Human Shields

[normalnoises]

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=44404&group=webcast

Bagdad: Human Sheilds: We'll Stay..

by Max Watts 6:44pm Sat Mar 22 '03 (Modified on 2:17pm Mon Mar 24 '03) article#44404

RN3280DVBAGHDADWE'LLSTAY..

Sydney, 14:45 hrs - Saturday, 22 March 2003: The TV and radio report (amongst other things which may be true) big raids on Baghdad. I worry about Rosemarie Gillespie (and some other 5 million people) there.

Rosemarie had, successfully, sent me an email - but that was yesterday, some hours before the bombs. The promised second em hadn't arrived. Had . something. happened. ?

I phone. On the fifth try I get thru. "Is Rosemarie there ?" "Speaking." How are you ? (Glad to hear you are not only alive, but there, but this don't say).

Fine. We had a big raid last nite. Very intense. Some hit close to us. I think they are aiming at the bridges. (Rosemarie Gillespie is part of a group of now 14 internationals, including two Australians, Human Shields, at the 7th of April Water Treatment Plant, on the Tigris River, in the suburbs of Baghdad. See also RRs DU, and previous. The Water Treatment Plant is a few hundred meters from the river.)

R: I can't tell if they've hit bridges, but they lit a very large fire, there was lots of smoke and could see the red glow of the flames, but after some hours it was extinguished. There's no more fire, no smoke, but before the smoke filled the sky. (Pause.. looking ?) The fire is out.

Q: Casualties ?

R: Some. Some houses, Civilians, Children, dead. But (at 7 am) have no figures, no confirmed figures.

Q The Internationals ? The Human Shields ?

R: As far as I know, all OK. At the Palestine Hotel (HQ of the Human Shields) -- there's broken glass..

Q: Your plans ?

R: We'll stay.

M: The media here, and American, report the war is almost "won", Hussein is dead, wounded, or not, the Americans are advancing almost at will.

R: (Laughs) That's a big lie. There's stiff resistance.(see earlier email, below).

R: I'm hearing Anti-Aircraft fire now. have to listen. yes. (An hour later, around 8 am Baghdad time, as ABC reporter TM spoke with Rosemarie, there were "explosions" near by).

============

MW: I received your first email from Friday evening, did you send the second ?

R: Not yet. I have to go to town to email. What with the bombing, nothing's certain.

M I'll send out your first one now. Won't wait for the second.

21 MARCH UPDATE

To: rosiek@bigpond.com

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 8:44 PM

Dear Max:

The email connection is open again - hooray! Today's email will be in two parts, what I will send now which you should receive before 10pm your time, the rest will come later and should be there when you wake up tomorrow morning.

It seems that I slept through some of the bombing last night. (Thursday) After a while you get used to it. It only wakes you up if it is close or right on top of you. I did an interview with Derryn Hinch this morning and got an idea of the type of bullshit that is being pushed out through the commercial media. Please, when you have time, could you send an email outlining the claims Bush and Howard are making to try to justify their actions, eg that they are coming to liberate the Iraqis, that the human shields are traitors, etc, etc. This will make it easier at our end to prepare our rebuttals. Please send all emails to me at the Human Shields email address: andalus206@warkaa.net and include my name in the title of the document you send to that address.

Bush believes his own bullshit. So does Howard. Eventually their bullshit will be washed away with the rivers of time. In the meantime:

Part of our peace effort here is to counter the lies, not only to save Iraqi lives, but also to save American and Australian lives. It would be tragic not only for the Iraqis, but also for the Australian, American and British soldiers, sailors and pilots who are being sent into Iraq under false pretences and will become casualties of this war.

Remember Gallipoli, when Aussie diggers died in their thousands because a huge miscalculation made by their British masters (Britain controlled Australian foreign policy at the time) My great uncle, a talented pianist, was one of them.

Remember Vietnam, where American GIs and Australian diggers died in a war also based on a big miscalculation, which caused terrible suffering to the Vietnamese. It also radicalized a generation of Australians and Americans, who have not forgotten the lessons of that war, even if the American and Australian governments prefer to forget and embark on yet another disastrous war.

In each case, the miscalculation was based partly on racism. In the case of Gallipoli, Churchill and other British war planners overlooked the fact that the Turks would vigorously defend their homeland against any invasion by an outside power - and the attempted landing at Gallipoli was just that, an invasion. In Iraq, the situation is exactly the same. Iraq is a neighbour of Turkey. Both have a long history and are not to be trifled with.

The idea that Iraqis will welcome American troops as liberators is fanciful. How can anyone imagine they can win friends and influence people by bombing them! Surely the chiefs of the American Establishment would have learned their lessons in Vietnam. If not, they are doomed to learn their lessons once again, this time at a terrible cost in human lives and human suffering. If they were history students, they would get a Fail. If they were patients in a psychiatric hospital, Bush and Cheney would have been diagnosed as suffering from paranoid delusions and delusions of grandeur.

"The idea that Iraqis will welcome American troops as liberators is fanciful."

Ummm...Rosie....I think you better stop getting your information from the Iraqi Information Ministry minders.

..................

SAFWAN, Iraq, March 21 — Happiness and dread rose together today from this desolate border village, where some of the first Iraqis liberated by American and British troops found the joy of their deliverance muted by the fear that it was too good to last.

As hundreds of coalition troops swept in here just after dawn, the heartache of a town that has felt the hardest edges of Saddam Hussein's rule seemed to burst forth, with villagers running into the streets to celebrate in a kind of grim ecstasy, laughing and weeping in long guttural cries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-TOWN.html

Ain't the Warfare State just grand?

by No more Baiting Arseholes 10:59pm Sat Mar 22 '03 comment#44445

Will the War freaks take any responsibility for the consequences of their desires? I doubt it.

The Real Stakes Behind the War

- With the UN Neutralized There Are No More Rules

- The U.S. Economy on the Brink

- Global Oil Shortages and Massive Price Hikes Imminent

- Paralysis Looming in U.S. Government

- The WTO and Rockefellers Turning on Bush

- A World War that Will Pit the U.S. Against Europe and Russia in a Struggle for Survival with the Winners Facing China

THE PERFECT STORM - Part I

by Michael C. Ruppert

© Copyright 2003, From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

- And most of the American people, with their bankrupt and corrupt economy, will welcome cheap oil, while it lasts, and they will engage in a multitude of psychological and sickening rationales that will, in the end, amount to nothing more than saying, "I don’t care how many women and children you kill. Just let me keep my standard of living." -- From The Wilderness, August 27, 2002.

- What does big oil want in Iraq? To regain influence over the great Middle East oilfields... and the race seems likely to be won by American and British firms: ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, Shell and BP – Newsweek, March 24, 2003 issue

- The most common cause of recessions, a surge in oil prices, is again afflicting the global economy – The New York Times, March 2, 2003

- French and Russian oil and gas contracts signed with the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq "will not be honored," Kurdish Prime Minister Barhim Salih said in Washington Friday. – Newsmax Wires March 14, 2003

March 19, 2003 1700 PST, (FTW) – Diplomacy ended on Monday and the reality and risks of a global war are now placed in the immediate and unavoidable focus of a world which has for the most part chosen not to understand what is at stake. This war will not be fought solely with bullets and bombs. The chain of events which is about to be set in motion dictates that the United States, assuming its Iraqi conquest is successful, continue upon a series of global military occupations to control the last remaining significant oil reserves on the planet. With the shedding of the first blood, the dropping of the first bomb, the killing of the first Iraqi child, and the death of the first American serviceman, a one-way border will have been crossed. And with that crossing economic and political forces that might combine to form the Perfect Storm aimed at America have made themselves visible.

George W. Bush’s United States will punish its recent adversaries at the UN. They will be cut out of the Iraqi spoils. But Germany, France, Russia and China have a much more realistic view of Iraqi oil than the U.S. does. Bush and his corporate allies have marketed to the markets that sometime in the next month or two we’re going to see a real bonanza as oil prices fall back to $15-20 dollar per barrel and stay there. It is not going to happen.

On March 7, FTW Contributing Editor for Energy, Dale Allen Pfeiffer broke down the reality of Iraqi oil. It’s not what’s in the ground that counts now, it’s what can be gotten to market. The Bush gamble is a big long shot and getting longer by the minute. Iraqi oil infrastructure is crumbling after twelve years of sanctions and there won’t be any increase in Iraqi production without major investment and rebuilding. That takes time. The Guardian disclosed on January 26 that the U.S. is currently buying more than a million barrels per day (Mbpd) from Iraq out of the ten million that it imports from around the world. What might happen if just that million barrels went away?

For a detailed look at the current state of Iraq’s oil industry please visit:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/030703_us_intentions.html

What we know from previous stories in FTW is that the world has no spare production capacity to make up for any significant loss of supply in Iraq. Sure OPEC has stated that they will increase production by three to five Mbpd. Venezuela has staged a remarkable recovery after the recently failed "strike" to reach 3 Mbpd of its pre-strike level of 4 Mbpd. But Venezuelan fields are old, tired, depleting fast and the oil is heavy and expensive to refine. Venezuela offers no cushion. The promises of Saudi Arabia and the other mid east OPEC nations, on their face, sound comforting but they mean nothing because the planet is consuming a billion barrels (Gb) of oil every 12 days and that rate of consumption is increasing. Recent stories by the Agence France Presse (March 12) and the BBC (March 10) tell us that auto sales jumped 48% last year in Thailand and 50% in China respectively. This is the double edged sword behind Peak Oil. Without increased sales of consumer goods and autos, the Western economies collapse anyway and the emerging economies of the Far East are steadily increasing both consumption and demand.

So if Iraqi production drops as a result of war, where will the U.S. make up the difference and how much will it cost? Bush has indirectly threatened to punish France, Germany and Russia by locking them out of the promised booty. All of them, especially France and Russia have major investments there. But those countries still have something the U.S. does not, access to a ready supply of oil in the short term from Russia which no doubt has guaranteed its allies supply to make up for any losses from Iraq. If he really wanted to play hardball Russian President Vladimir Putin could bifurcate his pricing structure to favor the Moscow-Berlin- Paris alliance. He would find ready sympathy from Russian oil companies now eliminated from collecting on approximately $40 billion worth of new oil construction contracts and an $8 billion Iraqi debt. Russia has not forgotten how it was shamelessly looted out of an estimated $500 billion by Goldman Sachs, The Harvard Endowment and the U.S. Treasury during the 1990s. That shameless episode, which rendered Russia incapable of resisting U.S. military moves post-9/11, resulted in what a committee chaired by Congressman Christopher Cox, R-CA described as three times worse than the Great Depression.

The whole issue of Peak Oil has been moved ahead of schedule by Europe. Within a few short years the entire planet will begin to suffer societal collapse as a result of diminishing non-renewable resources. Russia has long passed its production peak and cannot continue pumping at wildly expanded rates for very long. It might take two to five years before production costs for the dregs inevitably shrink exports. But Moscow, Paris and Berlin don’t need three years. The complete devastation of the U.S. economy might be a sure thing in three to six months. That’s how fragile it is.

And what has Putin got to lose? He knows that the American agenda is to secure those reserves that have not yet peaked (i.e. The Persian Gulf sans Iran), drive the price of oil down to $13-20 per barrel, break OPEC’s back and simultaneously destroy the economic recovery that $40 oil is bringing to Russia which spends much more to produce its oil than OPEC does.

France, Germany and Russia have not opposed the American Empire lightly, nor will their resistance end now. In fact, it must intensify. The fact that these nations have not introduced a Security Council resolution condemning the invasion might signal that they are hedging their bets and it might also signal that they are just awaiting the first U.S. misstep which is sure to come. But a clue is that, of the three, Russia has bluntly labeled the U.S. invasion illegal. These countries know that the Bush administration has placed the United States in a violent, all-or-nothing position and that it has less than a 50-50 chance of winning.

While the blood is being shed the real battle will be economic and political; the dollar vs. the Euro, images of bombs and tanks vs. images of reason, caution and diplomacy. In the meantime the U.S. economy has placed all its hopes and stability on a bonanza of cheap oil which careful analysis shows is more fantasy than probable outcome. Even the Council on Foreign Relations agrees on this point.

In a brilliant Feb. 11th analysis of the current oil situation, Marshall Auerback, writing for The Prudent Bear web site quoted from a recent CFR report co-sponsored by Bush crony, oil man and former Secretary of State James Baker:

"Notwithstanding the value of Iraq’s vast oil reserves, there are severe limits on them both as a source of funding for post-conflict reconstruction efforts and as the key driver of future economic development. Put simply, we do not expect a bonanza."

Worse, according to a March 17 story in the Miami Herald revenues from Iraqi oil would not cover the costs of rebuilding the bridges, dams, power generating stations and roads that are sure to be destroyed in the coming weeks. The U.S., of necessity, will turn all cash flow toward rebuilding the oil fields while it must leave the devastated Iraqi populace to live in pestilence among the rubble. In light of America’s unilateral bullishness the EU announced last week that there might be limits to how much assistance it could render to the Iraqi people, especially if their countries were prevented from performing on their legal contracts.

Multiple recent reports from the oil industry state clearly that recent price hikes are the result of over-stretched production capacity and historically low reserve levels. Currently U.S. oil reserves are at a 28-year low and the White House has acknowledged plans to tap the 700 million barrel Strategic Petroleum Reserve at the start of the conflict. That’s enough to protect the U.S. economy from further price shocks for about 70 days. Then what? Under the best of circumstances it takes mid-east oil about six weeks to get from the oil fields into your gas tank.

Further confirmation of Peak Oil’s arrival is found in recent stories from AP and The Guardian stating that Norway, once a major exporter, is expecting a decline in production and drilling due to dwindling reserves and that Shell has just eliminated one fifth of its North Sea jobs. And on March 18 Hong Kong announced that it will allow eight airlines to levy an emergency fuel surcharge of between $8.50 and $13 per passenger.

At home soaring gasoline prices are just the ticket the Bush administration wants to curb demand and exploit a subliminal unspoken deal with consumers that will sanction the slaughter and keep the poll numbers manageable for a while. But economic demons are bashing down the door. Americans vote with their wallets says the cliché. On March 16, angry black residents staged a protest in Los Angeles claiming that they could not afford to drive to work while paying two dollars a gallon. On the one hand they don’t have a clue about what the global oil reality is and on the other they will achieve nothing by demanding lowered prices and more supply without realizing that there is no more cheap oil to supply them – or anybody else for that matter. At least there is certainly not enough to make a difference for more than a few months or a year. But with less discretionary income to absorb the price shocks, the inner city poor are the prototypes for what the rest of us will be doing soon enough.

The poor always die first. And this is just one of the many signs that the Empire is starting to crumble from within.

Consider:

- The Bush Administration refuses to put a price tag on the war as budget deficits approach all-time record levels and the tax base is shrinking. Both the U.S. government and its people are awash in debt. Unemployment is skyrocketing as consumer confidence crashes. State and local governments are screaming for money and facing their worst budget shortfalls in sixty years.

- Writing at The Ether Zone, http://www.etherzone.com/, Ed Henry notes that with

the national debt at over $6 trillion the U.S. government is bouncing along the debt ceiling which means that it legally cannot borrow any more money. Its options are to sell more bonds (not likely with an anemic dollar, bad management, and an expanding trade deficit) or liquidate assets. One of the few assets available to Treasury Secretary John Snow is the stock portfolio of the Federal Employees Thrift Savings Plan which has about $44 billion in stock investments. What do you think would happen on Wall Street if Uncle Sam dumped $40 billion in stock?

- Backbones of the housing mortgage market Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which,

according to the New York Posts’ brilliant reporter John Crudele, own or guarantee $3.1 trillion or 45 per cent of outstanding residential debt, are in serious trouble. They don’t have enough cash to handle what might be a serious economic shock as the housing bubble collapses. Their collapse could imperil the entire economy and Crudele observed that the Federal Reserve was taking serious note of the way these "mortgage cowboys" had managed their business in inflating share prices which are now in steep decline.

- Market Oracles Warren Buffet and George Soros are issuing dire predictions about

the U.S. and world economies. Soros is blasting at George W. Bush’s management style and Buffet is warning of derivatives time-bombs in what Britain’s Telegraph calls an "apocalyptic warning."

There are serious signs of a major political revolt brewing in the United States – one that could end the Bush Presidency – George W. Bush still has his finger on the trigger and he knows that his only hope for survival is to pull it. U.S. and British intelligence agencies are leaking documents left and right disputing White House "evidence" against Iraq that has repeatedly been shown to be falsified, plagiarized and forged. Quiet meetings are being held in Washington between members of Congress and attorneys like Ramsey Clark discussing Bush’s impeachment. Leaders of the World Trade Organization (WTO), as reported in a March 15 story in the International Herald Tribune have said, "All international institutions would suffer a loss of credibility if the one superpower appeared to be choosing which rules to obey and which to ignore." And a Rockefeller has called for an investigation of a Bush. On March 14 The Associated Press reported that W. Va. Senator Jay Rockefeller has asked the FBI to investigate forged documents which were presented first by Britain and then the United States showing that Iraq had been trying to purchase uranium from the African country of Niger for its weapons program. Of all the glaring falsehoods told by the administration the fact that these forgeries were noted by a Rockefeller may make them the second-rate Watergate burglary of the 21st century. (See Part II)

There are few things more closely connected to or identified with Bush family power than globalization and the Rockefellers. He has most likely failed both of them and both have the power to remove him.

Too much, too little, too late; at least as far as preventing a war and massive carnage is concerned. But these developments suggest that the real powers that be might be getting ready to have Bush impeached just as soon as he has humiliated the United States, started a World War leading to the deaths of perhaps millions of people, destroyed the efficacy of the United Nations and secured the Iraqi oil fields. This is a playing field which the biggest money might desire and for which it might be willing to offer a sacrifice if it becomes necessary. If the war turns out to be a dismal failure then the scapegoat has volunteered for his own hanging and there are signs that it is being prepared.

One thing is certain. If George W. Bush is removed from within, it will signal nothing other than a new "kinder, gentler" set of managers pursuing the exact same agenda as before. The dirtiest work will have been done.

COMING IN PART II – The signs of a pending coup as Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld are betrayed by a litany of former allies.

www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/03190...

Shield hit the Jordainian boarder

by concerned american 5:05am Sun Mar 23 '03 comment#44460

Intersting news from UPI

By Arnaud de Borchgrave

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

to 'concerned american'

by wize 8:24am Sun Mar 23 '03 comment#44467

You seem to be part of psy-ops. It won't work. We don't buy Yankee lies. The US power elite has lied so blatantly, so often, that we just suspect everything coming from that angle is a lie.

comment for "no more"

by zelda 7:40pm Sun Mar 23 '03 comment#44548

umm, dickhead, I think that Rosie is IN Iraq, and your'e NOT? (Where'd you get that picture, from the NBC website? Figures)

VERY FANCIFUL!!!!

by LogicalLeft 8:51pm Sun Mar 23 '03 comment#44558

Terrific Reporting Aussies... I'm a Leichardt boy... Fort St educated..

I feel it is extremely fanciful that ANY Arab would welcome America into their homeland..

A few shots of some relieved Arabs does not convice the world that America has the right to bomb a few cities and palaces!

This war is a tragedy!

The world is yet to see ANY convincing proof to support ANY of USA's claims... let's not forget we started this with weapons of mass destruction, Al-Quaeda links, Illegal Chemicals and of course the awful lies about Saddam's dictatorship!

Yet.. nothing has been proved yet! Even in war.. the Iraqi's with their obselete weapons are waging a fair fight! WITHOUT chemical weapons!

USA is fighting 16 Million Iraqi's now.. and will be until US troops eventually LEAVE!

This war doesn't end when Bush and Cheney say it does!

It ends when the truth is known and when USA removes itself from the region!

USA has savagely underestimated the RESOLVE (remember that word) of the Arab world!

USA has also savagly underestimated the strength of the European Union...

In fact USA's woes are only just beginning!

Finally.. Bush's claims of having a support base of 30 nations is laughable...

His support base includes the cronically Oil deficient Nations of Japan, Italy & Spain... The major Anglo countries, USA, UK and Oz... AND a selection of ëasily bought"global MINNOWS!

Furthermore.. of the Nations who DO support USA.. notably UK, Oz, Japan, Spain and Italy.. the actual percentage of the population who support the war ranges from 25% to 15%!

PS: Can the DOGS from Hannity leave me alone! In case they followed me here...

Thank you for your voice

by luz 1:25am Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44592

Your voice is coming through loud and clear about the true condition at your position in Iraq. Regrettably the willing killing of the Iraqis continues at the behest of Perle, Wolfowitz, Chaney,Rumsfeld, and their power hungry cronies. Be assured that the voices here in the USA are mounting against their destruction of our democracy and the existence of Arabic nations.

We had some people like you in Bosnia-Thanks!

by Indira 2:49am Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44600

Good job there are people like you there, we had them in Bosnia and we were lucky (those who survived)! I wish I could join you in Baghdad especially having survived 3,5 yrs in Bosnia, you could say I am used to "noise" and maybe could easily relate to Iraqi people as we were also overwhelmed by enemy forces.

Strange thing is that US played a positive role in Bosnia and stopped the bloodshed and here they have become exactly what they fought in Bosnia!! Don't they realize that? Don't they know the price US citizens will be paying for years to come, by only leaving in fear (abroad) and at home they have already lost their freedom of speech under the pretex of "war against terorism" - it takes 3 crazy people to say something bad about somebody, make remark about conection with terorrists and there you go!!! jail, no lawyers no freedom to defend themselves. What's this world come to??

Hope this crazy war stopped very soon and no more killings of civilians (collateral damage)!

Last but not least, I agree with you re: media reports . human shields? Who is going to put his mother, wife or children before them to protect them from US/UK invasion/agression!! This is even crazy to think about it, one should know about family values in the arab world in particular..

All the best and take care, my thought are with you and Iraqi people.

Indira

Pro-War

by Don 8:09am Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44609

I read Rosie's gripping report from Baghdad on Indy Media. American television is showing pictures of Iraqis in liberated cities literally kissing the feet of U.S. and British soldiers. They are also dancing in the streets, throwing kisses to the soldiers and singing songs in praise of George Bush. One old woman in Basra is was shown in TV saying; "Take the oil, but set us free, so we can travel, walk the street without fear and say what we want." Today, Iraq made specticles of some captured U.S. troops, including a young woman, on TV. They also showed dead American troops that they had shot in the forehead. Disgusting. Quite frankly, such scenes have me questioning my opposition to the war. Others may be having the same response. Several polls show American support for the war and the president shooting up to 75 percent in recent days. Displaying captured Amercans on TV is also having an electrifying effect on American public opion - for the war. At our anti-war demonstration in Seattle today there were only 300 people. A pro-war rally accross town drew 7,000! Rosie, do you think the people of Baghdad will welcome American troops as liberators?

Liberate Iraq

by Shadow 8:47am Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44610

With the war underway, whatever anti-Bush momentum has been gained on the ground will likely dissipate if Iraqis welcome American troops as liberators. And in these very initial stages, that's exactly what's happened. The Guardian, a liberal British paper, quoted a sobbing man in Safwan, "You're late. What took you so long? God help you become victorious. I want to say hello to Bush, to shake his hand. We came out of the grave."

United Press International quoted an American pastor who went to Iraq as a human shield and left as a hawk. Iraqis, he said, "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler ... Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill."

Here is the real truth of Iraqi opinion

by some guy 9:03am Mon Mar 24 '03 (Modified on 11:11am Mon Mar 24 '03) comment#44612

Check out: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=FERUN3PDJ0U1ECRBAEZSFFA?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2432337

Here are a few key points from the text that the American McNews has been cutting out of Reuters reports:

>>>>

There is fighting in the center, on the streets. It is terrible," said Hussein, a 24-year-old engineer who works for the state-run southern oil company in Basra.

"We don't want Americans here. This is Iraq."

One group of Iraqi boys on the side of the road smiled and waved as a convoy of British tanks and trucks rolled by.

But once it had passed, leaving a trail of dust and grit in its wake, their smiles turned to scowls.

"We don't want them here," said 17-year-old Fouad, looking angrily up at the plumes of gray smoke rising from Basra.

He pulled a piece of paper from the waistband of his trousers. Unfolding it, he held up a picture of Saddam, showing the Iraqi leader sitting on a throne with a benign smile.

"Saddam is our leader," he said defiantly. "Saddam is good."

>>>>>

I must say Reuters is reporting in an unbiased manner!

They are the first news source I have seen to show dead bodies and print critical remarks from "liberated" iraqis.

Also on their frontpage they have a huge article about how Haliburton is set to profit in a big way from this war.

Wow, real journalism must look like this or something like it.

Of course Reuters isn't generally recommended for public drone consumption that's what information minders like CNN and Foxnews are for. To sanitize it and take out the pictures of body parts and quotes of iraqs disrespecting the new american occupiers.

Check it out i have been pleasantly suprised.

No this is not stealth marketing or any kind of crap like that, if you are currently watching cnn and friends and trying to figure out whats relaly happening give reuters a look. Even the bbc doesn't give it that raw.

Good for you Zelda!

by Sofia 9:34am Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44614

Good for you Zelda, I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm aghast at these plebs who go to American 'news' sites, pull stories off there, and actually believe.

As a journalist, I can tell you for a fact the media has capitulated, not only in this war, but in Afghanastan. Notice how we don't hear anything about Afghani casualties from that war?

How many died in S11? About 3000? I have a friend who was in Afghanastan. The conservative estimate of deaths there is something like 6000, and only a tiny portion of those were involved in any kind of terrorist activity.

The war in Iraq is not only illegal, unjust and immoral, it is a revelation. The American government are trying to confuse the general public with their 'Captain America' stance. Only a fool would believe their rhetoric without further examination. History will be the judge I guess.

To Rosemary: Please keep safe and strong. I commend you and all other human shields for your committment and bravery. Be well.

Sofia is wrong

by Louis 1:13pm Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44632

I spent more than six months in Afganistan last year as a photojournalist for a Paris-based photo agency. Civilian casualities from American and Northern Alliance bombing and shelling is something I did a lot of work on. The best estimate of civilian casualities that I could come up with from people on the ground - Afgans, aid workers, etc. - is about 400. Not 6,000. I've seen many estimates like that. None of them are based on any verifiable evidence.

I think the anti-war movement really discredits itself with such sensational and inaccurate numbers. I photographed an anti-war rally in San Franciso yesterday and a speaker got up and announed that the U.S. had bombed a school in Baghdad and killed 400 children. Incredibly, most people seemed to belived him. When he got down off the podium, I asked him where he got his informtation because my news agency was totally unaware of such a sensational disaser. He looked me in the eye and said, "Oh I just made it up because it's going to happen before this war is over."

If it were the US or any other Nation...

by E. Miesner 1:35pm Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44634

that was getting bombed and invaded, we would see some people fighting to the death, some joining the other side, some fighting as long as they thought they had a half way decent chance of surviving, of course leaders and politicians will, as always decide what is in their best interest and try to cut a deal with their new masters.

question yourself

by nick 1:39pm Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44636

firstly well done Rosemarie keep going, stand up for what you believe in.

“Estimate of deaths there is something like 6000".

Did they save 60,000 people from the Taliban? Ask yourself deep down in side.

I think the problem with the current liberation line, is currently there are no food drops like the Afghanistan war.

Iraqi's want food, water, shelter, protection, some are wary of American motives having be suppressed after the gulf war 1.

If they do not get food they will revolt, strike out or turn to terrorism.

if they don't get 'liberation' all hell will break loose.

Can any anti-war people answer this question?

by Mellian 2:17pm Mon Mar 24 '03 comment#44643

I oppose war, but I am also questioning the thing...the war, the pro-war stance, and even the anti-war stance. So I am curious, can someone effectively answer the question asked in this radio discussion recorded on mp3?

http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3

"There will be civilian deaths in the war. Saddam has killed two million people. There are families here in this country who lost twenty or thirty people on one day in a gas attack by Saddam Hussein, little girl. And I will tell you this: yes civilians will die; my cousins will die, maybe, Allah forbid. But here's a certainty that you do not understand in your simplistic, nickelodeon diplomacy, is that you are guaranteed to have civilians die under Saddam."

-Mohammed 0:43-1:12