Red Cross Denied Access to POW's

[sassa]

humane treatment, eh? their bullshit comes out slowly, but surely........and they are allowed to do it.

Red Cross denied access to PoWs Up to 3,000 Iraqis - some of them civilians - believed to be gagged, bound, hooded and beaten at US camps close to Baghdad airport

Ed Vulliamy in Baghdad

Sunday May 25, 2003

The Observer

The United States is illegally holding thousands of Iraqi prisoners of war and other captives without access to human rights officials at compounds close to Baghdad airport, The Observer has learnt.

There have also been reports of a mutiny last week by prisoners at an airport compound, in protest against conditions. The uprising was 'dealt with' by the Americans, according to a US military source.

The International Committee of the Red Cross so far has been denied access to what the organisation believes could be as many as 3,000 prisoners held in searing heat. All other requests to inspect conditions under which prisoners are being held have been met with silence or been turned down.

There is circumstantial evidence that prisoners are being gagged and hooded, in the manner of the Afghans and other captives held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba - treatment in itself questionable under international law.

Unlike the Afghans in Cuba, there is no doubt about the status of these captives, whether PoWs or civilians arrested for looting or other crimes under military occupation: all have the right, under the laws of war, to be visited and documented by the International Red Cross. 'There is no argument about the situation with regard to the Iraqi armed forces and even the Fedayeen Saddam,' said the ICRC's spokeswoman in Baghdad, Nada Doumani.

'They are prisoners of war because they have been captured during a clear conflict between two states. If they served in the armed forces or in a militia with distinctive clothing which came under the chain of command of one of the warring states, they are protected under article 143 of the Geneva Convention.'

The ICRC has gained access to prisoners held in camps at Umm Qasr in the south. But with regard to the larger numbers reportedly held in Baghdad, said Doumani, 'we are still waiting for the green light, more than a month after the end of the conflict. This is in breach of the third Geneva Convention.' She said the laws of war should give the ICRC access 'as quickly as possible'.

The airport camps are also said to contain many hundreds of civilians detained for looting, who, Doumani said, 'do not fit into the category of prisoners of war, according to the Americans'.

Civilians held, she said, have similar rights because they have been detained by an occupying power, which the ICRC insists the Americans to be, even if they do not use those words of themselves.

'Civilian prisoners under a military occupation have the right to be visited and documented,' she said, 'and for their next-of-kin to be informed. Hundreds of families are looking around Baghdad for members of their families who have gone missing and are believed to have been arrested. They are being taken somewhere, but no one knows where.'

A US military source said a mutiny occurred at the beginning of last week at one compound at the airport zone - for the most part a sealed-off area and the site of some of the heaviest civilian casualties as the Americans surged into the Iraqi capital.

The rebellion was 'dealt with' by the US authorities, said the source, with no confirmation or denial of deaths.

Witnesses to the camps are few, since no Iraqi prisoners taken to them have been released. But a cameraman for the France 3 television channel, arrested at the Palestine Hotel, did manage a glimpse. Leo Nicolian has documentation signed by a Lieutenant Brad Fisher saying he was wrongly arrested (and beaten, with a black eye to prove it) for the alleged theft of a bag from an American reporter.

He was held at the tennis court compound along with, he said, about 50 other prisoners, and told he was detained 'for investiga tion'. On his way out, Nicolian said he passed a bigger encampment in which he saw 'hundreds of men' hooded, with their arms tied behind their backs.

A worker for a non-governmental aid organisation, who asked not to be named, told The Observer that he saw men in a similar state aboard a truck, apparently in transit from one place to another. The aid worker said he managed to video the scene.

Doumani said there was no specific wording in the Geneva Convention on the American practice of hooding and gagging, but that the law did specify that prisoners be treated humanely. 'We have to assess what is humane,' she said.

[mr mahs]

Your shitten me right?? So what if these guys get roughed up a little bit.. It's a fraction of what was done to our boys.. did anyone forget the execution style killings and that rat standing over them smiling?? Oh, and the detaining of looters it's ok to point fingers for not doing enough, but when we start detaining people for looting we are acting unjust?

What do you want us to do hand out OREO cookies??

JESUS..What the fuck is wrong with people?

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Your shitten me right?? So what if these guys get roughed up a little bit.. It's a fraction of what was done to our boys.. did anyone forget the execution style killings and that rat standing over them smiling?? Oh, and the detaining of looters it's ok to point fingers for not doing enough, but when we start detaining people for looting we are acting unjust?

What do you want us to do hand out OREO cookies??

JESUS..What the fuck is wrong with people?

[sassa]

how is one supposed to comment about what you just wrote.........

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sassa

how is one supposed to comment about what you just wrote......... [/QU

Truth hurts:blown:

[kramadas]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Your shitten me right?? So what if these guys get roughed up a little bit.. It's a fraction of what was done to our boys.. did anyone forget the execution style killings and that rat standing over them smiling?? Oh, and the detaining of looters it's ok to point fingers for not doing enough, but when we start detaining people for looting we are acting unjust?

What do you want us to do hand out OREO cookies??

JESUS..What the fuck is wrong with people?

So basically the US has lowered itself to the standards of the IRaqis...whom, if I'm right, you called cowards, bastards, etc for treating US POW's that way. So, you're saying the US is allowed to break the Geneva convention? Which means, just like the Iraqis mistreating US POW's, the US can also be prosecuted under internatinal law? But wait a second, didn't Bush retract from the International court, basically making US soldiers immune to international prosecution?

BTW, isn't the war over? Aren't POW's supposed to be released after a war is over?

Your support of this issue is appalling.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by raver_mania

So basically the US has lowered itself to the standards of the IRaqis...whom, if I'm right, you called cowards, bastards, etc for treating US POW's that way. So, you're saying the US is allowed to break the Geneva convention? Which means, just like the Iraqis mistreating US POW's, the US can also be prosecuted under internatinal law? But wait a second, didn't Bush retract from the International court, basically making US soldiers immune to international prosecution?

BTW, isn't the war over? Aren't POW's supposed to be released after a war is over?

Your support of this issue is appalling.

Raver,

Read my post it says that they are experiencing a FRACTION of what has been done to our guys that were captured.. Gutanomo bay is a fucking country club compared to some of these animals normal habitats, what other country would give it's prisoners 3 meals a day and NOT beat it's prisoners to an inch of there lives??

Look things are hectic over their and as soon as they are properly screened the people who are cleared will be allowed to leave. Did you guys forget we just fought a war.. We will interrogate all the prisoners for information not to do so will be a mistake on our part because human intel is the best intel..

Americans are hated all over the world what kind of fair trial would a marine receive in a international court seriously... Get this 1 world 1 nation crap out of your head dude... nobody looks after americans like americans and I am glad we pulled away from the international court, next maybe we will smarten up and dump the U.N!

1 can only hope....

[sassa]

just face it, mahs, your argument is weak and doesn't support the issue at hand. give it up! you are wrong.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sassa

just face it, mahs, your argument is weak and doesn't support the issue at hand. give it up! you are wrong.

How so? because I think logically and practice common sense?

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

How so? because I think logically and practice common sense?

logically? common sense?

you're ignoring a lot of facts.

but this is gonna get into drama, i know you're probably going to respond with a bitchy post, so let's end this here.

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by mr mahs

How so? because I think logically and practice common sense?

Bounding and beating POWs, refusing them treatment by the Red Cross... How logical is that??

If you were a POW and were bound, beaten, and refused medical treatment by the Red Cross by the government who captured you how would you feel?

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

( Taking of hostages;

© Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Article 13

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sassa

logically? common sense?

you're ignoring a lot of facts.

but this is gonna get into drama, i know you're probably going to respond with a bitchy post, so let's end this here.

I rarely insult you..

You are selectively beleiving alot of speculation. Read the first paragraph

Red Cross denied access to PoWs Up to 3,000 Iraqis - some of them civilians - believed to be gagged, bound, hooded and beaten at US camps close to Baghdad airport

The key word is beleived as in not confirmed. It amazes me that you choose to beleive something that portrays the United States in a bad light but beleive nothing that comes out of the white house. I don't rememer anyone here except select right wingers condemn the acts of the Iraqis towards our guys which is 20x worse . Anyone forget the pilot in 91 that went down and was never retreived? but I bet you beleive the Iraqi's that he died..

[kramadas]

Originally posted by mr mahs

I rarely insult you..

You are beleiving alot of speculation. Read the first paragraph

Red Cross denied access to PoWs Up to 3,000 Iraqis - some of them civilians - believed to be gagged, bound, hooded and beaten at US camps close to Baghdad airport

The key word is beleived as in not confirmed. It amazes me that you choose to beleive something that portrays the United States in a bad light but beleive nothing that comes out of the white house. I don't rememer anyone except select right wingers condemn the acts of the Iraqis towards our prisoners which is 20x worse then what some of our guys were getting or still are getting. Anyone forget the pilot in 91 that went down and was never retreived? but I bet you beleive the Iraqi's that he died..

Remember those two Afghans that "accidentally" died in US custody - forgot if it was in Afghan itself or on board one of the ships.

Unfortunately, the Iraqis and Afghans cannot keep track of all their men in US custody like the US can. I wonder how many unclaimed bodies were dumped. C'mon do you really believe that the army would not be using force to achieve their ends?

What the Iraqis did to the US soldiers was wrong too - I never denied that.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by raver_mania

What the Iraqis did to the US soldiers was wrong too - I never denied that.

But where is the outcry from amnesty international? It just angers me that the Geneva convention- violator finger, is always pointed our way...that's all.

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

I rarely insult you..

You are selectively beleiving alot of speculation. Read the first paragraph

Red Cross denied access to PoWs Up to 3,000 Iraqis - some of them civilians - believed to be gagged, bound, hooded and beaten at US camps close to Baghdad airport

The key word is beleived as in not confirmed. It amazes me that you choose to beleive something that portrays the United States in a bad light but beleive nothing that comes out of the white house. I don't rememer anyone here except select right wingers condemn the acts of the Iraqis towards our guys which is 20x worse . Anyone forget the pilot in 91 that went down and was never retreived? but I bet you beleive the Iraqi's that he died..

how can ANYONE take what the white house says for face value?? are you serious??

i'd believe it because i have some former schoolmates out there working for the red cross and other peacekeeping groups. there's alot more to the situation that you'd imagine. this is going to turn into a mudslinging contest now, God forbid i say anything against america.

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by mr mahs

But where is the outcry from amnesty international? It just angers me that the Geneva convention- violator finger, is always pointed our way...that's all.

One Amnesty International Member coming up.

RIGHT HERE!!

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/index-eng