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georgym

You know how Saddam is placing innocent civilians in harms way...

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I think that's just sick. But it should also make the U.S. gov't think--- we can't simply bomb "anything".

We shouldn't be "accidentally" dropping bombs on markets and schools. Something's wrong when day after day the headlines read: "Bombs kill civilians in market". Meanwhile, we're trying to save the people from a dictatorship, we are killing scores of innocent civilians.

And this will only fuel Saddam's arsenal and cause by showing how America is "attacking" rather than "saving"

This is just fucked up :mad:

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Originally posted by gmccookny

We shouldn't be "accidentally" dropping bombs on markets and schools. Something's wrong when day after day the headlines read: "Bombs kill civilians in market".

have they confirmed it was our bomb??

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Originally posted by raver_mania

Not yet, but they're "looking into it" just like they're "looking into" the other market bomb.

after the first market bomb, some reporters were taken to the market and other bomb sights...most reporters stated that the crater in the market bomb was much smaller than the confirmed bombing sights by the US...maybe it was a SCUD? food for thought

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

after the first market bomb, some reporters were taken to the market and other bomb sights...most reporters stated that the crater in the market bomb was much smaller than the confirmed bombing sights by the US...maybe it was a SCUD? food for thought

we will still get blamed for this regardless. This war is getting really messy.

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Originally posted by georgeacasta2

we will still get blamed for this regardless. This war is getting really messy.

yup...but this is a WAR...whether its a right or wrong war..its still WAR...good news is, we are minutes from knocking on Saddam's door...lets hope it will be quick and painless

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

yup...but this is a WAR...whether its a right or wrong war..its still WAR...good news is, we are minutes from knocking on Saddam's door...lets hope it will be quick and painless

i know what you're saying, but now that there have been unplanned surprises (sandstorms, the republican guard repositioning, helicopter accidents, and militia groups regaining control of smaller areas) we are finding this war getting more drawn out.

And the military is well aware of this, and should be acknowledging to the american public that it will be longer than expected, rather than saying "it will last as long as it takes" :blank:

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Originally posted by gmccookny

i know what you're saying, but now that there have been unplanned surprises (sandstorms, the republican guard repositioning, helicopter accidents, and militia groups regaining control of smaller areas) we are finding this war getting more drawn out.

And the military is well aware of this, and should be acknowledging to the american public that it will be longer than expected, rather than saying "it will last as long as it takes" :blank:

agreed...but i mean i think we as Americans are soooo spoiled...what country in the world, invades another country...and in 1 week have the 3/4 of the country under control?? the war has been going for little over a week, and already Americans are grumbling about how long its taking...patience is a virtue....:tongue:

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

yup...but this is a WAR...whether its a right or wrong war..its still WAR...good news is, we are minutes from knocking on Saddam's door...lets hope it will be quick and painless

Middle eastern countries are seeing women and children dying on the news. They have a sense of morality just like we do. The general consensus in the region is that we're invaders NOT liberators. The more this war drags on the more likely tensions will escalate in the region. Syria and Iran are showing signs of involvment already. Rumsfeld had to directly address them today.

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This war in no way has been "messy" How many civilains you think died in the begining of any other war before this... How many you think died during the Germany invasion? Everything we have done is to limit the number of civilian casualties. Do you think this would have been our strategy back in WWII... We would have just dropped as many bombs as we could build and not care who was on the receiving end... Everyone is so in shock of civilain deaths... This is Was and there will be civilian deaths... But they are trying to limit them....

Where do you think Sadam's missles sent to Kuwait were aimed??? Military or civilian??? At least we try to limit the loss of civilian life...

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Originally posted by georgeacasta2

Middle eastern countries are seeing women and children dying on the news. They have a sense of morality just like we do. The general consensus in the region is that we're invaders NOT liberators. The more this war drags on the more likely tensions will escalate in the region. Syria and Iran are showing signs of involvment already. Rumsfeld had to directly address them today.

agreed...but once we take Saddam out...and give aid to those people the Iraqis like the Kuwaitis will see what we are about..besides al-jareeza tv only shows negative news about us...once they see us helping the Iraqis, its gonna be fun to see what they show negatively about us then...this is the only country that i know, that attacks a country with one hand and with the other hands out food and water to people of the same country...

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

agreed...but once we take Saddam out...and give aid to those people the Iraqis like the Kuwaitis will see what we are about..besides al-jareeza tv only shows negative news about us...once they see us helping the Iraqis, its gonna be fun to see what they show negatively about us then...this is the only country that i know, that attacks a country with one hand and with the other hands out food and water to people of the same country...

OYEME!!! shad up and lets go! its 6 already.

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

correct me if i am wrong...but i am getting this feeling, that u wanna walk home??? are u feeling it too??

ehhh.....:worry:

you misunderstood me, my friend. I meant to say its only 6, take as long as you need. after all I am not in a hurry.

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

yup...but this is a WAR...whether its a right or wrong war..its still WAR...good news is, we are minutes from knocking on Saddam's door...lets hope it will be quick and painless

German Builder Says US Bombs Can’t Bust Saddam’s Bunkers

David Crossland, Reuters

BERLIN, 29 March 2003 — The German architect of one of Saddam Hussein’s main bunkers in Baghdad said yesterday the Iraqi leader can survive anything short of a direct hit with a nuclear bomb if he stays within its 1.5-meter thick walls. “It could withstand the shock wave of a nuclear bomb the size of the Hiroshima one detonating 250 meters away,†said Karl Esser, a security consultant who designed the bunker underneath Saddam’s main presidential palace in Baghdad.

US-led troops will also find it hard to fight their way in through its three-ton Swiss-made doors, Esser told Reuters in an interview.

A retired Yugoslav army officer who helped build other bunkers for Saddam also said this week that the shelters were impenetrable and could survive an atomic bomb.

CNN reported yesterday that US B-52 bombers dropped a two ton (4,500 lb) “bunker busting†bomb on the capital for the first time in the campaign.

The palace bunker can accommodate 50 people and has two escape tunnels, one leading 200 meters to the Tigris river.

It was built in 1982 and 1983 by German firm Boswau & Knauer, which merged into what is now the Walter-Bau AG building group. At the time Esser was a consultant for a German government-sponsored civil protection body and had his own company, Schutzraumtechnik Esser GmbH, which supplied equipment for Saddam’s bunker.

Esser said “bunker busting†bombs like the one dropped yesterday would fail to penetrate the 1,800 square-meter bunker because they first have to get though the palace built directly above it.

“The presidential palace above gives natural protection so the bunker can only be cracked by ground troops or a tactical nuclear bomb,†said Esser.

The bunker ceiling itself, made of steel-reinforced concrete and up to two meters thick, was designed to withstand the direct impact of a 230-kg bomb, said Esser.

“It’s not a combat bunker, it’s an air raid shelter, otherwise it would have had to be built with gun slits and a variety of other features,†said Esser. “Ground troops could get in by taking out the doors with bazookas and explosives.†Construction took place at a time when Western companies were legally supplying Saddam with arms and equipment during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Esser remembers giving Saddam a personal tour of the bunker’s features, which include a water tank, electricity generator, air filter, 30 square meter command center and so-called electromagnetic pulse protection system — to shield electrical circuits from the impact of an explosion.

“He was satisfied,†said Esser.

Esser said he had no qualms about having helped to protect a dictator likened to Hitler. “It’s not just one person getting protection, it’s several people, it’s the palace staff as well. I just see it as an achievement of bunker technology,†he said.

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Originally posted by pumavisor808

This war in no way has been "messy" How many civilains you think died in the begining of any other war before this... How many you think died during the Germany invasion? Everything we have done is to limit the number of civilian casualties. Do you think this would have been our strategy back in WWII... We would have just dropped as many bombs as we could build and not care who was on the receiving end... Everyone is so in shock of civilain deaths... This is Was and there will be civilian deaths... But they are trying to limit them....

Where do you think Sadam's missles sent to Kuwait were aimed??? Military or civilian??? At least we try to limit the loss of civilian life...

I know what you're saying,,, this is a war, and there are bound to be some minor civilian casualties.

But seriously, we live in a different age than 50-100 years ago--an age where information is readily available, and where we as humans are simply more sensitive to these kind of things.

The world has seen enough wars. No one wants to repeat World war 1 or 2. That's why the UN and NATO was created.

Plus, like georgeacosta said, it's getting messy not only because we are killing civilians, but that the opposition uses that fact with images and al-JAzeera to make the Iraqi (and general islamic population) believe that we are invading, not liberating.

SO yes, this war is getting more messy than planned. Not for the fact that we hit civilians, but that the images are manipulateed by the Iraqi government to influence it's people that we are attacking, not liberating, which therefore makes our mission that much more difficult.

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Originally posted by mrmatas2277

after the first market bomb, some reporters were taken to the market and other bomb sights...most reporters stated that the crater in the market bomb was much smaller than the confirmed bombing sights by the US...maybe it was a SCUD? food for thought

the crater was 1 meter wide by 1 meter deep.. my money is on an anti aircraft artilery shell that fell back in on the city..

the iraqi air defence marshall was replaced by the way

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Originally posted by gmccookny

SO yes, this war is getting more messy than planned. Not for the fact that we hit civilians, but that the images are manipulateed by the Iraqi government to influence it's people that we are attacking, not liberating, which therefore makes our mission that much more difficult.

Not to Flame you Papa smurf cause you know I love you...

but you don't know what the plan was

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Originally posted by siceone

the crater was 1 meter wide by 1 meter deep.. my money is on an anti aircraft artilery shell that fell back in on the city..

my money goes on likewise.

Over baghdad we've dropped either GBU units, or used cruise missiles such as the tomahawk, the SMALLEST of which weigh in the 500lb area. Of that 500lb, most bombs contain ~300 lbs of high explosive.

That kind of bang makes a hole much larger than a meter wide and deep.

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