the Arabs didn't and 6 Arab armies silmutaneously attacked the weak Jewish State, and lost. "Palestinians" lost whatever land they had in present day Israel because of their "brothers"

1967 - Arabs started with Israel again, and lost the lands the the Palestinians today claim....and so again they lost their homes because of their "brothers"

1964 - PLO is Established......Today the PLO says they want a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza......surprise surprise, the palestinians are now psychics, because in 1964, they forsaw the events of 1967......bullshit, they are terrorists and want simply to destroy Israel, there is no liberation movement, only an extermination movement.....

When Jordan and Egypt held the West Bank, Gaza, and even East Jerusalem, why did they not give the land to the Palestinians? Why didn't Palestinians blow themselves up in Egyptian and Jordanian schools, buses, and cafes? Why? The Palestinians are simply the Arab world's excuse for another war with Israel, another chance at destroying Israel.

I've noticed that you post when ever a Palestinian is killed by Israeli soldiers, dont you think that maybe if the Palestinians stop with the terrorism, the Israeli soldiers will leave? You think Israeli soldiers want to be in that shithole called gaza running after palestinians who are hoping to blow up those soldiers, and maybe their little brothers or sisters? No way, they'd rather log onto this website, and check out the club scenes in Tel Aviv (if possible) Did you forget Barak's peace proposal? Did you forget the rising Palestinian economy that Israel was supporting two years ago? Did you forget the guns that Israel supplied the Palestinian security forces with, that are now being used on Israeli civilians? Dont erase history and in its place put in this bullshit you constantly cry about. Israel has alot more to cry about in my opinion....the world has been brainwashed into this whole palestinian thing, even palestinians themselves have been brainwashed, and sadly, so have you....

Brainwashed? I was brainwashed living under a government who won't accept me as a citizen because of my religion and nationality. What kind of fucking country would not allow a student to even do an entrance exam to enter an university they have EVERY FUCKING RIGHT to go to due to to their citizenship??? This bullshit happened to me. Is Israel democratic and one of the most stable countries in the region? HELL NO IT IS NOT. Don't try to make this sound like I am parroting the other side. I see what is right and wrong, and I know for a fact after hearing both sides that the Palestinians have more weight to their arguments, but they are not being heard, why? Face it: whether anyone would like to admit to it in person or in writing: this world is run by Jews and Christians. End of story. Asians, Africans, Muslims, Native Americans, etc, anyone who isn't white is basically fucked over. Why is Africa so fucked up? Because the white Europeans went over there, fucked up the population and the land, and left them after they were "forced" to give up their "colonies:. How the hell are you going to expect a group of people who have been screwed over for years by another race to catch up with the modern world, when they have not been allowed to learn or see what it has to offer? I am getting a little off topic here, but your facts are true, BUT you are not telling the whole story...(i wonder why...:rolleyes: ). The Arabs and Jews had an agreement to divide the land, but the Zionists violated this pact and declared independence on May 14, 1948.=current day Israel's "Independence Day." Please give the full deal instead of stupid little bullshit points that I have had drilled into my head going to school in Israel. I KNOW all what you're saying already, but it doesn't add up to why things are shit now. :blown:

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Originally posted by sassa

The Arabs and Jews had an agreement to divide the land, but the Zionists violated this pact and declared independence on May 14, 1948.=current day Israel's "Independence Day."

Specifically, what agreement are you referring to? I'm not familiar with any Arab/Jewish deals and I'd like to look it up in the Library.

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Originally posted by sassa

Brainwashed? I was brainwashed living under a government who won't accept me as a citizen because of my religion and nationality. What kind of fucking country would not allow a student to even do an entrance exam to enter an university they have EVERY FUCKING RIGHT to go to due to to their citizenship???

This is true in many countries, not just Israel. Try being a non-Muslim in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iran, Syria, ect... But, the fact is that Israel does have non-Jewish citizens who have full rights, benefits and vote in elections. There are even non-Jewish elected officials. True there are only a few, but that is more than in the countries I've listed. I don't know your personal deal, but I would not be surprised to learn that your family was probably not born there.

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Originally posted by guyman1966

Specifically, what agreement are you referring to? I'm not familiar with any Arab/Jewish deals and I'd like to look it up in the Library.

The only Arab/Israeli agreement regarding the lands of Israel and the Palestinians is a pre-1948 agreement between an Arab leader and weisman (spelling?), which was a verbal agreement stating that since Arabs and Jews were cousins, the Arabs would help the Jews create a home land in Palestine, as long as the British kept their promise to the Arabs......this didn't happen though.....

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Originally posted by sababa

The only Arab/Israeli agreement regarding the lands of Israel and the Palestinians is a pre-1948 agreement between an Arab leader and weisman (spelling?), which was a verbal agreement stating that since Arabs and Jews were cousins, the Arabs would help the Jews create a home land in Palestine, as long as the British kept their promise to the Arabs......this didn't happen though.....

How "pre-1948" was it? Was this before or after the Balfour (sp?) declaration?

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Originally posted by sassa

Brainwashed? I was brainwashed living under a government who won't accept me as a citizen because of my religion and nationality.

I'm ready to accept any Israeli Arab (if thats what you are) as my brother and fellow Israeli citizen with full rights, as long as they are loyal to Israel, and not a threat to its security, or the security of its citizens, Jews and Arabs alike.

Is Israel democratic and one of the most stable countries in the region? HELL NO IT IS NOT.

Oh right, how stupid of me to leave Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, Kuwait, and Qatar out of the list of Democratic and stable countries in the Middle East.......:rolleyes:

Don't try to make this sound like I am parroting the other side.

I didn't do that, you did......

I see what is right and wrong, and I know for a fact after hearing both sides that the Palestinians have more weight to their arguments

How do a people who have been using terrorism as their main tool, a people from whom 80% support suicide bombings, have more weight to their arguments then their victims? Raja Shehadeh, a Palestinian human rights activist, and lawyer, said it himself. The Arabs made him lose his home twice, not Israel......

The Arabs and Jews had an agreement to divide the land, but the Zionists violated this pact and declared independence on May 14, 1948.=current day Israel's "Independence Day."

Violated the pact? Who the hell are the Arabs and what pact did Israel violate? The Arabs were not willing to accept Israel, and Israel declared independence without their consent, is that such a major violation? And if so, did it provide reason for 6 large and strong Arab nations invade a newly found state with their armies?

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Originally posted by guyman1966

How "pre-1948" was it? Was this before or after the Balfour (sp?) declaration?

After the Balfour declaration, Around the time when the British commited themselves to the Jews, Arabs, and a third party which I forget......

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ah...there was a failed Arab Congress in the time of the British Mandate...after hashing it out for years, the Zionists and Arabs, with British and UN supervision, made an agreement to split the land in two...I cannot remember the name of it,but it does exist...the agreement never came into effect because the Zionist side went ahead and declared independence before it could be executed...

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Originally posted by sababa

I'm ready to accept any Israeli Arab (if thats what you are) as my brother and fellow Israeli citizen with full rights, as long as they are loyal to Israel, and not a threat to its security, or the security of its citizens, Jews and Arabs alike.

i'm not, but thanks....

Oh right, how stupid of me to leave Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, Kuwait, and Qatar out of the list of Democratic and stable countries in the Middle East.......:rolleyes:

i never said they were stable....but israel sure isn't either...

I didn't do that, you did......

.............

How do a people who have been using terrorism as their main tool, a people from whom 80% support suicide bombings, have more weight to their arguments then their victims? Raja Shehadeh, a Palestinian human rights activist, and lawyer, said it himself. The Arabs made him lose his home twice, not Israel......

how else are they supposed to defend themselves? you say terrorism: you don't think what the IDF has done is terrorism? oh wait, it's defending itself against the mean arabs...oops, excuse me, i can't believe i actually thought that they could be committing random acts of senseless "terrorism" :rolleyes: (on a side note, what the hell is terrorism anyways?)

Violated the pact? Who the hell are the Arabs and what pact did Israel violate? The Arabs were not willing to accept Israel, and Israel declared independence without their consent, is that such a major violation? And if so, did it provide reason for 6 large and strong Arab nations invade a newly found state with their armies?

the reason they do not accept them goes way back into history....funny how no one ever brings up the fact that the zionist congress tried to have a "jewish homeland" in several other countries before finally "settling" on israel....this isn't what we're taught in schools...:rolleyes:

did you know they tried to create jewish states in uganda, argentina, etc? they failed...last resort: palestine. the odd thing is, ,many so called jews are not actually jewish in ethnicity...but rather come from a group of mixed aryans called khazars, who adopted judaism more than a millenia ago....so for these people to say that israel/palestine is their homeland is bullshit...their ancestry does not even come from the area...but rather from the steppes of russia and eastern europe...it's all in a history book...open one.....

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Originally posted by sassa

the reason they do not accept them goes way back into history....funny how no one ever brings up the fact that the zionist congress tried to have a "jewish homeland" in several other countries before finally "settling" on israel....this isn't what we're taught in schools...:rolleyes:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In almost every prayer service, is Jerusalem mentioned. I've heard that Uganda was proposed to the Jews as a homeland, but going back to Israel, where the Jews were EXILED from twice in history, was always the Jewish goal, and I dont see how you have the nerve to say otherwise. It is known to everyone except those who choose to live in denial......There's a reason it isn't taught in schools yanno, and no its not the conspiracy theory you're probably fixed on buddy.....

In response to your comments concerning terrorism.....you deserve to either be killed in a blast or severely mangled in one. How the hell can you justify any type of terrorism and live with yourself? You should at least act like Arafat and only speak like that in Arabic, so that most civilized people wouldn't understand you. Yes, they are blowing themselves up for a reason, so did the 9/11 hijackers.....are you going to justify the 9/11 attacks as well? Seriously man, open your mind up alittle bit and stop getting your facts from hammas.com or wherever....

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Originally posted by sababa

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In almost every prayer service, is Jerusalem mentioned. I've heard that Uganda was proposed to the Jews as a homeland, but going back to Israel, where the Jews were EXILED from twice in history, was always the Jewish goal, and I dont see how you have the nerve to say otherwise. It is known to everyone except those who choose to live in denial......There's a reason it isn't taught in schools yanno, and no its not the conspiracy theory you're probably fixed on buddy.....

In response to your comments concerning terrorism.....you deserve to either be killed in a blast or severely mangled in one. How the hell can you justify any type of terrorism and live with yourself? You should at least act like Arafat and only speak like that in Arabic, so that most civilized people wouldn't understand you. Yes, they are blowing themselves up for a reason, so did the 9/11 hijackers.....are you going to justify the 9/11 attacks as well? Seriously man, open your mind up alittle bit and stop getting your facts from hammas.com or wherever....

Run and hide in Canada.

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Originally posted by sababa

In response to your comments concerning terrorism.....you deserve to either be killed in a blast or severely mangled in one. How the hell can you justify any type of terrorism and live with yourself? You should at least act like Arafat and only speak like that in Arabic, so that most civilized people wouldn't understand you. Yes, they are blowing themselves up for a reason, so did the 9/11 hijackers.....are you going to justify the 9/11 attacks as well? Seriously man, open your mind up alittle bit and stop getting your facts from hammas.com or wherever....

thank you for your lovely, sincere comments.

i never said once in anything i wrote that terrorism was justified, if you had the audacity to come up with such a stupid conclusion on your own, i honestly am afraid of what else you might have to think about... so someone who speaks arabic is not civilized? how can someone be so narrow...jews and arabs forget quite often that they come from the same blood it seems.

i have no idea why you make these comments, they have no place with the argument in question and are irrational. come up with something more concrete, "buddy". :rolleyes:

p.s. yes, maybe i would be better off getting killed in a terrorist attack...:blown:

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