igloo Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 Dennis Prager February 18, 2003When have millions of Europeans ever been wrong? With millions of Europeans demonstrating against America, many Americans, raised to regard Europe as an ally, must be wondering what is happening. Some Americans even may be wondering if Europe may be right: after all, when have millions of Europeans ever been wrong? It is therefore essential that Americans understand the nature of the rift between America and Western Europe (not Eastern Europe, which thanks to its suffering under Communist evil, understands evil and values America) -- a rift that will only widen unless one adopts the values of the other. For at this moment, there are two civilizational wars taking place: Islamist hostility to Western liberty and European hostility to American values. Why this European hostility? First, Europe believes in socialism, while America believes in capitalism. This difference can hardly be overstated. Most Western Europeans believe in socialism as fervently as religious Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in their respective religions. To many Americans, socialism is only an economic system, but for Western Europeans it has largely replaced Christianity as their faith. The United States not only rejects socialism; it is the chief obstacle to its spread -- because of its military and cultural might, and especially because of its economic success. Indeed, America is the chief impediment to the spread of both Islam and socialism. This explains the unity of leftist and Muslim activists. Though theoretically they have nothing in common, as Osama bin Laden just announced, "in the current circumstances, the interests of Muslims coincide with the interests of the socialists" -- opposing America. Second, as a result of the massive bloodshed of the nationalism-based World Wars, Western Europeans concluded that the abolition of national identities is a moral necessity. Europe's elite decided to believe in Europe and the United Nations rather than in their individual nations. An English protester, quoted in the Los Angeles Times, explained his protest in terms of support of the United Nations, not Britain: British Prime Minister Tony Blair "has totally misjudged . how destabilizing this (support for America) has been to the United Nations. And we believe in the United Nations." Just as Europeans were losing faith in their national identities, the United States came to believe even more strongly in its distinct national identity. While Europeans and the American Left have more faith in the moral judgment of the United Nations, where Libya chairs the Human Rights Commission and Syria and China vote in the Security Council, most Americans have more faith in America. Third, pacifist ideas dominate European society. Another major ideological consequence of the World Wars was the belief that wars are wrong, that any evil -- from Communism to Saddam Hussein or North Korea owning weapons of mass destruction -- is better than fighting. America, on the other hand, believes that it is sometimes better to fight evil. The last time many Europeans demonstrated against America was when President Ronald Reagan put Pershing missiles in Europe. Europeans thought that confronting the Soviets was provocative and wrong. Fourth, Europe passionately affirms secularism, while America remains the most religious among the industrialized democracies. In this sphere, too, either America or Europe is right. And the predominance of America, a religious country -- one, no less, that affirms the religion the European elites have rejected -- infuriates the Europeans. Positing no transcendent or religious basis for an objective and universal standard of good and evil, Europe disdains moral absolutes and moral judgments. Whether it was President Reagan calling the Soviet Union an "evil empire" or President Bush labeling North Korea, Iran and Iraq an "axis of evil," Europeans (and the American Left, whose values are identical) found such moral labeling contemptible. Indeed our president personifies all that Europe dislikes in America. He comes from the business world, wears an Americans flag on his lapel, is ready to go to war against an evil regime, and believes deeply in God, in Christianity and America's Judeo-Christian identity. He even wears cowboy boots. Thomas Jefferson suggested that the Great Seal of the United States depict the Israelites' exodus from Egypt. He and the other Founders knew that America's future was and must be based on leaving Europe. It is truer now than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 what interests me is why europeans so deeply resent the cowboy-like approach of bush. he is direct, simple and fair, as opposed to cynical, overbearing, endlessly intellectual and infinitely debatable position of the europeans. why cant they see that longer inspections dont mean diddly shit. iraqis have advace warnings of upcoming expections, and hide weapons. longer inspections just means a longer cat and mouse game. and if we do agree to the franco-german nonsense, our troops will leave for home, letting saddam off the noose. you think for a second this asshole will let the inspectors stay? and if they do find material, because lets face it, billions of dollars spent and multiple contracts with the French nuclear industry dont buy donuts, they buy nukes. and after all is said and done, after the inspectors are kicked out, or they find something, the US military will still have to fight the battle, while europeans will drink cafe latte and lament on the rubbish brutality and arrogance of the yanks. unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 Originally posted by tribal what interests me is why europeans so deeply resent the cowboy-like approach of bush. he is direct, simple and fair, as opposed to cynical, overbearing, endlessly intellectual and infinitely debatable position of the europeans. why cant they see that longer inspections dont mean diddly shit. iraqis have advace warnings of upcoming expections, and hide weapons. longer inspections just means a longer cat and mouse game. and if we do agree to the franco-german nonsense, our troops will leave for home, letting saddam off the noose. you think for a second this asshole will let the inspectors stay? and if they do find material, because lets face it, billions of dollars spent and multiple contracts with the French nuclear industry dont buy donuts, they buy nukes. and after all is said and done, after the inspectors are kicked out, or they find something, the US military will still have to fight the battle, while europeans will drink cafe latte and lament on the rubbish brutality and arrogance of the yanks. unbelievable Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Originally posted by tribal what interests me is why europeans so deeply resent the cowboy-like approach of bush. he is direct, simple and fair, as opposed to cynical, overbearing, endlessly intellectual and infinitely debatable position of the europeans. why cant they see that longer inspections dont mean diddly shit. iraqis have advace warnings of upcoming expections, and hide weapons. longer inspections just means a longer cat and mouse game. and if we do agree to the franco-german nonsense, our troops will leave for home, letting saddam off the noose. you think for a second this asshole will let the inspectors stay? and if they do find material, because lets face it, billions of dollars spent and multiple contracts with the French nuclear industry dont buy donuts, they buy nukes. and after all is said and done, after the inspectors are kicked out, or they find something, the US military will still have to fight the battle, while europeans will drink cafe latte and lament on the rubbish brutality and arrogance of the yanks. unbelievable believe it or not...not everyone thinks like you, tribal, and you're limiting yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 hell...this country is already a corporate welfare state...whats so wrong about making it a public welfare state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 believe it or not...not everyone thinks like you, tribal, and you're limiting yourself.why am i limiting myself? im aware that not everyone thinks like me. im just trying to understand the backbone-lacking european mentality. you know its rather funny how hypocritical the europeans can be. you notice how they always nag about our death penalty, about our nation being a religious country, and how we lack socialism. they always bring that to our face. yet at the same token they complain about US instilling its own values on everyone else. terrible thing to instill democracy in states that run on anarchy. they resent us for bringing a functional government (afghanistan) yet they have ze nerve! to tell us how our religion should be followed, and how our murderers should be treated. at this point, france and germany are irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Originally posted by tribal believe it or not...not everyone thinks like you, tribal, and you're limiting yourself.why am i limiting myself? im aware that not everyone thinks like me. im just trying to understand the backbone-lacking european mentality. you know its rather funny how hypocritical the europeans can be. you notice how they always nag about our death penalty, about our nation being a religious country, and how we lack socialism. they always bring that to our face. yet at the same token they complain about US instilling its own values on everyone else. terrible thing to instill democracy in states that run on anarchy. they resent us for bringing a functional government (afghanistan) yet they have ze nerve! to tell us how our religion should be followed, and how our murderers should be treated. at this point, france and germany are irrelevant. is it anarchy because you think it's bs? how exactly would you define "anarchy"...european style? .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmahs Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 I read today that Iraq only allowed U2 flights with 48 hours notice??? What the hell does that accomplish they they ask we want to go at it alone but we all know we are not alone Good --- VS---- Evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Originally posted by bigmahs I read today that Iraq only allowed U2 flights with 48 hours notice??? What the hell does that accomplish they they ask we want to go at it alone but we all know we are not alone Good --- VS---- Evil who is exactly good, and who exactly is evil...and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Originally posted by bigmahs I read today that Iraq only allowed U2 flights with 48 hours notice??? What the hell does that accomplish they they ask we want to go at it alone but we all know we are not alone Good --- VS---- Evil oh yes...Iraq is the great evil one...despite saudi arabia's proven links to Al Qaeda (the "charities", that most of the 9/11 hijackers were saudi's, etc) and North Korea's nuclear threats...makes perfect sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmahs Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Originally posted by sassa who is exactly good, and who exactly is evil...and why? Your kidding right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 Originally posted by bigpoppanils oh yes...Iraq is the great evil one...despite saudi arabia's proven links to Al Qaeda (the "charities", that most of the 9/11 hijackers were saudi's, etc) and North Korea's nuclear threats...makes perfect sense So, using your logic, because the Saudi's and N Koreans are "evil", and then Iraq is not?Your statement is completely illogical....If you oppose war that is your choice, but don't confuse facts...The Iraqi regime is evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Originally posted by igloo So, using your logic, because the Saudi's and N Koreans are "evil", and then Iraq is not?Your statement is completely illogical....If you oppose war that is your choice, but don't confuse facts...The Iraqi regime is evil the same could be said for this regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 Originally posted by sassa the same could be said for this regime. Sassa.....how you can you make a statement like thatSeriously, that is such a ridiculous thing to say.....and has absolutely no credibility.....If you do not like the Bush Administration, that is one thing...but to say they are evil, or compare them to the Iraqi regime is dumb, insulting, shameful,and offensive...You should be ashamed of yourself for making a comment like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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