igloo Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Casualties Are the First Truth of War: And one the public is well prepared to accept. by Peter D. Feaver WARFARE IS ABOUT balancing three goals. On the one hand, you must accomplish military objectives, like seizing territory or destroying enemy forces. On the other hand, you must accomplish political objectives, the larger geopolitical goals that the combat is meant to serve, like stability in the region. On the third hand, you must bring back alive as many of your soldiers as possible. For much of the post-Desert Storm era, the U.S. military has been accused of letting the third goal, force protection, trump the other two. In the Bosnia peacekeeping operation, our NATO allies mocked U.S. forces as ninja turtles, overly laden with body armor and hunkered down on base rather than mixing with the population and keeping the peace. In the Kosovo conflict, questions were raised about General Wesley Clark's zero-casualty, air-only plan, which let Serbian forces run roughshod over Kosovar Albanians and appeared to sacrifice Serbian civilian lives in order to protect the lives of our pilots. The U.S. military acted this way because they believed (rightly) that political leaders demanded it. Political leaders demanded it because they believed (wrongly) that the U.S. public demanded it. The United States conducted warfare as if it had a glass jaw--menacing, but easily beaten if its soldiers fell in battle. The precipitous retreat from Somalia was exhibit A. Lots of people around the world believed casualty phobia was the Achilles' heel of American foreign policy, and some even acted accordingly: Slobodan Milosevic, Osama bin Laden, and now Saddam Hussein. Only this time, the U.S. military is not performing according to that script. This time, no one can credibly claim that the war plan puts U.S. force protection ahead of military or political objectives. On the contrary, the plan is remarkably bold and clearly places rapid achievement of the military goals--like blocking the use of weapons of mass destruction or encircling Baghdad--ahead of force protection. U.S. forces are obviously taking great care to minimize Iraqi casualties and thus serve the larger political objective of restoring stability to Iraq, even if it puts U.S. forces at greater risk. Critics have already surfaced to grouse that the plan is too bold, that Donald Rumsfeld has forced the military into taking too many risks. They worry that the higher casualties will translate into a precipitous decline in public support. Of course, it is too early to know with certainty whether the battle plan is managing the risks appropriately. There are still military and political objectives to be won. But it is not too soon to put to rest the myth that the public demands force protection ahead of mission accomplishment. Polls show that the public understandably views casualties as a necessary evil--tragic at the personal level, but tolerable if suffered in the successful pursuit of an important goal. The public does not demand that we cut and run at the first sight of bodybags, but the sight might cause the public to take a peek at political leaders and do a gut check. If political leaders panic, as they did in the Somalia case, then both support for the mission and tolerance for casualties plummet. Why pay such a price for failure? But if political leaders remain calm and convey confidence that the mission will be successful, then the price can be paid. The Bush administration understands this well and has taken great pains to signal steadfastness of purpose and thus reinforce the military's resolve. Unlike the previous administration, the Bush team has emphasized that victory in Iraq may involve high human costs. It was a theme in the president's first wartime radio address, well before the initial tactical setbacks on Sunday. Every announcement of a casualty is followed up by a reminder that the United States will prevail. Every adverse development, like photos of mistreated American POWs, is used to frame the rationale for the war--Iraq's flouting of international law--rather than frame defeat and confusion on the part of the U.S. military. The early poll results show that the public is getting this message. In a Washington Post-ABC poll taken after bloody Sunday, support for the war remained at 70 percent even though a majority (54 percent) now believed the "United States and its allies will sustain 'significant' casualties in the war." No one in the public was demanding or expecting a cakewalk; roughly 80 percent expected a tough fight for Baghdad. Essentially the same results show up in a CBS-New York Times poll taken Monday, after the news had even more time to sink in. Public support will remain strong, provided that victory is achieved. The sooner the better, of course, but the polls suggest that the public is not unrealistically impatient; nearly half expect the war to last months. That should be plenty of time to discover whether the war plan was daring or foolhardy. In the meantime, the very same presidential resolve that is shoring up public opinion can shore up military confidence. That is why the military accepted a plan that deviated from its conservative roots and put mission accomplishment squarely ahead of force protection. The Vietnam nightmare is a political leadership that starts a war and then hangs the military out to dry when adverse developments arise. Without confidence in the political leadership, the military's natural reluctance to use force can be impossible to overcome. With a political leader as resolute as President Bush, however, the military need not fear this and can focus on their fronts rather than their backs. Peter D. Feaver is associate professor of political science and director of the Triangle Institute for Security Studies at Duke University. His most recent book is "Armed Servants: Agency, Oversight, and Civil-Military Relations" (Harvard University Press). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 igloo - if you want to see the biggest joke of a board go to danny tenaglia's fan message board.....www.dtourism.comunder the "be yourself" section look at the thread "Artists United for Peace".....its the most blantent anti-americanism you have ever seen.....the kid who owns/runs the site is "Farid" and posts the biggest bullshit propoganda you have ever seen.....he even threatens to delete posts and ban members if they post pro-war stuff.....i posted the article about iraqis using children and men.....i must say that i was handed my ass in a way.....i was kinda out of it and posted a retarded response to a worthy opponent....anyway....if you want to go create some chaos start posting on that thread....not the board but the thread....dnice....get that avatar and represent!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 I actually like that thread - ppl from around the world with some extremely good points.(not necessarily the part comparing Bush to Hitler) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishaolin Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by underwater igloo - if you want to see the biggest joke of a board go to danny tenaglia's fan message board.....www.dtourism.comunder the "be yourself" section look at the thread "Artists United for Peace".....its the most blantent anti-americanism you have ever seen.....the kid who owns/runs the site is "Farid" and posts the biggest bullshit propoganda you have ever seen.....he even threatens to delete posts and ban members if they post pro-war stuff.....i posted the article about iraqis using children and men.....i must say that i was handed my ass in a way.....i was kinda out of it and posted a retarded response to a worthy opponent....anyway....if you want to go create some chaos start posting on that thread....not the board but the thread....dnice....get that avatar and represent!! its time to bring the heat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by underwater the kid who owns/runs the site is "Farid" and posts the biggest bullshit propoganda you have ever seen.....he even threatens to delete posts and ban members if they post pro-war stuff..... that guy is more of a joke than normalnoises...i couldnt read anymore bullshit he was spewing...his posts were giving me gas, where did i put those tums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishaolin Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 that guy is more of a joke than normalnoises...i couldnt read anymore bullshit he was spewing...his posts were giving me gas, where did i put those tums? reading his bullshit made my blood pressure rise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 It doesn't hurt to get viewpoints from around the world, instead of just the north east US. I agree, some of the stuff he posts is absurd, but he also posts links to some good articles, that you won't find on CNN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishaolin Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by raver_mania It doesn't hurt to get viewpoints from around the world, instead of just the north east US. I agree, some of the stuff he posts is absurd, but he also posts links to some good articles, that you won't find on CNN. I just very quickly skimmed that thread and it seems like theres Farid and a number of people jammed so far up his ass forcing their ideas and beliefs on the rest of the board... eh a waste of my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 i have to admitt that they do have some very good points of view.......however, farid and satyre are a little over the edge for me.....they also hate when people infilitrate their close "circle" so i think we should bring over all of our crew here just to piss them off.......WAR OF THE MESSAGE BOARDS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by chrishaolin I just very quickly skimmed that thread and it seems like theres Farid and a number of people jammed so far up his ass forcing their ideas and beliefs on the rest of the board... eh a waste of my time. its also has a lot to do with danny tenaglia ranting and raving about how he is against war....anything he says or does they worship....its like a fanatical cult.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishaolin Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by underwater its also has a lot to do with danny tenaglia ranting and raving about how he is against war....anything he says or does they worship....its like a fanatical cult.... I got the exact same impression. One member posted a request to end the thread, (which needs to be done cause its out of control), and he quoted DT's request for peace. I don't agree with that guy at all, on so many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by underwater i have to admitt that they do have some very good points of view.......however, farid and satyre are a little over the edge for me.....they also hate when people infilitrate their close "circle" so i think we should bring over all of our crew here just to piss them off.......WAR OF THE MESSAGE BOARDS!! How did you find that board?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 was looking for info on DT one time and came across it....there is some pretty big industry names that post on there.....great place to see what new tracks are out, international party reviews, ect.....although now i despise that place knowing the a-hole who owns/runs it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Originally posted by underwater its also has a lot to do with danny tenaglia ranting and raving about how he is against war....anything he says or does they worship....its like a fanatical cult.... lol we had similar problems with some guy on the DC board who went on bashing everyone there 'cuzwe all agreed that although DT is one great dj, he should really STFU (or keep his yapping to the very minimal) when he's spinning...memories of the 30 minute monologue last summer during the first DH/DT night at Arc while spinning a 50min remix of "Touch me" still keep me awake at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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