igloo Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 So what Bush's perennial war detractors are necessarily saying is that he made the great sacrifice (in his mind) and went to all the trouble of disposing of the WMDs, yet refused to benefit from it? WMDs: Don't Change the Ground RulesDavid LimbaughJune 4, 2003 Remember: The United States did not have the burden of proving Saddam Hussein was still manufacturing and stockpiling weapons of mass destruction to justify attacking Iraq. There is no reason the ground rules should suddenly change now that the war is over.We don't have the burden of finding WMDs now -- not because hindsight vindicates our action as a humane liberation of the Iraqi people, which it was -- but because we never had the burden in the first place.Don't you recall U.N. Resolution 1441? It was not a unilateral edict of the United States but a unanimous corporate statement of the 15-member Security Council. It was passed Nov. 8, 2002, not at some distant point in the past. What did that multilateral resolution provide?It affirmed the world's absolute certainty that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction. It declared that Iraq had repeatedly breached its obligations under U.N. Resolution 687 of 1991 by failing to disclose fully and accurately its WMD and long-range missile programs. It stated that Iraq had repeatedly obstructed U.N. inspections and finally terminated them altogether.It gave Iraq a final chance to comply with its treaty obligation to disarm, but warned that Iraq would be considered in further material breach and face serious consequences if it made false statements or omissions in its required declaration as to disarmament.What did all that mean in English? Simply that Iraq would either show the good guys where they were hiding the weapons or produce a comprehensive and credible paper trail proving it had disposed of them.But on Dec. 8, Saddam produced a bogus 12,000-page document full of lies and disinformation. Right then and there Saddam sealed his own fate. For though some on the Security Council had lost their resolve -- or were never sincere in the first place -- George Bush was dead serious that he wasn't going to permit any further criminality from this terrorist-enabling tyrant.While we permitted the post-Clinton era doves to characterize our military enforcement of Resolution 1441 as an act of preemption, technically, it was not -- not if we care anything about the words we put on paper following a war. The gist of it is that Saddam Hussein was on probation following Gulf War I. For 12 years he repeatedly violated his conditions of probation with virtual impunity. Sure, he absorbed a few cruise missile volleys, but their limited scope did more to strengthen his defiance than deter it. He knew Clinton wasn't serious. He surely thought after 12 years of this fecklessness that George W. Bush wasn't going to be either.Though the U.N. ultimately abdicated its duties as Saddam's probation officer, the United States and the coalition did not. We took it upon ourselves to revoke his probation. Not because we had definitive proof that he still had WMDs -- though we sincerely believed and still believe he did (we've already found the two mobile weapons labs) -- but because he failed to satisfy his conditions of probation showing us the banned goods or proof he had disposed of them.He had more than a dozen chances. And sane people are supposed to believe he didn't have the weapons when all he would have had to do to remain in power and riches was to walk us through the process whereby he destroyed them?The only way Saddam didn't still have the weapons, which we know he earlier had and used to slaughter his own people, is if he destroyed them. So what Bush's perennial war detractors are necessarily saying is that he made the great sacrifice (in his mind) and went to all the trouble of disposing of the WMDs, yet refused to benefit from it? That would be like a convicted bank robber, after being promised no jail time if he returned the stolen money, burning the cash and losing both the loot and his liberty. Right -- it's unthinkable.I don't expect Bush's detractors -- whose goal is to discredit him -- to be logical or intellectually honest. But I do expect others to analyze this clearly. We are not required to find these weapons. We know Saddam had them, or he wouldn't have repeatedly obstructed the inspectors, filed a flagrantly false declaration or permitted himself to be ousted from power. He gambled against the wrong guy. And that guy, President Bush, did the right thing, and the Iraqi people are better off, and America is a safer place because of it.So what Bush's perennial war detractors are necessarily saying is that he made the great sacrifice (in his mind) and went to all the trouble of disposing of the WMDs, yet refused to benefit from it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted June 5 Author Report Share Posted June 5 Why does our resident lefties ignore viewpoints like this....is it because it exposes their lack of common sense, good judgement, and anti Bush opportunism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted June 5 Report Share Posted June 5 Originally posted by igloo Why does our resident lefties ignore viewpoints like this....is it because it exposes their lack of common sense, good judgement, and anti Bush opportunism? I caught Hannity debating this story with some rat that called the show yesterday. This guy said that " A couple of scrubbed down bio lab trailers wasn't eveidence enough that they had a WMD program" ???? Huh, are you serious? why would you have them then? I can't fathom how people give the benefit of a doubt to a dictator but not our own govt, it sickens me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted June 5 Author Report Share Posted June 5 Originally posted by mr mahs I caught Hannity debating this story with some rat that called the show yesterday. This guy said that " A couple of scrubbed down bio lab trailers wasn't eveidence enough that they had a WMD program" ???? Huh, are you serious? why would you have them then? I can't fathom how people give the benefit of a doubt to a dictator but not our own govt, it sickens me. Classic leftist hypocrisy baked in anti-Bush sentiment.....that is why I keep pushing my other posts....Clinton and his own gang claimed WMD, launched cruise missle attacks, but the lost left said nothing.....Now the left is worried about Iraqi POW treatment.....unreal....They are so lost.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted June 5 Report Share Posted June 5 here's a great article from The Mirror (in the UK)87 WMD SITES ARE CLEARED Jun 4 2003Exclusive by Gary Jones And Tom Newton DunnTROOPS hunting for Saddam's weapons of mass destruction have searched 87 "prime" sites in Iraq - and have found nothing.Nineteen were "highest-priority" zones identified by US Central Command, military sources revealed yesterday.But instead of chemical or biological weapons, searchers uncovered a training facility for Iraq's Olympic swimming and diving teams, a drinks distillery and a factory making car licence plates.Last night more pressure was piled on Tony Blair when the Commons Foreign Affairs Committee announced an inquiry into the WMD controversy. The Prime Minister faces being grilled in public by MPs about whether he misled Parliament over Saddam Hussein's weapons.Mr Blair, who today announced another inquiry by MPs on the Intelligence and Security Committee also faced a storm of fury at Prime Minister's Question Time.The PM is sending in 100 military specialists will now join a new American-led hunt for weapons evidence, after the apparent failure of the current search. The 87 sites given the all-clear were targeted by the coalition, acting on specific intelligence reports. A military source said: "They found precisely nothing." The searchers were from the 200-strong, mainly US 75th Exploitation Group - made up of military personnel, the CIA, the Defence Intelligence Agency, the FBI, and a British contingent.One suspected underground chemical weapons stash at the Malab Ashab Chemical Co. was opened up, said sources, and a swimming pool exposed.SEARCH: Inspector in Iraq looks for weaponsThe Al Hayat site, ranked 26th out of 87 and described as a possible Saddam-run Special Security Organisation facility, turned out to house a collection of vacuum cleaners.Another target was the Al Salk chemical site. A raiding party discovered it was a family-owned distillery, making a liqueur.Worse was to follow, according to military sources. A feared weapons store was, in fact, a US artillery HQ.Even an intelligence tip on a secret hoard of documents backfired. Files reported removed from a chemical lab were simply a thesis by a graduate student frightened his work might be destroyed.Originally a list of more than 900 suspect sites had been drawn up, where WMDs or evidence of such programmes might be found. US Central chiefs listed 19 major targets.A second list of 68 top "non-WMD sites" - where incriminating documents were expected to be recovered and which gave support to terrorists - was also drawn up, taking the total to 87.RAF wing commander Sebastian Kendall had the task of planning the hunt from the US and British land forces' HQ in Kuwait.He said he had focused on priority sites, where analysts had assessed there was a "high probability" of finding a link to WMD.Wing Cdr Kendall later admitted on April 20: "We started off with a list. It is true that the environment is changing based on reality."The stark failures at the top of the list have led to the Exploitation Group's work being scaled back, with fewer than 300 of the 900 targets inspected.Now a fresh investigation will be launched by the 1,400-strong Iraqi Survey Group, based in Baghdad and reporting directly to Washington.It is expected to focus on interrogation of Iraqi scientists. One former UN inspector, asked if he would like to help, said: "There's not a lot left to search. We've been told we wouldn't be rummaging around buildings, and it's likely to be a paper chase."Interviewing Iraqi scientists is perceived the key to opening up the secrets, if there are any, of Saddam's weapons." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted June 5 Report Share Posted June 5 Originally posted by bigpoppanils here's a great article from The Mirror (in the UK)The Al Hayat site, ranked 26th out of 87 and described as a possible Saddam-run Special Security Organisation facility, turned out to house a collection of vacuum cleaners. I'm sure that they now claim that Saddam cleaned up all the chemican and bio weapons with those vacuum cleaners!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted June 6 Author Report Share Posted June 6 hmmmmmm....did you really expect WMD to turn up in sites that US intelligence suspected.?????In the months and months leading up the war when the UN was debating on how to DISARM Iraq (I repeat DISARM, including passing a resolution to disarm), it is not conceivable that Iraq, known for their mastery of concealment, would assume that every site was compromised, and take appropriate measures???This whole debate is ridiculous...like I have said, no one, not a sole, questioned Clinton when he took action against Iraq because of WMD, and then threatened invasion over WMD...No one questioned Gore during the election run when he said Iraq was a grave threat because of WMD...No one questioned European and Arab intelligence services when they concluded Iraq had WMD...No one questioned the UN inspection team when they were kicked out of Iraq in 1998 about the proof they provided about Iraq's WMD....No one can answer the question why the "great survivor" Saddam would invite his own demise by not cooperating with the last UN team...No one can answer the question where the confirmed stockpiles of WMD are..since when the UN team left in 1998, they confirmed banned weapons still in existence.......Did Saddam Hussein wake up one day and say " Let's destroy our remaining WMD because I am a good guy, but offer no proof of their destruction ...also, I would like to devote my time to what I enjoy best---murder, torture, rape, kidnapping and other unthinkable acts of thuggery--and why not, the world could care less about what I am doing to Iraqi people, especially the hypocritical American left"Like I have stated before, I suggest that those of you who are shamefully and actively rooting against the US to fail, and take joy in the fact that WMD have not been found so "one" of your endless, innaccurate anti-war statements have life, do some soul searching, and also inject yourselves with a little common sense....This WMD debate is repulsive political opportunism and blatant anti-Bush sentiment......If you want to call for a congressional inquiry into the WMD evidence ---so be it...I totally agree ......but to take the track that there was a massive conspiracy (which would have to include the Clinton administration, UN, and govt officials from Eurupean and ME countries) is ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted June 6 Report Share Posted June 6 Good stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Originally posted by igloo No one questioned Gore during the election run when he said Iraq was a grave threat because of WMD...No one questioned European and Arab intelligence services when they concluded Iraq had WMD...No one questioned the UN inspection team when they were kicked out of Iraq in 1998 about the proof they provided about Iraq's WMD....No one can answer the question why the "great survivor" Saddam would invite his own demise by not cooperating with the last UN team...Did you question them?No one can answer the question where the confirmed stockpiles of WMD are..since when the UN team left in 1998, they confirmed banned weapons still in existence.......Did Saddam Hussein wake up one day and say " Let's destroy our remaining WMD because I am a good guy, but offer no proof of their destruction ...also, I would like to devote my time to what I enjoy best---murder, torture, rape, kidnapping and other unthinkable acts of thuggery--and why not, the world could care less about what I am doing to Iraqi people, especially the hypocritical American left" Could you answer the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted June 8 Report Share Posted June 8 ^^Thought so. IDIOT!!!We know who the REAL chicken little is now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted June 8 Report Share Posted June 8 Originally posted by igloo If you want to call for a congressional inquiry into the WMD evidence ---so be it...I totally agree i agree. there is an awful lot of conflicting evidence. too much in fact. but i dont think that congress will actually start an inquiry until the results of Parliment's investigation into this matter becomes clear.i would also like to know, that is if it is proven that Iraq actually had WMD, which nations and/or companies aided them in their research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted June 9 Author Report Share Posted June 9 Originally posted by bigpoppanils ii would also like to know, that is if it is proven that Iraq actually had WMD, which nations and/or companies aided them in their research. It has already been proven Iraq has WMD.....the US found them after the Gulf War, the UN confirmed them from 1991-until they were kicked out in 1998 (leaving behind stockpiles), and the Kurds and Iranians felt their destruction.....The question is not if he had them, but where are they....I welcome a congressional inquiry, because it will be short and conclusive, and put the counterproductive political opportunism behind us...Remember both Dems and Rep. sit on the intelligence and foreign relations commitees, and both were confident in the intelligence, and still are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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