obby Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 What an awesome showing of God's power and protection. Read on...I am sure that all of you heard about the sandstorm in Iraq during the second week (the worst in 100 years some say) and the drenching rain that followed the next day. Our troops were bogged down and couldn't move effectively.The media was already wondering if the troops were in a "quagmire" and dire predictions of gloom and doom came from the left wing media. What they didn't report was that, after the weather had cleared, the Marine group that was mired the worst looked out at the plain they were just about to cross. What did they see? Hundreds if not thousands of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines had been uncovered by the wind and then washed off by the rain. If they had proceeded as planned, many lives would have undoubtedly been lost.As it was, they simply drove around them and let the demolition teams destroy them.Praises be to His mighty name! Thank you God, for protecting our young men and women!One person once asked George Washington if he thought God was on his side. His reply is reported to be, "It is not that God should be on our side, but that we be on His."P.S. In God we trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryke303 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 well said obby! don't be afraid of lovin the big guy upstairs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeacasta2 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 I saw many pictures of children that were hurt and or killed by bombs and gunfights. Was god not watching over them???? IMO, that was random event that worked out in our favor. The soldiers that died when the 507th took a wrong turn and was ambushed was also a random event that didn't work out in our favor. These events are completely random and not proof that god approves of our war and is trying to help the US win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by obby What an awesome showing of God's power and protection. Read on...I am sure that all of you heard about the sandstorm in Iraq during the second week (the worst in 100 years some say) and the drenching rain that followed the next day. Our troops were bogged down and couldn't move effectively.The media was already wondering if the troops were in a "quagmire" and dire predictions of gloom and doom came from the left wing media. What they didn't report was that, after the weather had cleared, the Marine group that was mired the worst looked out at the plain they were just about to cross. What did they see? Hundreds if not thousands of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines had been uncovered by the wind and then washed off by the rain. If they had proceeded as planned, many lives would have undoubtedly been lost.As it was, they simply drove around them and let the demolition teams destroy them.Praises be to His mighty name! Thank you God, for protecting our young men and women!One person once asked George Washington if he thought God was on his side. His reply is reported to be, "It is not that God should be on our side, but that we be on His."P.S. In God we trust interpreting god's intentions.. very intriguing.. I don't know wether to be baffled or insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funketeer Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by georgeacasta2 I saw many pictures of children that were hurt and or killed by bombs and gunfights. Was god not watching over them???? IMO, that was random event that worked out in our favor. The soldiers that died when the 507th took a wrong turn and was ambushed was also a random event that didn't work out in our favor. These events are completely random and not proof that god approves of our war and is trying to help the US win. I'm with GA2 on this one...God would never take sides, nor approve war...war is absolutely human and has nothing of divine.peace in the middle yeastFunketeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by funketeer I'm with GA2 on this one...God would never take sides, nor approve war...war is absolutely human and has nothing of divine. Really?? should i bust out the B-I-B-L-E...war was used many times by Israel and approved by God (supposedly)...but thats another TV show altogether... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eKiTeL Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 like someone said here the war is just about POWER, and one tried and true method for wielding power is to convince everybody that God is on your side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by eKiTeL like someone said here the war is just about POWER, and one tried and true method for wielding power is to convince everybody that God is on your side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeacasta2 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Who was watching over the innocents that died? Was god actively watching over some of our army and just some of the innocents but not all. Why did some die and others not? Was the faith of most of the 507th not strong enough so god decided they should die while many in 101st airborne should live? This storm is not proof of gods will to protect our army, it's proof of our finite minds arrogant interpretation of gods will.. Every side that's in a war claims it's right and god is on their side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by georgeacasta2 Who was watching over the innocents that died? Was god actively watching over some of our army and just some of the innocents but not all. Why did some die and others not? Was the faith of most of the 507th not strong enough so god decided they should die while many in 101st airborne should live? This storm is not proof of gods will to protect our army, it's proof of our finite minds arrogant interpretation of gods will.. Every side that's in a war claims it's right and god is on their side. some people must die and others must live...its plain and simple...i am not God or pretend to understand Him...why does one regiment suffer less casualities than another? why does this innocent person live and this one die? who knows i am not God...and it is fool hearted to attempt to even rationalize... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeacasta2 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 who knows i am not God...and it is fool hearted to attempt to even rationalize... I agree. Rationalizing this dust storm as proof of god's will is fool hearted.Here's what obby wrote:What an awesome showing of God's power and protection. One person once asked George Washington if he thought God was on his side. His reply is reported to be, "It is not that God should be on our side, but that we be on His." How do we know how to get on god's side without rationalizing his motives or making sense of seemingly random events? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 It is a constant struggle for power … instead of peace … When the US raises its voice to Syria and North Korea … they are doing so with proven facts of their power (military) … the only power greater than God itself on the earth we live …There are two clear evidencies here … on one side … the proof that if you don’t agree with our pressure … you could be next … the second is the “distrust†to our intentions as seen in the rest of the world … threatening Syria … and not doing anything after … could prove OUR moral intention of bringing democracy and freedom to the Iraqui … so long oppressed by Saddam … But there is also the other side of the story … what Arabs have taken as the anti-american sentiment … the passiveness of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict … When by diplomatic and civilized means a side can’t achieve their “just†demands … they find no solution other than hostility …. This is the same concept why we went into Iraq … Saddam should had gone a long time ago … but his stand against the US and his constant threat to Israel … brought that power leverage to the table for the Arabs … today … Syria’s opposition to arms inspection has one clear demand … Israel shouldn’t have them either … thus bringing up the same end result … “what’s up with Israel†…Last month we had to go into Iraq without support from most Arab nations and Western European countries … the same who yesterday in Athens agreed for a UN intervention in post-war Iraq … the same who don’t want to grant an immediate embargo lift to Iraq … “Until Iraq can prove they have no WMD†… as sacrcastic as it sounds … embargoes mean trade … the essence of our own economic philosophy …The military outcome of the war was never in doubt … the length of the war or number of casualties could differ greatly … but one thing is clear at this point … the diplomatic effort to support our actions failed … which could mean that Iraq had a diplomatic edge over us … but most importantly the Arab cause had an edge in post-war Iraq’s middle-east reality …And this is the cause Arabs were looking for … now the Israeli-Palestinian conflict comes to the table … the US will be forced to find a solution … because THIS is the cause for anti-american sentiment in the region … of distrust for our just democratic dreams for the region … this is the main cause of terrorism … for them American presence in the middle east is seen as support for Israel in their footsteps … We all condemn violence (being war one of its forms) … under some circumstance we can justify it to achieve our ends … So have the Arabs … Without this confrontations towards the US and Israel … Arab’s voice would never have been heard … the “unjustifiable†violence of the Palestininas became their only POWER grip … supporting a dictator as Saddam was the only POWER grip for Arabs, and it is called anti-americanism …. each side’s best interest has been put on the table … for a long time … it took violence and concessions to get to this point …Conclusion … we want democracy and allies in the middle east … Arabs want a solution to the Isareli-Palestinian conflict …We all have our God … and he is the same one for all … call it how ever you want to call him …http://www.msnbc.com/news/900547.asp?0cb=-31e133692 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obby Posted April 18 Author Report Share Posted April 18 funketeergeorgeacasta2 sobetonOkay,,You are right,,,but not completely and here's why:OF COURSE, no true religion of peace would claim God would condone a war. War is Hell. People die. The message I took from that post was that after learning over 1 million Muslims were killed as a result of the Saddam regime and their tyrannical rule, it's refreshing to see that GOOD does, can and should always conquer EVIL. America did not target civilians. America does not do that, regardless whatever conspiracy theories you hear or read from the likes of Al-Jazeera or Neil Rogers. It was Saddam and his regime who chose to hide in masques, hospitals, schools and residential neighborhoods. There has never, in the history of war been a more precise and accurate bombing campaign than what we witnessed for 3 weeks in Iraq. There was a plethora of leaflets and radio broadcasts into Iraq pleading that the Iraqi civilians do their best to stay out of harms way. Many civilians had their homes taken over by Iraqi soldiers and supporters for the sole reason of maximizing civilian casualties. There were civilians who were murdered and dragged through the streets for all to see as a deterrent. Iraqi soldiers fired at mobs of Iraqi civilians to keep them in check. The "market bombing" has been found to have been result of a car bombing, not a rogue coalition missile as initially reported. And so on, and so on and so on. I agree, the loss of innocent life is tragic, but during war, always inevitable. Even so, that is still no reason to not fight for what is right. For what is good. For freedom!!!!! To leave Saddam alone would have been the greater tragedy which history would not have judged us kindly for. The rhetoric about not finishing the job the first time is proof of how America was judged for not expanding Desert Storm into a mission of both expelling Saddam from Kuwait and regime change. The pattern I read from those who've been opposed to this from the get-go does bother me a little bit. The focus seems to be on blaming Bush and America first, completely ignoring the atrocities the Iraqi people have had to endure for decades. I feel some here are a little misguided and void of logic or reason. Anyone who truly understand war and it's history knows it's terrible, but as history has proven, sometimes extremely necessary. We are all human beings. Humans have been fighting and killing each other since the beginning of time. More humans have perished over differences of religion than for any other reason. War, although terrible, are part of humanity. Always have been and probably, sadly, always will be. If not for WARS, blacks would still be enslaved. Nazi's and Communist would rule the world today! So, for all those who refuse to accept WAR as being an integral part of humanity, I don't know what else I could say.As an American, I consider this war on terrorism to be a true battle between good and evil. I don't see how some could actually classify America as the evil and terrorism as good? So, when I posted what I did about God, I meant God must have been on the side of GOOD, not EVIL. The long, dragged out war which so many wrongly predicted never happened. That makes me feel as if the horrible things that come w/ WAR were minimized. I'd like to believe that it was for a reason. Where you might wrongly assume America is out kill Iraqi civilians, I beg to differ and must remind you we were fighting the Saddam Regime, not the Iraqi civilians!!!! To only cite examples of civilian deaths, which for the most part are the result of Saddam's "tactics", while glossing over the magnanimous effort put forth by the coalition to avoid such tragic events indicates either a lack of complete comprehension, misguided logic and possibly a morally bankrupt leftist agenda. That, to me is TRAGIC!Did I mean God was sitting on the bleachers in heaven, sipping on a coke while munchin' on peanuts cheering for America to "kill all the Iraqi civilians"??? Of course not,,,c'mon now,,,,get that crap out of your head. Lets try thinking w/ our heads and not our hearts. Like I said before, America was never attacked because we were perceive as being STRONG,,,,we were attacked because we were perceived as being a "PAPER TIGER", weak and unable to stomach the realities of war. I blame our recent foreign policy failures like Somalia, 1993 WTC bombing, USS Cole, Hollywood celebs, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton fanning the flames of American hatred both abroad and here @ home prior, during and now after this issue w/ Iraq. America threatened to bring those guilty to justice but never did. To say you mean something and to show you mean it are 2 completely different animals. For a decade, we have been all talk, no action. NOT ANY MORE! THANK GOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by obby REMEMBER, EVERYTHING AMERICA HAS TODAY IT HAS EARNED THROUGH COURAGE, SACRIFICE AND DETERMINATION! add intimidation, stealing, bartering, and sustaining. but it’s all good. clearly there is a thin line between "America Hating", and identifying, understanding and learning from your past experiences.failure to recognize the same, could make one seem a bit arrogant in the eyes of some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by obby funketeergeorgeacasta2 sobetonOkay,,You are right,,,but not completely and here's why:OF COURSE, no true religion of peace would claim God would condone a war. War is Hell. People die. The message I took from that post was that after learning over 1 million Muslims were killed as a result of the Saddam regime and their tyrannical rule, it's refreshing to see that GOOD does, can and should always conquer EVIL. America did not target civilians. America does not do that, regardless whatever conspiracy theories you hear or read from the likes of Al-Jazeera or Neil Rogers. It was Saddam and his regime who chose to hide in masques, hospitals, schools and residential neighborhoods. There has never, in the history of war been a more precise and accurate bombing campaign than what we witnessed for 3 weeks in Iraq. There was a plethora of leaflets and radio broadcasts into Iraq pleading that the Iraqi civilians do their best to stay out of harms way. Many civilians had their homes taken over by Iraqi soldiers and supporters for the sole reason of maximizing civilian casualties. There were civilians who were murdered and dragged through the streets for all to see as a deterrent. Iraqi soldiers fired at mobs of Iraqi civilians to keep them in check. The "market bombing" has been found to have been result of a car bombing, not a rogue coalition missile as initially reported. And so on, and so on and so on. I agree, the loss of innocent life is tragic, but during war, always inevitable. Even so, that is still no reason to not fight for what is right. For what is good. For freedom!!!!! To leave Saddam alone would have been the greater tragedy which history would not have judged us kindly for. The rhetoric about not finishing the job the first time is proof of how America was judged for not expanding Desert Storm into a mission of both expelling Saddam from Kuwait and regime change. The pattern I read from those who've been opposed to this from the get-go does bother me a little bit. The focus seems to be on blaming Bush and America first, completely ignoring the atrocities the Iraqi people have had to endure for decades. I feel some here are a little misguided and void of logic or reason. Anyone who truly understand war and it's history knows it's terrible, but as history has proven, sometimes extremely necessary. We are all human beings. Humans have been fighting and killing each other since the beginning of time. More humans have perished over differences of religion than for any other reason. War, although terrible, are part of humanity. Always have been and probably, sadly, always will be. If not for WARS, blacks would still be enslaved. Nazi's and Communist would rule the world today! So, for all those who refuse to accept WAR as being an integral part of humanity, I don't know what else I could say.As an American, I consider this war on terrorism to be a true battle between good and evil. I don't see how some could actually classify America as the evil and terrorism as good? So, when I posted what I did about God, I meant God must have been on the side of GOOD, not EVIL. The long, dragged out war which so many wrongly predicted never happened. That makes me feel as if the horrible things that come w/ WAR were minimized. I'd like to believe that it was for a reason. Where you might wrongly assume America is out kill Iraqi civilians, I beg to differ and must remind you we were fighting the Saddam Regime, not the Iraqi civilians!!!! To only cite examples of civilian deaths, which for the most part are the result of Saddam's "tactics", while glossing over the magnanimous effort put forth by the coalition to avoid such tragic events indicates either a lack of complete comprehension, misguided logic and possibly a morally bankrupt leftist agenda. That, to me is TRAGIC!Did I mean God was sitting on the bleachers in heaven, sipping on a coke while munchin' on peanuts cheering for America to "kill all the Iraqi civilians"??? Of course not,,,c'mon now,,,,get that crap out of your head. Lets try thinking w/ our heads and not our hearts. Like I said before, America was never attacked because we were perceive as being STRONG,,,,we were attacked because we were perceived as being a "PAPER TIGER", weak and unable to stomach the realities of war. I blame our recent foreign policy failures like Somalia, 1993 WTC bombing, USS Cole, Hollywood celebs, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton fanning the flames of American hatred both abroad and here @ home prior, during and now after this issue w/ Iraq. America threatened to bring those guilty to justice but never did. To say you mean something and to show you mean it are 2 completely different animals. For a decade, we have been all talk, no action. NOT ANY MORE! THANK GOD! nice editing… you’re a very intriguing individual. when you are presented with actual facts, as other people, and myself have brought to your attention, on a number of occasions. you reject them out of hand. imo in accepting facts prima facie. it would cause you to reject your own beliefs. which you hold onto dearly, regardless of wether your right or wrong. in any case I respect the same, but I get the feeling you don't. continuing to debate the same issues, over and over again, would obviously prove to be pointless. so I’ll leave it at that. with the hope that you will do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obby Posted April 18 Author Report Share Posted April 18 I couldn't have said it better myself.Ditto on every single word you just wrote.Sayonara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obby Posted April 18 Author Report Share Posted April 18 I couldn't have said it better myself.Ditto on every single word you just wrote.Sayonara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeacasta2 Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by obby I couldn't have said it better myself.Ditto on every single word you just wrote.Sayonara Your post gave me an upset stomach. I'll respond to it when I have more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by obby I couldn't have said it better myself. exactly.. that's why I said it. peace out bro it's all good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjoebudious Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 has celebrity death match done an Allah vs. God or J.C. claymation yet?here's another weird one. When Tony Blair was flying to the US to meet with dubya, his plane was struck by lightning (Do...Do...Do.....Do...twilight zone theme) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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