Fighting Dirty

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

It is pointless to continue pointing out the same facts. Obviously you are niave, but its understandable that you have fallen victim to this sudden american heroism created by the bias media. I thought I could shed some light on your obviously ignorant comments, but I see its pointless. I guess your now going to tell me how are bombing of Iraq is also a great "showing of regard for human life". I myself am for war, and because of this I will not criticize Iraqi troop tactics. Seriously they are being attacked and bombed, I view their tactics as strategic and necessary actions to take during war. Even quite cunning because the troops that are willing to surrender obviously not on their side. Also the U.S. being kind to P.O.W.s is not a sign of kindness, if you paid any attention to what the overall strategy is of the U.S. it is to change regimes. Now think for one minute before hitting the reply button with another stupid ass comment. Would it be a better tactic to help soldiers, etc whose family and other people of Iraq whose support for American influence will be key into completing the overall task of this war? Or do you honestly think killing them all off will help and not cripple the overall mission? Now this is a serious question please answer, Im curious to see what you think, and not what the local news station tells you?

I think you're missing the big picture

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

I think you're missing the big picture

I dont think anyone including Bush or Sadamm can see the big picture. But if you care to enlighten me, please do. I am quite curious now.

[girly]

Originally posted by starvingartist

It is pointless to continue pointing out the same facts. Obviously you are niave, but its understandable that you have fallen victim to this sudden american heroism created by the bias media. I thought I could shed some light on your obviously ignorant comments, but I see its pointless. I guess your now going to tell me how are bombing of Iraq is also a great "showing of regard for human life". I myself am for war, and because of this I will not criticize Iraqi troop tactics. Seriously they are being attacked and bombed, I view their tactics as strategic and necessary actions to take during war. Even quite cunning because the troops that are willing to surrender obviously not on their side. Also the U.S. being kind to P.O.W.s is not a sign of kindness, if you paid any attention to what the overall strategy is of the U.S. it is to change regimes. Now think for one minute before hitting the reply button with another stupid ass comment. Would it be a better tactic to help soldiers, etc whose family and other people of Iraq whose support for American influence will be key into completing the overall task of this war? Or do you honestly think killing them all off will help and not cripple the overall mission? Now this is a serious question please answer, Im curious to see what you think, and not what the local news station tells you?

:aright:I agree with what you said here .... of course i think that treating the iraqis like humans is part of the plan to win this war but I am sorry I think that americans would treat these people like humans regardless.Especially these men and women that become american soldiers. Those people will kill ANYONE, even their own however they can.. Thats why i will continue to refer to them as animals..

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

I dont think anyone including Bush or Sadamm can see the big picture. But if you care to enlighten me, please do. I am quite curious now.

you can't really leave Saddam alone to make more bio chem or develop nuclear weapons given his track record and his open hatred and blantant threats toward his neighbors and the United States... It's not a pretty solution but it's pretty much the only solution we have left ourselves... if you disagree please tell me how Im wrong.

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by girly

:aright:I am for what you said here .... of course i think that treating the iraqis like humans is part of the plan to win this war but I am sorry I think that americans would treat these people like humans regardless.Especially these men and women that become american soldiers. Those people will kill ANYONE, even their own however they can.. Thats why i will continue to refer to them as animals..

Those people?

Their own?

During war, your either a friend or an enemy.

The only animal I see is you.

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

you can't really leave Saddam alone to make more bio chem or develop nuclear weapons given his track record and his open hatred and blantant threats toward his neighbors and the United States... It's not a pretty solution but it's pretty much the only solution we have left ourselves... if you disagree please tell me how Im wrong.

Obviously you did not read what I wrote but for some reason you quoted me. Ok go back and see if at any point I say anything about being anti-war.

[girly]

Originally posted by starvingartist

Those people?

Their own?

During war, your either a friend or an enemy.

The only animal I see is you.

ok then nice chatting bye bye:)

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

Obviously you did not read what I wrote but for some reason you quoted me. Ok go back and see if at any point I say anything about being anti-war.

Whoops sorry Im tired

it's like this when you say you're going to abide by the geneva convention and then you don't that's fighting dirty.

cause it's dishonest.

at least osama was like yeah Im gonna attack you and he did he was honest about it. these irregulars are like oh I surrender then they attack it's dishonest

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

Whoops sorry Im tired

it's like this when you say you're going to abide by the geneva convention and then you don't that's fighting dirty.

cause it's dishonest.

at least osama was like yeah Im gonna attack you and he did he was honest about it. these irregulars are like oh I surrender then they attack it's dishonest

Dont get me wrong, I understand your point. However all I am saying is that think about the war from another perspective. If in fact these are Iraqi troops surrending to what they believe are American troops. Then can it not be said that they are acting disloyal to the country they are supposed to be serving? That they are in fact breaking a code of ethics in their unit and army force? So the fact that they are killed I dont view as wrong because killing is wrong, like most people are doingm, and then going further as to calling them animals. But I view it as a step Iraqi forces are taking because of disloyalty on behalf of thier military forces. And being a supporter of war means expecting such actions on both sides and not being niave to the fact that U.S. forces are also capable and possibly enacting similar tactics themselves. so then to call Iraqi soldiers animals you would have to call American soldiers animals as well.

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

Dont get me wrong, I understand your point. However all I am saying is that think about the war from another perspective. If in fact these are Iraqi troops surrending to what they believe are American troops. Then can it not be said that they are acting disloyal to the country they are supposed to be serving? That they are in fact breaking a code of ethics in their unit and army force? So the fact that they are killed I dont view as wrong because killing is wrong, like most people are doingm, and then going further as to calling them animals. But I view it as a step Iraqi forces are taking because of disloyalty on behalf of thier military forces. And being a supporter of war means expecting such actions on both sides and not being niave to the fact that U.S. forces are also capable and possibly enacting similar tactics themselves. so then to call Iraqi soldiers animals you would have to call American soldiers animals as well.

your logic is a a little flawed

think about it this way. US troops are saying surrender, Iraqi troops surrender because that's what they believe is best for the country and the people they love. they think that by surrendering they save thier own lives and the lives of the people in the city, thinking they are saveing their country destruction. They are taken and fed and clothed and what ever american troops do to surrendering troops.

now the Republican guard dressed as americans say surrender. first off they aren't americans thats lie number one. the Iraqi troops surrender, Thinking that by surrendering they are saving thier own lives and the lives of the people they love and the lives of people inthe city, thinking they are saving their country from destruction. Then they are executed.

The greater good for the country doesn't mean it's good for the Gov't and what's good for the Gov't doesn't mean it's good for the country.

just because someone is possible of something doesn't meant that they are predisposed and definately going to do something.

what makes you what you are is what you do. not what you are capable of. just because you have a high IQ doesn't make you a scholar. just because you have the ability to save a life doens't make you a hero. you have to Perform inorder to gain that title.

The Iraqi irregulars have performed acts in direct violation with the geneva convention. The US has not. The iraqis have executed POW's the americans have not. The iraqis have killed thier own on the battlefield for what they belive americans have not.

you can't compare the two.

the Iraqi's have acted like animals

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

your logic is a a little flawed

think about it this way. US troops are saying surrender, Iraqi troops surrender because that's what they believe is best for the country and the people they love. they think that by surrendering they save thier own lives and the lives of the people in the city, thinking they are saveing their country destruction. They are taken and fed and clothed and what ever american troops do to surrendering troops.

now the Republican guard dressed as americans say surrender. first off they aren't americans thats lie number one. the Iraqi troops surrender, Thinking that by surrendering they are saving thier own lives and the lives of the people they love and the lives of people inthe city, thinking they are saving their country from destruction. Then they are executed.

The greater good for the country doesn't mean it's good for the Gov't and what's good for the Gov't doesn't mean it's good for the country.

just because someone is possible of something doesn't meant that they are predisposed and definately going to do something.

what makes you what you are is what you do. not what you are capable of. just because you have a high IQ doesn't make you a scholar. just because you have the ability to save a life doens't make you a hero. you have to Perform inorder to gain that title.

The Iraqi irregulars have performed acts in direct violation with the geneva convention. The US has not. The iraqis have executed POW's the americans have not. The iraqis have killed thier own on the battlefield for what they belive americans have not.

you can't compare the two.

the Iraqi's have acted like animals

I dont think my logic is flawed. However you end with the same comment made by someone else in the last page. Instead of circling the whole argument again. If u wish to know why I dont believe it is right to call the enemy animals if you are pro war, then just go reread my previous statements.

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

I dont think my logic is flawed. However you end with the same comment made by someone else in the last page. Instead of circling the whole argument again. If u wish to know why I dont believe it is right to call the enemy animals if you are pro war, then just go reread my previous statements.

how comes you didn't answer my PM

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

how comes you didn't answer my PM

I was about to and then I got an im. Plus I was going to answer with the fact that I prefer anonymity, but then I figured that might come off as rude. ahh c'est la vie. Since I'm coming off rude anyways, Hi my name is Isabella. Note, that is all the info I am willing to disclose, lol.

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

I was about to and then I got an im. Plus I was going to answer with the fact that I prefer anonymity, but then I figured that might come off as rude. ahh c'est la vie. Since I'm coming off rude anyways, Hi my name is Isabella. Note, that is all the info I am willing to disclose, lol.

oh come on you're a very intelligent chick we would have some very lively debates. we should trade IM names. I'll pm you mine you don't have to PM me yours but if you wan't its there if you're woman enough.

BTW very pretty name

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

oh come on you're a very intelligent chick we would have some very lively debates. we should trade IM names. I'll pm you mine you don't have to PM me yours but if you wan't its there if you're woman enough.

BTW very pretty name

thanks for the compliment. However I can be quite stubborn at times, and your obvious attempt of reverse psychology by challenging my femininity is a cheap shot, lol. And because of it, by exchanging pms would I be in a sense, "trying to prove you wrong?" Thats really of little importance anyways because I am quite secure that I am indeed woman enough, actually I would prefer to believe the contrary were true.

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

thanks for the compliment. However I can be quite stubborn at times, and your obvious attempt of reverse psychology by challenging my femininity is a cheap shot, lol. And because of it, by exchanging pms would I be in a sense, "trying to prove you wrong?" Thats really of little importance anyways because I am quite secure that I am indeed woman enough, actually I would prefer to believe the contrary were true.

I appoligize for the cheap shot dear. But I will use my more valuable psychological arsenal if you're worth the the incursion. know what I mean? and our Exchanging IM's you wouldn't be proving me wrong or right but rather rising above the base level of my statement, by being a confident outgoing individual who isn't afraid of being proved wrong from time to time..

the choice is yours.

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

I appoligize for the cheap shot dear. But I will use my more valuable psychological arsenal if you're worth the the incursion. know what I mean? and our Exchanging IM's you wouldn't be proving me wrong or right but rather rising above the base level of my statement, by being a confident outgoing individual who isn't afraid of being proved wrong from time to time..

the choice is yours.

Again you impose an option with a direct value judgement you have pinned up for either choice, lol. Well obviously you have my attention otherwise I wouldnt be responding to your posts. But do you have my interests? Can't exactly say you have caught that yet. It is however not something that comes as easily as making a simple direct request.

[starvingartist]

And I forgot to ask, How can you tell if something, someone, or even a cause is worth the effort until all is said and done. Which brings us back to the subject matter at hand. For example currently I am for war, but after the war when all costs, life and monetary, have been added and weighted and valued against the gains or possible losses, well im not sure If i will be able to answer that it was all worth it? do you?

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

And I forgot to ask, How can you tell if something, someone, or even a cause is worth the effort until all is said and done. Which brings us back to the subject matter at hand. For example currently I am for war, but after the war when all costs, life and monetary, have been added and weighted and valued against the gains or possible losses, well im not sure If i will be able to answer that it was all worth it? do you?

To answer your former post I do belive that we might share some intrests which would give me occasion to pursue further conversation with you. What he have at this juncture is sort of a catch 22. You want to know if I have any of your interests, but in order to find out you're going to have to increase the quality and quantity of conversation. I will admit my judments and bold statements and blatant attempts for you to opine. but I feel they are also an indication of my charachter and sense of levity as well, which I feel would give you further incentive.

secondly I am obviously also for the war but I think your logic is flawed again in weighing the costs and benefits of the out come against the cost and benefits of the action.

I think you need to weigh the costs and benefits of the outcome of the action, against the costs can benefits of the outcome of Inaction.

neither of which are known and are subject to personal opinion and ones imagination.

[siceone]

oh and by the way I only know you're worth it if I engage you if I had taken your "thats all the information I am willing to give" and been inactive I would lose the opportunity to get to know a person who is possibly quite fantastic. now given my standards and the fact I think you might be possibly fantastic eliminates the option of not trying. nothing Ventured nothing gained.

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

oh and by the way I only know you're worth it if I engage you if I had taken your "thats all the information I am willing to give" and been inactive I would lose the opportunity to get to know a person who is possibly quite fantastic. now given my standards and the fact I think you might be possibly fantastic eliminates the option of not trying. nothing Ventured nothing gained.

Funny how you have caught the loop hole in your previous response. Lets go through the whole discussion. First you said you were not sure if I was worth it? Then I asked, how can you possibly know if something is worth it till the end. Apparently you did not even realize I was agreeing that you had too little information to know if I as in fact "worth it". Your response, is you know from the outset that something is worth it. So now I ask you, which one is it?

[siceone]

Originally posted by starvingartist

Funny how you have caught the loop hole in your previous response. Lets go through the whole discussion. First you said you were not sure if I was worth it? Then I asked, how can you possibly know if something is worth it till the end. Apparently you did not even realize I was agreeing that you had too little information to know if I as in fact "worth it". Your response, is you know from the outset that something is worth it. So now I ask you, which one is it?

I purposely put the loop hole there and I didn't say from the outset I know something is worth it I didn't say that at all. it doesn't take very much information for me to figure out if something is worth it or not. so to answer your question Both

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

To answer your former post I do belive that we might share some intrests which would give me occasion to pursue further conversation with you. What he have at this juncture is sort of a catch 22. You want to know if I have any of your interests, but in order to find out you're going to have to increase the quality and quantity of conversation. I will admit my judments and bold statements and blatant attempts for you to opine. but I feel they are also an indication of my charachter and sense of levity as well, which I feel would give you further incentive.

secondly I am obviously also for the war but I think your logic is flawed again in weighing the costs and benefits of the out come against the cost and benefits of the action.

I think you need to weigh the costs and benefits of the outcome of the action, against the costs can benefits of the outcome of Inaction.

neither of which are known and are subject to personal opinion and ones imagination.

Catch 22 is a great book, now I have the sudden urge to reread it. However what we have is definitely not a catch 22. Who do you think I am Yossarin or Orr, hehe. I guess your the doctor?

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by siceone

To answer your former post I do belive that we might share some intrests which would give me occasion to pursue further conversation with you. What he have at this juncture is sort of a catch 22. You want to know if I have any of your interests, but in order to find out you're going to have to increase the quality and quantity of conversation. I will admit my judments and bold statements and blatant attempts for you to opine. but I feel they are also an indication of my charachter and sense of levity as well, which I feel would give you further incentive.

secondly I am obviously also for the war but I think your logic is flawed again in weighing the costs and benefits of the out come against the cost and benefits of the action.

I think you need to weigh the costs and benefits of the outcome of the action, against the costs can benefits of the outcome of Inaction.

neither of which are known and are subject to personal opinion and ones imagination.

well this was your response on how you estimate whether a person, cause, or action are worth it, contradicting the way that I go about it. Now if you weight the action vs the inaction, then would that not be determining an action's worth at the outset? Please explain?

[kramadas]

Starvingartist - great points!

Don't have time to answer in detail right now...will do later. However, I agree, war is war...anything goes since one's survival is at stake. To call only one warring side animals, is the epitome of naivity and stupidity. Reason why the coalition forces act out of "kindness" (note the quotes), is because it suits their purpose, but most importantly because they have that luxury. WHo is to say that, if roles were reversed, the Iraqis won't act that way. Pure speculation.

Remember the revolutionary war, civil war, and most recently Vietnam. Our wonderful, oh-so-goody, American soldiers were responsible for many atrocities.