£ddie Posted December 30 Report Share Posted December 30 Rangel calls for mandatory military service Monday, December 30, 2002 Posted: 1:46 PM EST (1846 GMT)WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Democratic lawmaker said Sunday he will introduce a bill in the next session of Congress to make military service mandatory. Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York, said such legislation could make members of Congress more reluctant to authorize military action. "I'm going to introduce legislation to have universal military service to let everyone have an opportunity to defend the free world against the threats coming to us," Rangel said on CNN's "Late Edition." "I'm talking about mandatory service." The Korean War veteran has accused the Bush administration and some fellow lawmakers of being too willing to go to war with Iraq. In October, he voted against a joint resolution authorizing military action against Iraq. It passed 296-133 in the House and 77-23 in the Senate. "When you talk about a war, you're talking about ground troops, you're talking about enlisted people, and they don't come from the kids and members of Congress," he said. "I think, if we went home and found out that there were families concerned about their kids going off to war, there would be more cautiousness and a more willingness to work with the international community than to say, 'Our way or the highway.' " Rangel did not provide specifics of his proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted December 30 Report Share Posted December 30 i do agree with the theory......but the US will never have mandatory service... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnice35 Posted December 30 Report Share Posted December 30 I am all for it, its time that some of these ingrates give a little back to this great nation which has given us so much. remember its not what your country can do for you, its what you can do for your country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted December 30 Report Share Posted December 30 our generation is such a bunch of pussies cause we never had to fight in a war.....my grandfather was in WWII and my dad was in Vietnam.....I will be in nothing (not that i'm complaining)....but i'm sure all the smucks on this board would feel differently if they had to be placed on the frontlines and see things as they are....maybe they should drop normalnoises in iraq armed with a blowgun and a pink army uniform....that might change his views a little bit..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnice35 Posted December 30 Report Share Posted December 30 Originally posted by underwater maybe they should drop normalnoises in iraq armed with a blowgun and a pink army uniform....that might change his views a little bit..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted December 31 Report Share Posted December 31 "I do think we need for a troop to be able to house his family.That's an important part of building morale in the military."— G. W. Bushhttp://politics.slate.msn.com/?id=76886 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
£ddie Posted December 31 Author Report Share Posted December 31 Originally posted by underwater i do agree with the theory......but the US will never have mandatory service... I don't think it would happen either, but I think it'd be great for giving some direction to some of the 17 and 18 year olds who are complete fuckups and headed to toward a life of dependency on government handouts and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted December 31 Report Share Posted December 31 i was watching a debate on this last night....and someone had a great point...a smaller more highly trained army...that wants to be there and is paid to be there....is much more valuable then building a large and highly unskilled army that is bitter and would rather be doing anything else then fighting for the army....todays battles and wars are extemely complex and consist of using a lot of technology....a drafted 19 year old would only be good to throw in a fox hole and fight on the front lines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnice35 Posted December 31 Report Share Posted December 31 I would luv to see that kid pull the pin on that grenade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted December 31 Report Share Posted December 31 Originally posted by dnice35 I would luv to see that kid pull the pin on that grenade. ....oh look at us...we are so determined and ruthless our children will fight the uprising....what kind of joke of a culture puts hand grenades in childrens hands?.....just shows how violence dominates their society.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted December 31 Report Share Posted December 31 Originally posted by dnice35 I would luv to see that kid pull the pin on that grenade. And I bet you wold love seeing little 8, 9 and 10 year old kids as well as 80 and 90 year old elderlies in the military too don't you. Hitler did the same thing.The day I get a draft card will be the day I burn it.When the parents of their children wind up getting drafted I bet they will think twice about the war on terrorism and think twice about "Adolph" Bush.I can see his approval rate drop drastically.quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by underwater i do agree with the theory......but the US will never have mandatory service... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------I hope not. Or Bush will wind up going "under-water" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 "In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first." Ambrose Bierce CHARACTER MATTERS The Democratic leadership in the House and Senate: House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt - Served his country in uniform, 1965-71 House Minority Whip David Bonior - Served his country in uniform, 1968-72 Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - Served his country in uniform, 1969-72 President of the Senate Albert Gore - Served his country in uniform, 1969-71 The Republican leadership in the House and Senate: Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve. Majority Leader Dick Armey- avoided the draft, did not serve. Majority Whip Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve. THE CHICKENHAWKS Conservatives make great fun of President Clinton for questioning the Vietnam War, standing up to his beliefs and questioning his own participation in that war as well, i.e., being honest and walking the walk of his own belief system at least for a time. On the other hand there were literally millions of dishonest hypocritical, cowardly right-wing loonies who supported the war while refusing to personally participate. Here are just a few: Elliott Abrams - Sought deferment for bad back. Richard Armey - Sought college deferment, too smart to die. Bill Bennett - Sought graduate school deferment, too smart to die. Pat Buchanan - Sought deferment for bad knee. George W. Bush - Daddy got him in the reserves. Dick Cheney - Sought graduate school deferment, too smart to die. Tom DeLay - - Sought college deferment, too smart to die. Newt Gingrich - Sought graduate school deferment, too smart to die. Phil Gramm - Sought marriage deferment, too loved to die. Jack Kemp - Sought medical deferment while in the NFL. Rush Limbaugh - Sought deferment for ingrown hair follicle on his ass. Trent Lott - Sought deferment, didn't want to muss his hair. P.J. O'Rourke - Sought deferment, too stoned. Dan Quayle - Family got him into the Reserves. Pat Robertson - Father pulled him out of Korea as soon as the shooting began. Kenneth Starr – Sought deferment for psoriasis. John Wayne - Sought deferment to further acting career. Vin Weber - Sought deferment for asthma. George Will - Sought deferment, too much of a wussy. Half the men killed in Vietnam were 18 or younger. Draftees were twice as likely to be killed than enlistees. Only 2% were college graduates. The vast majority of those sent to combat were either minority or poor. The result of the Vietnam War was not only the 58,000 young American boys who died, but 1 million North Vietnamese soldiers, 2 million Vietnamese civilians with over 4 million more wounded. The above mentioned little hypocritical cowards wished then, and still wish today that all those figures were higher. Never forget that we dropped three times as much ordinance on Vietnam as we did in all theaters of war in WW2. So when these little Chickenhawks talk of fighting that war with our hands tied behind our backs, be sure to understand that what they mean is we should have either instituted a full scale ground invasion into North Vietnam with projected other-not me American deaths in the hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, or we should have dropped megaton class hydrogen bombs on major population centers throughout Southeast Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 Originally posted by dnice35 I am all for it, its time that some of these ingrates give a little back to this great nation which has given us so much. remember its not what your country can do for you, its what you can do for your country. But don't you see, if we made it mandatory, more people would be willing to protest war, as opposed to today. Today people just think, "oh, my son's not getting drafted anyway and we're only going after a bunch of towel-heads. I don't care. Let's bomb that country!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braveheart24 Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 i just finshed watching Band of Brothers on DVD and feel that the men that fought for our freedoms are the bravest inthe world ......they were young and in the prime of their lives and felt it was their duty to defend us ..... i do agree with millatry service but feel REP. Rangel is making his charges not because he believes in the draft but.... because he is looking to oppose the war ..... lets face it war is terrible but we cannot reason with a mad man...if we dont learn from history we are doomed to repeat it...we have plenty of troops many of my friends are in the millatry and are shipping out they dont want to but its their duty just my opinon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Originally posted by dnice35 I would luv to see that kid pull the pin on that grenade. I would love to see that kid throw that grenade at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Originally posted by normalnoises "In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first." Ambrose Bierce CHARACTER MATTERS The Democratic leadership in the House and Senate: House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt - Served his country in uniform, 1965-71 House Minority Whip David Bonior - Served his country in uniform, 1968-72 Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - Served his country in uniform, 1969-72 President of the Senate Albert Gore - Served his country in uniform, 1969-71 The Republican leadership in the House and Senate: Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve. Majority Leader Dick Armey- avoided the draft, did not serve. Majority Whip Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve. THE CHICKENHAWKS Conservatives make great fun of President Clinton for questioning the Vietnam War, standing up to his beliefs and questioning his own participation in that war as well, i.e., being honest and walking the walk of his own belief system at least for a time. On the other hand there were literally millions of dishonest hypocritical, cowardly right-wing loonies who supported the war while refusing to personally participate. Here are just a few: Elliott Abrams - Sought deferment for bad back. Richard Armey - Sought college deferment, too smart to die. Bill Bennett - Sought graduate school deferment, too smart to die. Pat Buchanan - Sought deferment for bad knee. George W. Bush - Daddy got him in the reserves. Dick Cheney - Sought graduate school deferment, too smart to die. Tom DeLay - - Sought college deferment, too smart to die. Newt Gingrich - Sought graduate school deferment, too smart to die. Phil Gramm - Sought marriage deferment, too loved to die. Jack Kemp - Sought medical deferment while in the NFL. Rush Limbaugh - Sought deferment for ingrown hair follicle on his ass. Trent Lott - Sought deferment, didn't want to muss his hair. P.J. O'Rourke - Sought deferment, too stoned. Dan Quayle - Family got him into the Reserves. Pat Robertson - Father pulled him out of Korea as soon as the shooting began. Kenneth Starr – Sought deferment for psoriasis. John Wayne - Sought deferment to further acting career. Vin Weber - Sought deferment for asthma. George Will - Sought deferment, too much of a wussy. Half the men killed in Vietnam were 18 or younger. Draftees were twice as likely to be killed than enlistees. Only 2% were college graduates. The vast majority of those sent to combat were either minority or poor. The result of the Vietnam War was not only the 58,000 young American boys who died, but 1 million North Vietnamese soldiers, 2 million Vietnamese civilians with over 4 million more wounded. The above mentioned little hypocritical cowards wished then, and still wish today that all those figures were higher. Never forget that we dropped three times as much ordinance on Vietnam as we did in all theaters of war in WW2. So when these little Chickenhawks talk of fighting that war with our hands tied behind our backs, be sure to understand that what they mean is we should have either instituted a full scale ground invasion into North Vietnam with projected other-not me American deaths in the hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, or we should have dropped megaton class hydrogen bombs on major population centers throughout Southeast Asia. great articleon a side note...you left out that democratic senator from Georgia...triple amputee Vietnam vet....lost last election to a GOP candidate accusing him of being "too soft" on war policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Originally posted by bigpoppanils great articleon a side note...you left out that democratic senator from Georgia...triple amputee Vietnam vet....lost last election to a GOP candidate accusing him of being "too soft" on war policy Who was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Originally posted by underwater i was watching a debate on this last night....and someone had a great point...a smaller more highly trained army...that wants to be there and is paid to be there....is much more valuable then building a large and highly unskilled army that is bitter and would rather be doing anything else then fighting for the army....todays battles and wars are extemely complex and consist of using a lot of technology....a drafted 19 year old would only be good to throw in a fox hole and fight on the front lines.... i dont know if smaller better trained army is better than a larger average trained army...war boils down to simple things...the more bodies u have in ur army the better ur chances...going back...the North beat the South...the North had better resources and a hell of alot of bodies...the South had the better Generals (hands down)...all war, even as far advanced we are with smart bombs, etc...boils down the infantry on the field...u cannot win a war without a good, large and well trained infantry...unless we build Terminator like robots to fight our wars...but u remember what happened in Terminator, the humans beat the machines.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 i dont know if smaller better trained army is better than a larger average trained army...war boils down to simple things...the more bodies u have in ur army the better ur chances...going back...the North beat the South...the North had better resources and a hell of alot of bodies...the South had the better Generals (hands down)...all war, even as far advanced we are with smart bombs, etc...boils down the infantry on the field...u cannot win a war without a good, large and well trained infantry...unless we build Terminator like robots to fight our wars...but u remember what happened in Terminator, the humans beat the machines.. your theory is flawed:North Vietnam kicked the combined forces of US and Australia, after destroying the FrenchEithiopia kicked Italy's assAfghanistan kicked the USSR's assGermany kicked Russia's ass in World War 1Israel kicked the middle east's ass in the 6 day warthe US kicked Britain's ass...twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Originally posted by bigpoppanils your theory is flawed:North Vietnam kicked the combined forces of US and Australia, after destroying the FrenchEithiopia kicked Italy's assAfghanistan kicked the USSR's assGermany kicked Russia's ass in World War 1Israel kicked the middle east's ass in the 6 day warthe US kicked Britain's ass...twice eh...but u know these are very few instances...USUALLY the one with the more bodies and biggest and baddest toys...wins....btw, Vietnam war was the biggest mistake ever to be included in US military history....send ur troops to war but tie the hands of the military fighting it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 i am not saying that i subscribe to this theory...but it does make a lot of sense....war has become highly technical...we have the ability to search out the enemy and drop bombs within 12 inches of them....everything has become computerized....plus the morale of the soldiers is higher when they are paid and want to be there....there was a statistic that a draftee was 2X more likely to be killed in vietnam vs. a enlisted soldier.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Originally posted by underwater there was a statistic that a draftee was 2X more likely to be killed in vietnam vs. a enlisted soldier.... no wonder my dad made it back:idea: or maybe it wasnt so much the money...but those that enlisted were sick mofo's:tongue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 there's already unfortunately mandatory service in many countries (switzerland, sweden, finland, germany, israel, etc). it's sad that it has to come to that point, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 those countries are so small that they need to force people to serve...if they did not require it they would have the puniest armies and get overun....the US is a huge country.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 i would be for requiring some sort of mandatory civil service between high school and college...not necessarily military (although it could be an option)and as for the mandatory military service idea...would it be mandatory for men and women or just men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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