GM attempts to revitalize car lineup

[bigpoppanils]

GM will invest $2 billion in its "entry-level" cars across all divisons. Already GM is going to rebadge a Daewoo model as a Chevrolet, and 2 other Daewoo models as Suzukis ( )

GM is also finalizing a 200hp "high performace" Saturn Ion, as well as planning SS models for all Chevy badged models, featuring 3.8L supercharged V6's. Contrary to rumors, the Impala and Monte Carlo will not get V8s nor rear-wheel drive. (again... )

The next Chevy Malibu will be sharing Saab 9-3 mechanicals.

commentary: GM is wasting time. What it should do is build its european FWD models over here. They are much more interesting and technologically advanced than its current FWD models.

[cintron]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

commentary: GM is wasting time. What it should do is build its european FWD models over here. They are much more interesting and technologically advanced than its current FWD models.

i fully agree and i can't fucking wait for that company to go under.

they're building very nice cars over in europe, and they're selling cheaply assembled clunky looking shitboxes over here.

If they want to revitalize their lineup, build REAL sports cars. Get BALLS and build cars that SHOW like they weren't designed by a committee.

fwd supercharged V6 cars are a complete waste of time, handle like shit (especially on those ass-engineered chassis) and are damn impossible to control.

If they brought over such cars as the Opel Speedster, refined the sunfire or such to be an AWD turbo and marketed it in line with the WRX, stopped bastardizing the Monte Carlo, Impala and Malibu by trying to pass off their generic FWD V6 sedan platforms as "performance sports sedans" then maybe they might get somewhere.

The C5 corvette design is aging and it's time for a redesign soon.

It's okay to have a flagship sports car to highlight the rest of your lineup, but when your lineup is so generic, shitty and Joe Average, not even a ferrari would make people want to buy your shit.

[lalaman]

Pontiac and Cadillac are the only division going in the right direction. The GTO is gonna be nice (I hope the drop the LS6 into that) and the new C6 has alot to live up to b/c the C5 and Z06 were the best Vettes ever.

As far as other designs they despreatly need a turbo 4 cyl, why? B/c everyone else has one. Something about adding a turbo excites people. When really a turbo 4 cyl is useless when comparing it to a V6 (of equal power) for the average joe. But the ricers and dumb public love the turbos. Now dont get me wrong turbos are good when you talk about modding, but seeing as very few people mod their cars V6s keep costs low.

At any rate Lutz is a good guy, he has alot of direction and he WANTS to bring over all the cool shit. Its the number crunchers at GM that wont let him. I do agree that they should NOT bastardisze the SS name. That new Chevy Silvarado SS is pathetic, its not even on the same level as the L let alone the SRT10 from dodge.

THey really need to get with the program. More manual tranny options. Better looking interiors. Turbo 4 cyl. Precooked Ricey cars.

[cintron]

Originally posted by lalaman

THey really need to get with the program. More manual tranny options. Better looking interiors. Turbo 4 cyl. Precooked Ricey cars.

agreed.

and no FWD turbo platforms. Such a waste when you can't put that power to the pavement.

[joeg]

hey wait, why don't they just discontinue the firebird and camaros and put out more shitty low-budget unreliable cars that no one wants to drive?????

OH WAIT!!!!!! THEY DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and yeah, i believe the new vette was scheduled for 2k4 if memory serves... they better do something good with it... each generation of vette has improved upon the prior generation ENOURMOUSLY... they better not stop now...

but they pricetag shouldn't increase along with it... $55k is pushing it when for 15 or 20k more you can get something much nicer...

[bigpoppanils]

actually...i wanna correct something in the original posting...

GM is starting to use its european platforms in the US lineup.....the next malibu will be a test for that. GM will be sending over the Vauxhall Signum (a highend 5 door hatch on the Saab 9-3 platform....similar to IS300 Sportcross) as either a Malibu variant or as an AWD suv alternative. GM is also planning to bring Alfa Romeo back to our shores using that same platform. Hopefully that pays off for GM, and then it may apply the forumla to the rest of its lineup.

i also hope that GM doesnt screw up the next Corvette. If anything, I think they should increase the lineup to include a version with less features (cloth interior, fixed roof, manual A/C, manual only, etc.) at a price to compete with the high-end mustangs

[cintron]

and they need to start bringing platforms like the Opel Speedster over here.

but they won't. they're too concerned with making shitboxes to transport older teens and Joe-Average adults to American Idol contests or on the latest safari to the local supermarket.

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

I also hope that GM doesnt screw up the next Corvette. If anything, I think they should increase the lineup to include a version with less features (cloth interior, fixed roof, manual A/C, manual only, etc.) at a price to compete with the high-end mustangs

Nah mon, the Vette and the Stang are in two completely different car snob groups . . . . .

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

Nah mon, the Vette and the Stang are in two completely different car snob groups . . . . .

not for long...Ford plans to market the next mustang against the M3

[jdogg]

FWIW - Outside of the East coast super-metro area (Boston-NY- Philly-DC) and California, GM has a very significant market share. For '02 GM had about 29% of the new car and truck market in the US. I agree that there is a lack of a low end performance car to go head-to-head with the WRX and the Lancer EVO, but GM is not in the WRC with any products. Performance products are coming, but maybe not in that style (specifically). It is highly unlikely that GM will close up shop as someone here suggested.

C6 Vette will be launched over two years. Base Coupe/Hardtop in the first year (SOP 7/04), the convertible and ZO6 coming the second, according to the launch information that I have. The LS1/LS6 engines are being replaced by GenIV LS2/LS7 small blocks. LS2 is 6.0L, 400hp/400lb-ft and the LS7 is 6.4L and currently has no published numbers, but rumored to be north of 450hp/450lb-ft. There are 3 engineering study engines on a 7.0L (427c.i.) program - if these ever see the light of day, it will be amazing. As to the lifecycle on the Vette, this is one of the shortest design cycles in recent memory. Look and see how long the C4 was in production.

CTSV, the high performance Cadillac CTS will get the LS6 engine and a 6-speed manual (T56) from the Corvette.

Monte Carlo and Impala will get a 270hp 4.8L V8, front drive in the '05 time frame. No further specifics on that program.

The 7.5L V-12 showcased in the Cadillac Cien is slated for production, no announced product for the engine (as of this time). The Cadillac Sixteen shown at the Detroit Autoshow is a running vehicle and Bob Lutz, being the maniac that he is, had the people at the Tech Center in Warren, cut apart a GMC Yukon, and put the engine in the truck so he could evaluate the powertrain. There is a GMC Yukon in the Detroit area with an 18" stretch on the hood.

The Cadillac Northstar engine gets redone for the '04 model year with variable valve timing on intake (40deg of change) and exhaust (50deg of change). First iteration of this engine will be in the XLR roadster, which is based on the C6 chassis.

The 2.2L Ecotec motor currently in the Cavalier/Sunfire has several pre-production studies for 1.) Naturally aspirated, 250hp, 2.) Turbo 245hp, and 3.) supercharged for 245hp. The higher output engines are likely to make the next generation Cavalier/Sunfire models. #2 and #3 are more likely near term, as #1 is still in engineering evaluatiuon, and is targeted at the S2000 type of performance.

Manual transmissions are going to have a greater presence in future cars, they were shunned by a large majority of buyers and therefore not considered as options for certain cars and trucks. You may see different styles of manuals (electronic shifting) than what you are used to seeing in the past.

The Pontiac GTO is coming with around a $35k price tag, and only about 18,000 units a year are coming into the states from Australia. That equates to about 10% of Holden's annual production, so I would not expect to see that number change significantly. This will first appear with the LS1 engine and as the Gen IV engines come out in '04 will migrate to the LS2.

As far as the SS models go, there is a regular cab, 4x2, short box, Silverado SS coming with a manual trans. There is a Tahoe SS and a Trailblazer SS in the works too.

Lutz has let the car people start to run the design and engineering again. Remember a new car, from scratch takes about 24 months to get launched, and has to have a place to build it. It also takes $1-1.5B to do so. There are 2 groups in the advanced car development - unibody and body on frame. You car buffs can make your own conclusion on that one.

[cintron]

my conclusion is that the majority of cars you will see pushed and advertised will be those shit FWD v8 monte carlos and impalas.

The C6 had better be every bit as good and better than the C5.

GM likes to keep using bigger engines. I think it's wasteful.

I'd like to see GM develop a TRUE moden turbo 4 or 6 but as long as they're selling oversized vehicles with oversized engines for oversized people, they won't.

The Ecotec 2.2L is capable of a 245hp output via turbo or supercharging, given only that piston oil squirters are installed and the bottom end of the motor is strengthened to withstand the raised output.

Vehicle dynamics and chassis development MUST be addressed. This area is one in which GM has lagged behind for years, the C5 being one of the few exceptions.

I'd be excited to see the CTS with a V8. If it is front drive, i am making a trip to detroit and beating up some engineers.

otherwise, wider rubber, deep-dish rims and an aggressive front lip and fascia would make my day.

[jdogg]

Originally posted by cintron

my conclusion is that the majority of cars you will see pushed and advertised will be those shit FWD v8 monte carlos and impalas.

The C6 had better be every bit as good and better than the C5.

GM likes to keep using bigger engines. I think it's wasteful.

I'd like to see GM develop a TRUE moden turbo 4 or 6 but as long as they're selling oversized vehicles with oversized engines for oversized people, they won't.

The Ecotec 2.2L is capable of a 245hp output via turbo or supercharging, given only that piston oil squirters are installed and the bottom end of the motor is strengthened to withstand the raised output.

Vehicle dynamics and chassis development MUST be addressed. This area is one in which GM has lagged behind for years, the C5 being one of the few exceptions.

I'd be excited to see the CTS with a V8. If it is front drive, i am making a trip to detroit and beating up some engineers.

otherwise, wider rubber, deep-dish rims and an aggressive front lip and fascia would make my day.

Yes, the C6 is going to be better.

The bigger engines provide more torque and with some interesting mechanical developments get significantly better fuel economy than current. A larger displacement engine is not wasteful, if you meet the emissions, fuel economy and performance demands.

Face it, the majority of the american public is oversized as you put it. Oversized is now regular sized when it comes to seats and such and the room that people want in the majority of the cars.

Turbo engines(yes, modern ones) are on the design table. A twin turbo 4.2L I-6? The turbo 2.2L I-4 ? They are in design consideration, and are close to release. The new product has to be in place for these engines to hit the market.

Vehicle Dynamics and chassis development have lagged how and where? Look at the product development cycles. The mass of attention over the past few years has been on the truck side of the business, and amazingly, we sell more trucks than cars. THe car side got the Deville in '00, the CTS in '02, the Malibu, SRX and XLR in '03, the Vette in '04. Other products are on the way, that address your specific concerns. The W-car is due in '06, the J-car in '05/'06 (the sooner the better IMO).

As I said, the Cadillac CTS is currently rear drive, with a 5spd auto/5spd manual and a 220hp V6. The V-series CTS will have the LS6 engine from the ZO6 Corvette and the T56 six speed manual box.

Also, the Caddy STS is going rear drive with the next gen Northstar 4.2L V8.