US pullout of Saudi Arabia: Good or Bad

[igloo]

With the pull out of troops out of Saudi Arabia, do you think:

(1) bin Laden claims victory, saying that his operations led to a US pull out (this was his #1 reason against the US)

or

(2) bib Laden lost a major recruitment spin, and a troop pull-out furthers US long term interests in the region that the US is not looking to occupy the ME, and that we were only in Saudi Arabia to protect the Kingdom against Iraq

Tuesday, April 29, 2003

PRINCE SULTAN AIR BASE, Saudi Arabia — In the first major step in a post-Iraq war reorganization of American military forces in the Persian Gulf, the United States has moved an air operation center from Saudi Arabia to Qatar.

Control of military flights in and around Iraq moved on Monday from Prince Sultan to Qatar's al-Udeid air base, said Rear Adm. Dave Nichols, deputy commander of the center.

Nearly all of the 4,500 Air Force personnel and 100 U.S. planes based here will be gone by the end of the summer, he said.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and officials traveling with him said the U.S. military will remain in Saudi Arabia, but with a much smaller force focused primarily on training the Saudi military.

Rumsfeld spoke to troops in a hangar Tuesday morning after landing in the middle of a sandstorm after a flight from Qatar, thanking them for their efforts in overthrowing the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Before moving on to Riyadh for talks later Tuesday with top Saudi leaders, Rumsfeld told the troops that "we do intend to maintain a continuing and healthy relationship with the Saudis."

Saudi officials have been uneasy about the presence of U.S. troops in their country since the 1991 war with Iraq, as shown by their attempts to stifle news that American commanders were running the Iraq air war from the Prince Sultan base.

U.S. officials say moving the air operations center should not be seen as evidence of a rift between the two nations. Instead, they say, it's part of an inevitable repositioning of U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf region now that one of its main military threats — Saddam's regime — is gone.

After meeting with Rumsfeld Tuesday, Saudi defense minister Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz said military cooperation between the two countries would continue. He said the U.S. withdrawal from the air base named after him "does not mean we requested them to leave Saudi Arabia."

Gen. Tommy Franks, who commanded the Iraq war from a base in Qatar, had signaled the move earlier, noting that both the Prince Sultan and al-Udeid bases have the high-tech equipment needed for American commanders to simultaneously keep track of hundreds of air missions over Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries in the region.

Rumsfeld is touring the region this week to talk with allies before reaching final decisions. He met Monday with Qatar's leader, Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, who allowed the U.S. headquarters for the war to be built near here.

"Iraq was a threat in the region, and because that threat will be gone, we also will be able to rearrange our forces," Rumsfeld said after meeting with Thani and Australian Defense Minister Robert Hill.

The presence of American soldiers in Saudi Arabia, the land of Islam's two holiest shrines, has enraged some militant Muslims. It is among the reasons given by Usama bin Laden, the Saudi-born fugitive who heads the Al Qaeda terror network, for his hatred of the United States.

Tens of thousands of American service members were stationed in the region before the war with Iraq. Air Force and Navy aircraft patrolled no-fly zones over Iraq. Army soldiers and Marines held exercises in Kuwait as a warning to Saddam. Naval vessels patrolled the gulf, helping to look for ships violating the U.N. embargo against Iraq.

Prince Sultan had been used to control planes patrolling the southern no-fly zone, and operation the Pentagon called Operation Southern Watch.

"Now that Southern Watch has ended, there's no reason for us to be here, at least in the way we are now," said Air Force Gen. Ron Rand.

Rand and other U.S. officials here said no decision had been made on whether the Prince Sultan base would be kept "warm" — staffed with a skeleton crew and ready to be quickly prepared for use.

"Nothing's going to be torn down," Nichols said. "It will remain wired, but most of the computers and whatnot will be taken out."

Once Iraq is stabilized, the number of U.S. troops in the region should drop, Rumsfeld said Monday. He added he does not want to have permanent U.S. access to military bases inside Iraq.

Although Rumsfeld has insisted he is not on a "victory tour," he basked Monday in the American military success.

In a U.S. military warehouse at Camp As Sayliyah, Franks' headquarters for the three-week war, Rumsfeld told cheering troops their triumph will influence military spending and doctrine for decades.

The military, he said, used "an unprecedented combination of power, precision, speed, flexibility and, I would add, compassion."

"You protected our country from a gathering danger and liberated the Iraqi people," Rumsfeld said. Later, he added, "You liberated a country, but how you did it will help transform the way we defend our country in the 21st century."

Rumsfeld met with Hill, the Australian defense minister, at a luxury hotel at the edge of the Persian Gulf.

After their meeting, Hill said Australia, which contributed several thousand troops to the war effort, was looking for ways to help during the postwar phase in Iraq. Most of that help would come in "niche operations" such as helping with the hunt for chemical and biological weapons, he said.

Fifty Australian air traffic controllers are headed to Baghdad International Airport to help coordinate humanitarian aid flights, Hill said.

[cintron]

good thing. Great thing, actually.

one, because we won't haave to listen to shithead whiny terrorists like Bin Laden bitching about our "unholy infidel feet on god blessed land".

two, because it shows we keep our word - we agreed to withdraw once the conflict in Iraq was ended. So we did.

Three, because it takes the Saudi leadership out of the fire. Since the gulf war, they've had to walk a tightrope between supporting us, and being supportive of many of their citizens, most of whom abhore the idea of "infidels" on "holy ground".

So now they're off the hook and can go about business as usual.

[mr mahs]

Like Cintron Pointed out it's good that we have kept our word in withdrawing from Saudi Arabia especially if we want to win the hearts of the arabs in the region... I do remember reading that we will train their military..

The base in Qatar is better and we have been hired to protect their gas companies from terrorist threats..

[t0nythelover]

we should have pulled out of saudi a long ass time ago. thats part of the reason why the u.s. is the target of terrorism. bin laden is from saudi, not afghanistan and part of the reason (supposedly) that 9/11 happened is because of us troops in saudi. looks like bin laden had a great victory on 9/11 and got what he wanted. he was never found and we havent even begun to win any victories on the "war on terror" which we stopped fighting after afghanistan.

i think we should take all our troops out of the middle east and secure our own homeland instead of wasting money on b.s. like wars in iraq, but you all probably know my opinion already.

i just feel that if im going to pay taxes to a govt they should use that money on me and not on some foreign bullshit that doesnt matter, hey by the way whats up with the hydrogen car business, has anyone heard anything about that?

[cintron]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

we should have pulled out of saudi a long ass time ago. thats part of the reason why the u.s. is the target of terrorism. bin laden is from saudi, not afghanistan and part of the reason (supposedly) that 9/11 happened is because of us troops in saudi. looks like bin laden had a great victory on 9/11 and got what he wanted. he was never found and we havent even begun to win any victories on the "war on terror" which we stopped fighting after afghanistan.

i think we should take all our troops out of the middle east and secure our own homeland instead of wasting money on b.s. like wars in iraq, but you all probably know my opinion already.

i just feel that if im going to pay taxes to a govt they should use that money on me and not on some foreign bullshit that doesnt matter, hey by the way whats up with the hydrogen car business, has anyone heard anything about that?

I agree, but remember Saudi was the one who invited us originally, during the first Gulf War. We stuck around b/c we were waiting for Saddam to fulfill the terms of the ceasefire - weapons inspection, dismantling military equip and other stuff that would've resulted in sanctions being lifted and our presence not being required.

Alas, he was an asshole about it. We weren't planning on staying in the middle east permanently anyway, so Bin Laden just turned out to be an impatient asshole cum murderer and international dirtbag extraordinaire.

as for hydrogen cars - they're working on it. It's going to take a while though. Technology's being refined but it's not quite where it needs to be for mass production.

Plus, we're all addicted to petroleum fuels - and of course, horsepower

[igloo]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

we havent even begun to win any victories on the "war on terror" which we stopped fighting after afghanistan.

i think we should take all our troops out of the middle east and secure our own homeland instead of wasting money on b.s. like wars in iraq, but you all probably know my opinion already.

i just feel that if im going to pay taxes to a govt they should use that money on me and not on some foreign bullshit that doesnt matter,

Are you serious with these statements?...Do you really believe what you are sayin here?

tonythelover---you and I have had our battles over our differing opinions but c'mon--elevate your frame of thinking....you can;t possibly believe with any confidence that the "war on terror" has not had significant success, or that Iraq was not just "some foreign bullshit that doesn't matter"...

I know you were against the war, and you are certainly anti-Bush...but sometimes it is necessary to give credit when credit is due....and the upside from recent actions is enormous--you can not discount this

[siceone]

I think this is a good thing I think it will force the saudi royal family to do more for it's people and perhaps install democratic Gov't I think they should pay for the air bases we built too.

[igloo]

Gool ol'CNN already presenting this development as a win for Al-Qaeda....

Fox News contributor presenting this as the beginning to a new US approach with Saudi Arabia....one that does not bode well for the Saudi's

[siceone]

Let them think they have one the saudi Gov't is going to become more oppressive than ever if the saudi people step out of line.

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by cintron

I agree, but remember Saudi was the one who invited us originally, during the first Gulf War. We stuck around b/c we were waiting for Saddam to fulfill the terms of the ceasefire - weapons inspection, dismantling military equip and other stuff that would've resulted in sanctions being lifted and our presence not being required.

Alas, he was an asshole about it. We weren't planning on staying in the middle east permanently anyway, so Bin Laden just turned out to be an impatient asshole cum murderer and international dirtbag extraordinaire.

as for hydrogen cars - they're working on it. It's going to take a while though. Technology's being refined but it's not quite where it needs to be for mass production.

Plus, we're all addicted to petroleum fuels - and of course, horsepower

aaah, i guess that makes sense but still, once saddam was out of kuwait we could have bounced. so i guess bin laden should be mad at saddam for us being there haha. if hydrogen cars crash will they still blow up? i think we could have a new source of energy if we really needed it, but oil keeps whitey oil barons rich.

igloo-yes i beleive my statements, we havent done jack on terrorism because terrorism is not a nation that you can attack. sure we attacked the taliban but bin laden is the billionaire who funded everything, and we armed the afghanis, so isnt it really a war to take power away from those we gave power to once they can no longer serve us? same thing happened in iraq and south america. we create dictatorships by supporting "freedom fighters" then call them terrorist so we can take them out of power again. igloo seriously we should have drinks together and discuss politics (not being sarcastic) because id like to hear your views.

so will there ever be a cp meetup???

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by igloo

With the pull out of troops out of Saudi Arabia, do you think:

(1) bin Laden claims victory, saying that his operations led to a US pull out (this was his #1 reason against the US)

or

(2) bib Laden lost a major recruitment spin, and a troop pull-out furthers US long term interests in the region that the US is not looking to occupy the ME, and that we were only in Saudi Arabia to protect the Kingdom against Iraq

Tuesday, April 29, 2003

PRINCE SULTAN AIR BASE, Saudi Arabia — In the first major step in a post-Iraq war reorganization of American military forces in the Persian Gulf, the United States has moved an air operation center from Saudi Arabia to Qatar.

Control of military flights in and around Iraq moved on Monday from Prince Sultan to Qatar's al-Udeid air base, said Rear Adm. Dave Nichols, deputy commander of the center.

Nearly all of the 4,500 Air Force personnel and 100 U.S. planes based here will be gone by the end of the summer, he said.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and officials traveling with him said the U.S. military will remain in Saudi Arabia, but with a much smaller force focused primarily on training the Saudi military.

Rumsfeld spoke to troops in a hangar Tuesday morning after landing in the middle of a sandstorm after a flight from Qatar, thanking them for their efforts in overthrowing the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Before moving on to Riyadh for talks later Tuesday with top Saudi leaders, Rumsfeld told the troops that "we do intend to maintain a continuing and healthy relationship with the Saudis."

Saudi officials have been uneasy about the presence of U.S. troops in their country since the 1991 war with Iraq, as shown by their attempts to stifle news that American commanders were running the Iraq air war from the Prince Sultan base.

U.S. officials say moving the air operations center should not be seen as evidence of a rift between the two nations. Instead, they say, it's part of an inevitable repositioning of U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf region now that one of its main military threats — Saddam's regime — is gone.

After meeting with Rumsfeld Tuesday, Saudi defense minister Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz said military cooperation between the two countries would continue. He said the U.S. withdrawal from the air base named after him "does not mean we requested them to leave Saudi Arabia."

Gen. Tommy Franks, who commanded the Iraq war from a base in Qatar, had signaled the move earlier, noting that both the Prince Sultan and al-Udeid bases have the high-tech equipment needed for American commanders to simultaneously keep track of hundreds of air missions over Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries in the region.

Rumsfeld is touring the region this week to talk with allies before reaching final decisions. He met Monday with Qatar's leader, Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, who allowed the U.S. headquarters for the war to be built near here.

"Iraq was a threat in the region, and because that threat will be gone, we also will be able to rearrange our forces," Rumsfeld said after meeting with Thani and Australian Defense Minister Robert Hill.

The presence of American soldiers in Saudi Arabia, the land of Islam's two holiest shrines, has enraged some militant Muslims. It is among the reasons given by Usama bin Laden, the Saudi-born fugitive who heads the Al Qaeda terror network, for his hatred of the United States.

Tens of thousands of American service members were stationed in the region before the war with Iraq. Air Force and Navy aircraft patrolled no-fly zones over Iraq. Army soldiers and Marines held exercises in Kuwait as a warning to Saddam. Naval vessels patrolled the gulf, helping to look for ships violating the U.N. embargo against Iraq.

Prince Sultan had been used to control planes patrolling the southern no-fly zone, and operation the Pentagon called Operation Southern Watch.

"Now that Southern Watch has ended, there's no reason for us to be here, at least in the way we are now," said Air Force Gen. Ron Rand.

Rand and other U.S. officials here said no decision had been made on whether the Prince Sultan base would be kept "warm" — staffed with a skeleton crew and ready to be quickly prepared for use.

"Nothing's going to be torn down," Nichols said. "It will remain wired, but most of the computers and whatnot will be taken out."

Once Iraq is stabilized, the number of U.S. troops in the region should drop, Rumsfeld said Monday. He added he does not want to have permanent U.S. access to military bases inside Iraq.

Although Rumsfeld has insisted he is not on a "victory tour," he basked Monday in the American military success.

In a U.S. military warehouse at Camp As Sayliyah, Franks' headquarters for the three-week war, Rumsfeld told cheering troops their triumph will influence military spending and doctrine for decades.

The military, he said, used "an unprecedented combination of power, precision, speed, flexibility and, I would add, compassion."

"You protected our country from a gathering danger and liberated the Iraqi people," Rumsfeld said. Later, he added, "You liberated a country, but how you did it will help transform the way we defend our country in the 21st century."

Rumsfeld met with Hill, the Australian defense minister, at a luxury hotel at the edge of the Persian Gulf.

After their meeting, Hill said Australia, which contributed several thousand troops to the war effort, was looking for ways to help during the postwar phase in Iraq. Most of that help would come in "niche operations" such as helping with the hunt for chemical and biological weapons, he said.

Fifty Australian air traffic controllers are headed to Baghdad International Airport to help coordinate humanitarian aid flights, Hill said.

Igloo, I like the source for this information. Can you please furnish that?

[cintron]

goddamn you there should be a limit on how long you're allowed to quote.

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by cintron

goddamn you there should be a limit on how long you're allowed to quote.

AGAIN!! DO NOT EVER TELL ME HOW TO POST!

Wanna do something about it??????

[cintron]

Originally posted by normalnoises

AGAIN!! DO NOT EVER TELL ME HOW TO POST!

Wanna do something about it??????

LOL. I laugh, for you are a lesser man.

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by cintron

LOL. I laugh, for you are a lesser man.

I laugh, for you are a pussy. Now shut the fuck up and accept what I say you are until I decide to upgrade you, PUSSY!!

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by normalnoises

I laugh, for you are a pussy. Now shut the fuck up and accept what I say you are until I decide to upgrade you, PUSSY!!

Hey cunt.. if my nuts are on your chin where is my dick??

[igloo]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Hey cunt.. if my nuts are on your chin where is my dick??

cintron and mr mahs...I know abnornalnoises is an easy target, but just ignore the misfit....not worth your time...he is insignificant, so just ignore it...

[cintron]

he's amusing. kind of like the trolling n00bs you'd see on honda messageboards.

there should be an Anti-Troll policy on this board.