I Love John Ashcroft!

[mr mahs]

Ashcroft Takes Questions on Patriot Act

Thursday, June 05, 2003

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department's (search) new anti-terrorism powers have made it possible to track, detain and in some cases, obtain sealed agreements from terror suspects that have resulted in the prevention of more terrorist attacks in the United States, Attorney General John Ashcroft (search) said Thursday.

The USA Patriot Act (search) has made it possible to increase surveillance powers, uncover the status of Al Qaeda in the United States and learn other valuable information about terror tactics and operations here and abroad, Ashcroft told the House Judiciary Committee.

"Our ability to prevent another catastrophic attack on American soil would be more difficult if not impossible without the Patriot Act," Ashcroft said, citing examples of the information obtained from individuals questioned under the new powers.

"These individuals have provided critical intelligence about Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, about their safehouses and training camps, their recruitment ... One individual has given us intelligence on weapons stored here in the United States. Another cooperator has identified locations in the United States being scouted or cased for potential attacks by Al Qaeda," he said.

Ashcroft added the United States and other cooperative nations have deprived Al Qaeda of training facilities in Afghanistan, closed off some sources of financing and arrested key operatives.

Despite the successes, Ashcroft said Al Qaeda remains a threat.

"Let me be clear: Al Qaeda is diminished but not destroyed. Defeat after defeat has made the terrorists desperate to strike again," he said.

The USA Patriot Act, passed by Congress in the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, grants the government broad powers to use wiretaps, electronic and computer eavesdropping and searches, and the authority to access a wide range of financial and other information in its investigations.

Critics of the act have claimed since its inception that it denies U.S. residents civil liberties. House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., has said he is sensitive to those concerns, and complained earlier this year that his panel hasn't been given enough information from the Justice Department to determine whether those concerns have validity.

"To my mind, the purpose of the Patriot Act is to secure our liberties and not undermine them," he said.

Added Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif.: "Some of us find that the collateral damage is greater than it needs to be in the conduct of this war."

Critics of the act claim to be vindicated by a Department of Justice inspector general report released Monday that said some of the 762 immigrants detained in the 11 months following Sept. 11 were denied quick access to notice of their charges -- primarily visa violations -- and faced harsh living conditions beyond the 90-day time period in which they can be held.

Ashcroft responded that the detentions were all lawful and carried out in an atmosphere of deep national anxiety. Of the cases, 505 individuals have been deported, one -- Zacarias Moussaoui -- is facing terror-related charges. Ashcroft said another 15 people have been offered criminal plea agreements, many under seal.

He added that the Justice Department will investigate remaining allegations of abuse of the detainees, although 14 of 18 cases referred so far already have been cleared without any charges being filed.

"We do not stand for abuse," Ashcroft said.

Ashcroft said he is not seeking additional powers to the Patriot Act, but is looking for some fixes to the law's weaknesses, which could be used to cause additional harm.

He also is seeking support for renewing the act after it sunsets in April 2005.

"The law has several weaknesses which terrorists could exploit, undermining our defenses," Ashcroft said, pointing to indefinite detention periods for terror suspects and longer prison terms for those who are convicted of committing terrorists acts.

"In criminal cases where public safety is a concern such as drug dealing, organized crime and gun crimes, defendants in federal crimes are presumptively denied pretrial release," Ashcroft said. "It seems as though the crime of terrorism should have the same presumption."

Ashcroft said another fix would be to charge as "material supporters" anyone caught providing aid or working with terrorist groups.

Sensenbrenner said his "support for this legislation is neither perpetual or unconditional."

[normalnoises]

How does a nice visit by the Secret Service accompanied by an FBI agent and local police dectectives sound to you? How about them entering my house without a warrant and asking me questions about my activities online concerning anti-war postings and symbolic articles of the such? How about them asking me questions if I belong to any terrorist organization and if I have any contacts? How about them asking questions about where my friends live? How about the same Secret Service agent, the FBI agent and local detectives looking at my computer without a warrant sound to you? How about my picture being taken sound to you? How about them telling me they may be back after telling me they are continuing the investigation?

That happened to me.

Luckly I did not get arrested but they did invade my privacy and my right not be self-incriminated and that is a civil rights violation. Not only that it also infringed on my first amendment rights. Also a civil rights violation.

All this because of my political views.

All this because of the Patriot Act.

This can also happen to you.

PS... How about all those flag waving jingoistic idiots claiming we have all those freedoms this country suppoedly gives us then suddenly tells to shut up and leave the country the minute we criticize the government because of their wrongdoings.

I admire how they use this rhetoric when they have no argument to support their words and nothing to back it up knowing they are proven wrong.

I admire how they contridict themselves when they tell us to shut and get out of the country especially when they claim we have all those freedoms, including free speech as I mentioned above.

[igloo]

Ashcroft is doing an excellent job!!!

The telltale sign of his effeciency is that the clueless, hypocritical left are ringing the "civil liberties" alarm instead of feeling the hate and murder of additional terrorist attacks...

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by igloo

Ashcroft is doing an excellent job!!!

The telltale sign of his effeciency is that the clueless, hypocritical left are ringing the "civil liberties" alarm instead of feeling the hate and murder of additional terrorist attacks...

You beleive Normals encounter with the authorities? I sware the uproar from the hypocrits on the left about the Patriot act is just insane. The left cry civil liberty violtations but would be the first to critcize if God forbid another attack occured. I just can't see how thay argue the facts that the attacks were executed because of our lenient immigration and surveillance laws and the patriot act is a way of plugging the huge holes we had in the system. The people who object the Act ironically have no other solutions, why am I not surprised.

[normalnoises]

Your orwellian attack on the Constitution and on the American people by way of YOUR PATRIOT ACT, RACIST ASSHOLES!!

Any and all persons in any organization (defined as two or more persons working together) can be arrested, imprisoned, and their assets seized if they contribute money or volunteer action to an organization that government agents accuse (without judicial review) of aiding or abetting a terrorist, a terrorist organization, or a terrorist act. (I, IV, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

It created a new crime of "domestic terrorism" so broadly defined that your participation in a union or political demonstration, support of Greenpeace actions, "hugging a tree," marching in an anti-war or anti-abortion demonstration can result in arrest if any one person involved breaks any law. (I, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

"Domestic terrorism" is defined, in part, as acts that are dangerous to human life, violate any criminal law, and "appear to be intended" to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." (I)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

A secret court - not subject to judicial review - is given the authority to authorize wiretaps and secret searches of homes or offices in criminal cases (even without connection to terrorism). It will permit roving wiretaps of any phone, computer, or cell phone that a suspect might possibly use. It can result in an agent reading your e-mail before you do: it will allow agents to listen to conversations that have nothing to do with a suspect or any crime. Government agents and police also have this authority by merely asserting that the information sought is "relevant" to a foreign intelligence investigation. (I, IV, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act makes it a crime for an individual to fail to notify the FBI or other police authorities if s/he has or had "reasonable grounds to believe" that someone is about to commit a terrorist act. The provision is so vague that anyone, no matter how innocent, with any connection to anyone suspected of being a terrorist can be prosecuted. Under that standard, we are guilty until we can prove ourselves innocent - quite the opposite of "hallowed" judicial standards in criminal cases. As Michael Ratner of Human Rights Now says: "We will all need to become spies to protect ourselves" from arrest. (V)

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

You can be detained, without judicial review, as a "material witness" in a case involving a foreign terrorist on the allegation of a law enforcement officer that you witnessed the commission of a crime or have knowledge of a crime committed by a third party. If "national security" is involved in the government's case, you have no right to habeas corpus or your "day in court." (V & VI)

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act authorizes "sneak-and-peek" searches (based on a judicial warrant that a judge has no authority to refuse if the government asserts "national security"!) of ANY home, office, computer or bank, medical, business, or other records belonging to any person, corporation or organization. If they sneak in when you are not there, they may copy, photograph, or take any record or thing they wish and not even leave you a note saying they were there. And use the material against you in court. Agents or police may cause someone's arrest and seizure of their property by merely photographing documents out of context: there is no oversight in the collection of alleged "evidence." (IV & V)

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The Act authorizes (and encourages) the use of secret, paid informers to accuse you of a crime or participation in a terrorist plot. If the material seized during a "Patriot Act office break-in" results in your arrest and the seizure of your property, the informer is rewarded with a percentage of the seized assets. Similar authorization in legislation on the "war on drugs" has enabled individuals and police departments around the country to become rich on seized assets - just as Hitler's henchmen enriched themselves under similar legislation in Nazi Germany. If "national security" is claimed in the case, you will probably never encounter your accuser or know the full range of charges against you. Your chances of regaining any of your property - IF you are found innocent- are next to nil. (IV, V, & VI )

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

All businesses are required to report to the government any and all purchases made, singly or in related transactions, in amounts of $10,000 or more in cash. In addition to the purchase of rifles, bombs, airplanes, and tanks, this also covers the purchase of furniture, cars, trailers, cottages, jewelry - whatever might cost, for one item or a roomful of furniture -$10,000 or more and paid in cash.

The Act, in many instances, restricts judicial review of government agency actions and strips U.S. courts of the authority to correct improper conduct by government agents and enforce our constitutional rights. (I, IV, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act creates a new crime of "terrorist association," which merges common criminal activities with support of terrorism. The act states that criminals and terrorists use the same world networks and organizations to "market" illegal drugs, and both have interests in criminal activities. This opens the door for police to use secret "evidence" against innocent persons charged with non- terrorist crimes. A street seller of marijuana or harder drugs could be tried under terrorist laws and terms. The act could reach to all buyers of drugs (people in "the market") and other illegal wares, catching them up in anti-terrorist court proceedings under those very restricted civil rights. (Although there are more minority persons in prison on drug charges, there are more middle- and upper-class white users of illegal drugs.) Note well the current media ads issued by the Office of National Drug Control Policy, which state: "Drug money helps support terror. Buy drugs and you could be supporting it too." (IV, V, & VI)

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Under the Act, in order to cause an arrest and/or property confiscation, the government needs only to allege an individual or organization's activities "relate" to a "criminal market" that terrorists use or depend on for their support. Government authorities may seize foreign bank accounts (where governments cooperate), needing only to claim that a financial transaction, account proceeds, or property are "related" to criminal activity (not limited to "terrorist activity"). The U.S. or cooperating foreign government authority is not required to prove what part of proceeds seized from an account are "related" to criminal activity; they may confiscate and never inform the owner(s) of the reason for confiscation or the evidence against their account. (IV, V, & VI)

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act allows government agencies to prosecute U.S. citizens for "networking with," working "in association with," or "having an influence on" a "terrorist association or enterprise" and to try the person or organization so charged under the terrorist trial rules, using secret evidence which cannot be introduced in a U.S. civilian court. Can you be sure that neither you nor any organization that you are or have been associated with has never had any contact with an organization that has terrorist ties - or might, at some date in the future, be accused of participating in a terrorist act? (V & VI)

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Using these broad provisions granted by the USA-PATRIOT Act, corrupt police and government agents can "frame" citizens with little or no real evidence. Victims may not even learn of the evidence against them or their property when either one is seized. If a person protests seizure of property or records, under these rules, without full judicial review, it is easy for corrupt officers to get the protester out of the way by claiming terrorist connections and sending the protester to prison. All these things have been done under the similar drug laws. USA-PATRIOT Act, in addition to shredding our rights under the Bill of Rights, provides irresistible temptations to corrupt and corruptible officers.

The above provisions have already had a chilling effect on U.S. citizens' participation in the activities of nonprofit and other charitable and service organizations - particularly those which express dissent against government policies and actions. Both donations and volunteer actions have been affected by the passage of the USA-PATRIOT Act. They have been further chilled by the reintroduction of COINTELPRO-type activities of the FBI and CIA. The Act authorizes and provides funds for agency infiltration into organizations. Many organizations in the United States are on the alert for agents provocateur who, as in the 1960s and 1970s, infiltrated minority organizations and stimulated violent actions that provided reason for destructive, lethal state and federal police actions against organizations protesting the status quo. (I)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

"Giving up our civil liberties has made us feel even less safe from our own government's intrusion in our lives. The two seem to be in conflict. How can we be safer from outside threats while making ourselves more exposed to our own government's threat to our liberty?" - Representative Ron Paul, a Texas Republican January 24, 2002

Enjoy it Idiots. Because YOU, BUSH AND ASSCROTCH HAVE NO RESPECT OR ANY REGARD ON CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES AND NO REGARD AND NO RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTIONAL BILL OF RIGHTS!!

Enjoy your life living in NAZI AMERIKA! You can have it, I don't want it.

Congratulations. You have been deignorized.

God Bless Asscrotch.

Now go suck his dick, sheep.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by normalnoises

Your orwellian attack on the Constitution and on the American people by way of YOUR PATRIOT ACT, RACIST ASSHOLES!!

Any and all persons in any organization (defined as two or more persons working together) can be arrested, imprisoned, and their assets seized if they contribute money or volunteer action to an organization that government agents accuse (without judicial review) of aiding or abetting a terrorist, a terrorist organization, or a terrorist act. (I, IV, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

It created a new crime of "domestic terrorism" so broadly defined that your participation in a union or political demonstration, support of Greenpeace actions, "hugging a tree," marching in an anti-war or anti-abortion demonstration can result in arrest if any one person involved breaks any law. (I, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

"Domestic terrorism" is defined, in part, as acts that are dangerous to human life, violate any criminal law, and "appear to be intended" to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." (I)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

A secret court - not subject to judicial review - is given the authority to authorize wiretaps and secret searches of homes or offices in criminal cases (even without connection to terrorism). It will permit roving wiretaps of any phone, computer, or cell phone that a suspect might possibly use. It can result in an agent reading your e-mail before you do: it will allow agents to listen to conversations that have nothing to do with a suspect or any crime. Government agents and police also have this authority by merely asserting that the information sought is "relevant" to a foreign intelligence investigation. (I, IV, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act makes it a crime for an individual to fail to notify the FBI or other police authorities if s/he has or had "reasonable grounds to believe" that someone is about to commit a terrorist act. The provision is so vague that anyone, no matter how innocent, with any connection to anyone suspected of being a terrorist can be prosecuted. Under that standard, we are guilty until we can prove ourselves innocent - quite the opposite of "hallowed" judicial standards in criminal cases. As Michael Ratner of Human Rights Now says: "We will all need to become spies to protect ourselves" from arrest. (V)

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

You can be detained, without judicial review, as a "material witness" in a case involving a foreign terrorist on the allegation of a law enforcement officer that you witnessed the commission of a crime or have knowledge of a crime committed by a third party. If "national security" is involved in the government's case, you have no right to habeas corpus or your "day in court." (V & VI)

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act authorizes "sneak-and-peek" searches (based on a judicial warrant that a judge has no authority to refuse if the government asserts "national security"!) of ANY home, office, computer or bank, medical, business, or other records belonging to any person, corporation or organization. If they sneak in when you are not there, they may copy, photograph, or take any record or thing they wish and not even leave you a note saying they were there. And use the material against you in court. Agents or police may cause someone's arrest and seizure of their property by merely photographing documents out of context: there is no oversight in the collection of alleged "evidence." (IV & V)

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The Act authorizes (and encourages) the use of secret, paid informers to accuse you of a crime or participation in a terrorist plot. If the material seized during a "Patriot Act office break-in" results in your arrest and the seizure of your property, the informer is rewarded with a percentage of the seized assets. Similar authorization in legislation on the "war on drugs" has enabled individuals and police departments around the country to become rich on seized assets - just as Hitler's henchmen enriched themselves under similar legislation in Nazi Germany. If "national security" is claimed in the case, you will probably never encounter your accuser or know the full range of charges against you. Your chances of regaining any of your property - IF you are found innocent- are next to nil. (IV, V, & VI )

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

All businesses are required to report to the government any and all purchases made, singly or in related transactions, in amounts of $10,000 or more in cash. In addition to the purchase of rifles, bombs, airplanes, and tanks, this also covers the purchase of furniture, cars, trailers, cottages, jewelry - whatever might cost, for one item or a roomful of furniture -$10,000 or more and paid in cash.

The Act, in many instances, restricts judicial review of government agency actions and strips U.S. courts of the authority to correct improper conduct by government agents and enforce our constitutional rights. (I, IV, V, & VI)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act creates a new crime of "terrorist association," which merges common criminal activities with support of terrorism. The act states that criminals and terrorists use the same world networks and organizations to "market" illegal drugs, and both have interests in criminal activities. This opens the door for police to use secret "evidence" against innocent persons charged with non- terrorist crimes. A street seller of marijuana or harder drugs could be tried under terrorist laws and terms. The act could reach to all buyers of drugs (people in "the market") and other illegal wares, catching them up in anti-terrorist court proceedings under those very restricted civil rights. (Although there are more minority persons in prison on drug charges, there are more middle- and upper-class white users of illegal drugs.) Note well the current media ads issued by the Office of National Drug Control Policy, which state: "Drug money helps support terror. Buy drugs and you could be supporting it too." (IV, V, & VI)

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Under the Act, in order to cause an arrest and/or property confiscation, the government needs only to allege an individual or organization's activities "relate" to a "criminal market" that terrorists use or depend on for their support. Government authorities may seize foreign bank accounts (where governments cooperate), needing only to claim that a financial transaction, account proceeds, or property are "related" to criminal activity (not limited to "terrorist activity"). The U.S. or cooperating foreign government authority is not required to prove what part of proceeds seized from an account are "related" to criminal activity; they may confiscate and never inform the owner(s) of the reason for confiscation or the evidence against their account. (IV, V, & VI)

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and

effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be

violated,

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath

or

affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the

persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Act allows government agencies to prosecute U.S. citizens for "networking with," working "in association with," or "having an influence on" a "terrorist association or enterprise" and to try the person or organization so charged under the terrorist trial rules, using secret evidence which cannot be introduced in a U.S. civilian court. Can you be sure that neither you nor any organization that you are or have been associated with has never had any contact with an organization that has terrorist ties - or might, at some date in the future, be accused of participating in a terrorist act? (V & VI)

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous

crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in

cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual

service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject

for

the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be

compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be

deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor

shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy

and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the

crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously

ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the

accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have

compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the

Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Using these broad provisions granted by the USA-PATRIOT Act, corrupt police and government agents can "frame" citizens with little or no real evidence. Victims may not even learn of the evidence against them or their property when either one is seized. If a person protests seizure of property or records, under these rules, without full judicial review, it is easy for corrupt officers to get the protester out of the way by claiming terrorist connections and sending the protester to prison. All these things have been done under the similar drug laws. USA-PATRIOT Act, in addition to shredding our rights under the Bill of Rights, provides irresistible temptations to corrupt and corruptible officers.

The above provisions have already had a chilling effect on U.S. citizens' participation in the activities of nonprofit and other charitable and service organizations - particularly those which express dissent against government policies and actions. Both donations and volunteer actions have been affected by the passage of the USA-PATRIOT Act. They have been further chilled by the reintroduction of COINTELPRO-type activities of the FBI and CIA. The Act authorizes and provides funds for agency infiltration into organizations. Many organizations in the United States are on the alert for agents provocateur who, as in the 1960s and 1970s, infiltrated minority organizations and stimulated violent actions that provided reason for destructive, lethal state and federal police actions against organizations protesting the status quo. (I)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to

petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

"Giving up our civil liberties has made us feel even less safe from our own government's intrusion in our lives. The two seem to be in conflict. How can we be safer from outside threats while making ourselves more exposed to our own government's threat to our liberty?" - Representative Ron Paul, a Texas Republican January 24, 2002

Enjoy it Idiots. Because YOU, BUSH AND ASSCROTCH HAVE NO RESPECT OR ANY REGARD ON CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES AND NO REGARD AND NO RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTIONAL BILL OF RIGHTS!!

Enjoy your life living in NAZI AMERIKA! You can have it, I don't want it.

Congratulations. You have been deignorized.

God Bless Asscrotch.

Now go suck his dick, sheep.

You are not even worth answering:blown:

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by mr mahs

You are not even worth answering:blown:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. "

-Ben Franklin

Asscrotch is raping you.

[normalnoises]

Now lets see if you can disprove the fact that the Patriot Act goes against the Bill of Rights. Lets see if you can disprove the fact that Asscrotch lied like the baboon he is. By your last posting it is obvious you can't. I win, you lose.

BABY KILLER

ASHCROFT IS RAPING YOU!!!

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

You are not even worth answering:blown:

why is that, because you have absolutely nothing to counterargue him with? i would seriously like to know where you were educated.

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

why is that, because you have absolutely nothing to counterargue him with? i would seriously like to know where you were educated.

And have you stooped to new lows by justifying the repulsive hate that spews from abnormalnoises?.....pathetic

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sassa

why is that, because you have absolutely nothing to counterargue him with? i would seriously like to know where you were educated.

I am cuurently attending St John's University and working Full time at Prudential. Where was I educated? what kind of question is that? I should be asking you if you were dropped on your head as a kid because that would expalin ALOT.

Read his posts nothing but rants that lack a single point or a counter rebuttal other then insults.

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

I am cuurently attending St John's University and working Full time at Prudential. Where was I educated? what kind of question is that? I should be asking you if you were dropped on your head as a kid because that would expalin ALOT.

Read his posts nothing but rants that lack a single point or a counter rebuttal other then insults.

you could have just answered the question POLITELY and not say anything else. no need to include a pathetic little bitchy comeback what is this, third grade? grow the fuck up.

i asked you that because a person's educational background says a lot about how they express their views and what they deem worthy. so chill out.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sassa

you could have just answered the question POLITELY and not say anything else. no need to include a pathetic little bitchy comeback what is this, third grade? grow the fuck up.

i asked you that because a person's educational background says a lot about how they express their views and what they deem worthy. so chill out.

I admit I lean to the far right politically but don't ever assume because of my political beleifs that I can't grasp your point of view, I can I just don't agree with it. Normal doesn't offer a point of view he is quick to insult and fire off wacky accusation like the U.S today is a mirror image of Nazi germany in the 40's or we are all baby killeres

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

I admit I lean to the far right politically but don't ever assume because of my political beleifs that I can't grasp your point of view, I can I just don't agree with it. Normal doesn't offer a point of view he is quick to insult and fire off wacky accusation like the U.S today is a mirror image of Nazi germany in the 40's or we are all baby killeres

yeah that's why he posted that extremely long post citing certain amendments from the constitution SURE...

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

yeah that's why he posted that extremely long post citing certain amendments from the constitution SURE...

The fact that you will defend or justify anything that abnormalnoises posts speaks volumes about the type of person you are......

[sassa]

Originally posted by igloo

The fact that you will defend or justify anything that abnormalnoises posts speaks volumes about the type of person you are......

just shut up already

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by igloo

And have you stooped to new lows by justifying the repulsive hate that spews from abnormalnoises?.....pathetic

Do you have anything to contribute to this in a counter=arguable fashion? Namely even making the slightest attempt to disprove the fact that the patriot act violates the 1st 4th 4th and 6th amendments besides showing the immature dick you are?

Originally posted by igloo

The fact that you will defend or justify anything that abnormalnoises posts speaks volumes about the type of person you are......

The fact that you will stoop to even deeper lows to justify just how much of an immature hopeless dick you are each time you post speaks volumes about the type of moron you are. Especially when you have nothing to argue the point. Especially when you been proven wrong.

Now SHUT THE UP YOU RACIST FUCKTARD!!

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Read his posts nothing but rants that lack a single point or a counter rebuttal other then insults.

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?postid=1503087#post1503087

Read that post again and you will see what is pointed out. I pointed out the amendments of the patriot act and pointed out what amendments in the constitution it violated. amendment by amendment. Try disproving my points which obviously you cant based on your response.

If anyone in this thread who lack any form of single point it's you.

Sheep.

The revolution is coming.

"We the People" Void where prohibited by the Patriot act.

PS you moron: 3 states, (Alaska, Hawaii and Vermont) have already defied the Patriot act. Should we declare them terrorist states and bomb them?? Should New York defy the Patriot act, should we declare it a terrorist state and bomb it too?

And not only that, over 100 cities have already defied the Patriot act. Should they be declared terrorist cities and get bombed?

Conservatives are unifying with the liberals to fight against the Patriot act. Should we declare them terrorists and kill them?

And to top it off:

What will happen should the Mayor of Washington DC declare his city a patriot act "safe zone" and defy the patriot act? Should we declare that city a "terrorist zone" and bomb that??

Fucktard.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by normalnoises

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?postid=1503087#post1503087

Read that post again and you will see what is pointed out. I pointed out the amendments of the patriot act and pointed out what amendments in the constitution it violated. amendment by amendment. Try disproving my points which obviously you cant based on your response.

If anyone in this thread who lack any form of single point it's you.

Sheep.

The revolution is coming.

"We the People" Void where prohibited by the Patriot act.

PS you moron: 3 states, (Alaska, Hawaii and Vermont) have already defied the Patriot act. Should we declare them terrorist states and bomb them?? Should New York defy the Patriot act, should we declare it a terrorist state and bomb it too?

And not only that, over 100 cities have already defied the Patriot act. Should they be declared terrorist cities and get bombed?

Conservatives are unifying with the liberals to fight against the Patriot act. Should we declare them terrorists and kill them?

And to top it off:

What will happen should the Mayor of Washington DC declare his city a patriot act "safe zone" and defy the patriot act? Should we declare that city a "terrorist zone" and bomb that??

Fucktard.

Settle down, settles down you are going to strain yourself..

Lets go over the facts here and assess the situation with the Patriot Act and who it effects.

1st off, your little story about the feds visiting you I just don't beleive, although there is nothing more I would like to see then somebody put a muzzle on your rants but hey your are an American too I may not agree with you but it's your right. What I can't understand is you use the country when it suits you but quick to call it a evil dispicable regime and even went as far as comparing it to Germany that's hypocritical and wrong but that was covered earlier in a verbal reeming Cintron gave you...

Lets imagine for a second you were visited what were you doing to send up a red flag? If feds showed up at my door to ask me some question I wouldn't think twice about answering questions but out of the 300 million people in this country YOU had to have been doing something that raised that red flag.. Doesn't every red flag need to be investigated? The suspicion of illegal activity isn't just thought up it's based on activities that YOU are doing doesn't it need to be clarified so the country will be safer? isn't that lax attitude to red flags and early idications of evil get in trouble in the first place?? If it turns out you are innocent then so be it, it's not like they are going to hang you in your basement and torture you.. This will only bother people who have something to hide.. Do you have something to hide revolution boy???

Ashcroft and the Patriot act which since inacted has thwarted other terrorist attacks that's why liberals like yourself, are ringing the civil liberties bell instaed of preaching intelligence failure for another attack. The Patriot Act TARGETS foreigners who have exploited our weaknesses pre-Sept 11th by minipultaing or even ignoring our immigration laws and provide logistical and monetary support to terrorists. I see nothing wrong with the Patriot Act and I actually feel that it is a invaluable tool in fighting TERROR and that's what this is all about!!!!

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

just shut up already

As long as you are around spewing your anti-American bullshit, I will be there to shove it right up your rotted ass...

You are not smart--come to grips with it now, and end the self-induced lie.....

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by igloo

As long as you are around spewing your anti-American bullshit, I will be there to shove it right up your rotted ass...

You are not smart--come to grips with it now, and end the self-induced lie.....

As long as you are around spewing your racist bullshit, I will be there to shove it right up your rotted ass...

You are not smart--come to grips with it now, and end your self-induced lie.....

Go ahead, ignore me. I don't care.

Now shut the fuck up already and accept the fact you are a moron and accept what I say you are, chicken little.

So chicken little, how does it feel to be a moron?

---

And mrmas. You still have YET to disprove the unconstitutionality of the patriot act.

I mean, look, I want the terrorists dealt with as much as you do and the person next door does, but not at the expense of sacrificing our basic rights the bill of rights grants us.

When you sacrifice your basic rights you are sacrificing your security and safety and with that when you sacrifice these you are letting the terrorists win.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by normalnoises

As long as you are around spewing your racist bullshit, I will be there to shove it right up your rotted ass...

You are not smart--come to grips with it now, and end your self-induced lie.....

Go ahead, ignore me. I don't care.

Now shut the fuck up already and accept the fact you are a moron and accept what I say you are, chicken little.

So chicken little, how does it feel to be a moron?

---

And mrmas. You still have YET to disprove the unconstitutionality of the patriot act.

I mean, look, I want the terrorists dealt with as much as you do and the person next door does, but not at the expense of sacrificing our basic rights the bill of rights grants us.

When you sacrifice your basic rights you are sacrificing your security and safety and with that when you sacrifice these you are letting the terrorists win.

How would YOU solve the promblem?

[Drunk]

Originally posted by normalnoises

And mrmas. You still have YET to disprove the unconstitutionality of the patriot act.

Here's your constitutionality. Decided by a federal court: http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/fisa111802opn.pdf

[skince55]

Normal Noises...

The constitution was written in 1787. Last I checked we didn't have Al qada trying to blow us up every chance they got back then. America now has a new threat that our laws were considerably weak at protecting us from. In order to ensure our safety and well being new legislation had to be introduced(Patriot Act). Also if the patriot act could have prevented Sept. 11 had it been adopted by our government earlier would you still be against this legislation or do you just not care about the 3,000 innocent lives that were lost. You are paying the price to fight terrorism with the governments "invasion of your privacy"(which in my opinion as a law abiding citizen has had no impact on my life) while the victims of Sept. 11 payed with their lives. Yet you are the one complaining???? :confused:

Also what were you doing that the secret service investigated you??

MISSION STATEMENT

"The United States Secret Service is mandated by the U.S. Congress to carry out two distinct and significant missions: protection and criminal investigations. The Secret Service is responsible for: the protection of the President, the Vice President, and their families, heads of state, and other designated individuals; the investigation of threats against these protectees; protection of the White House, Vice President's Residence, Foreign Missions, and other buildings within Washington, D.C.; and security design, planning, and implementation at designated National Special Security Events. The Secret Service is also responsible for the enforcement of laws relating to counterfeiting of obligations and securities of the United States, investigation of financial crimes including, but not limited to access device fraud, financial institution fraud, identity theft, computer fraud, telecommunications fraud, and computer based attacks on our nation's financial, banking, and telecommunications infrastructure."

[igloo]

Originally posted by skince55

Normal Noises...

The constitution was written in 1787. Last I checked we didn't have Al qada trying to blow us up every chance they got back then. America now has a new threat that our laws were considerably weak at protecting us from. In order to ensure our safety and well being new legislation had to be introduced(Patriot Act). Also if the patriot act could have prevented Sept. 11 had it been adopted by our government earlier would you still be against this legislation or do you just not care about the 3,000 innocent lives that were lost. You are paying the price to fight terrorism with the governments "invasion of your privacy"(which in my opinion as a law abiding citizen has had no impact on my life) while the victims of Sept. 11 payed with their lives. Yet you are the one complaining???? :confused:

Also what were you doing that the secret service investigated you??

MISSION STATEMENT

"The United States Secret Service is mandated by the U.S. Congress to carry out two distinct and significant missions: protection and criminal investigations. The Secret Service is responsible for: the protection of the President, the Vice President, and their families, heads of state, and other designated individuals; the investigation of threats against these protectees; protection of the White House, Vice President's Residence, Foreign Missions, and other buildings within Washington, D.C.; and security design, planning, and implementation at designated National Special Security Events. The Secret Service is also responsible for the enforcement of laws relating to counterfeiting of obligations and securities of the United States, investigation of financial crimes including, but not limited to access device fraud, financial institution fraud, identity theft, computer fraud, telecommunications fraud, and computer based attacks on our nation's financial, banking, and telecommunications infrastructure."

Great response...but I should let you know abnormanoises is a social misfit stuffed with hate and mental disorders....and I am not kidding...

I just ignore the low-life freak because he is not worth it...he feeds off of normal people responding to his bile...

But good response