lomenus Posted August 7 Author Report Share Posted August 7 "oh please!! we had Sammie Smith...."UHAUAHAU.......Whoever gave the Terrell Davis qauote thank U...Give Marino a running gamegive him RIcky Williams today, n Marinowould have had a fist full of rings.....YES Football is the ULTIMATE team sport...u cant measure someone without takin a lookat who he was surrounded by.....Young in this discucion?? PFFFF U can leave...Tell U what , I ll give Jon Kitna , Jerry Rice (in his prime),John Taylor, Roger Craig, and that old 49ers ownerBartola (spelling?) million$$$ to build a defense..n U ll see how great Kitna, Couch, Plummer etc can be....I only see Tarkanton (good call), Elway, Montana, Unitas,that can be named as some of the greatest ever....I ve never respected the pussy-footing "west coast" offensewith there little 5 yrd outlet passes to the RB, or the quick slant..throw the ball down the field, line up in Shotgun formationattack!!!!!! Elway was prob the most althetically gifted QB in history...I dont care what peeps say bout Mick Vick.....MArino is the Greatest, his numbers speak for themselves...Vicman go look up 4th qauter come backs..go look up wins.... Marino n Elway tops the list....Elway lost 3 super bowls, n he helped Terrell Davis win 2....Marino the Greatest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skince55 Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman i totally agree. and i mentioned that in an earlier post. what did the bronco's have until terrel got there? sammy winder? tony dorsett?that was the dolphin's problems. why didnt they go out and get the necessary pieces to compliment marino on the defensive and offensive side like they are doing now? Elway's superbowl wins didnt come until terell was there....and as far as the dolphins not getting the necessary pieces to compliment marino, that is the organizations fault....not Marino's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman dude you dont know what your talking about. the afc west has always been one of the toughest divisions. raiders had decent teams teams throughout elways time in denver and kc the same. seahawks and chargers had a couple of good seasons in there also. you just lost all respect with that comment. the afc SUCKED MAJOR ASS. the raiders were consistiantly good. kc had a good run with the nigerian nightmare and their other running back, seattle, please, chargers?? you should be shot with that comment. you could win the division over there just by going 9-7 while everyone else was 4-12, that divison was weak as hell, hell, the afc central would have givin them a run for their money back then, with the oilers, steelers, bengals. anyway....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 marino is the best pure passing quarterback, no denying that. you just cant. and he's up there for the greatest. but being the greatest involves stats you cant measure. there is obviously no undisputed greatest QB. i like players that go the extra mile to get their team to win, qb's that'll scramble out of the pocket and get crushed on the goal line making the game deciding td. i hate prisscy players. save that shit for tennis or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomenus Posted August 7 Author Report Share Posted August 7 JrooI agreeBUT Marino did not have scrambling abilitesEVERYONE knows thisJim Kelly Elway, Warren Moon, even Montana could run a bitMarino coldn nothe had like 9 operations on his kneeshe didint have to scramble, he side stepped pass rushershe actually FELT the pressure RARELY did he get blind sightedliek al other QBS (HELLO MONTANA 1990 nfc championship gamev Giants)Marino GREATEST pocket presncse ever..am I the only one to remmebr what a bad ass Randall Cunninghamwas ...... he was Mick Vick BEFORE there was a Mick VIckthe play that forever stand out was in 1990 in BufaloCunningham is SCRAMBLING in his OWN endzoneBruce Smith ALMOST had him for a safety,Cuingham LAUNCHES a rocket like 65+ yrds to one of hisrecievers .. TOUCHDOWN 98 yrds in one play!!WOHAASPEACE MIAMI!!Can Fiedler PLEASE stay healthy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by jroo you just lost all respect with that comment. the afc SUCKED MAJOR ASS. the raiders were consistiantly good. kc had a good run with the nigerian nightmare and their other running back, seattle, please, chargers?? you should be shot with that comment. you could win the division over there just by going 9-7 while everyone else was 4-12, that divison was weak as hell, hell, the afc central would have givin them a run for their money back then, with the oilers, steelers, bengals. anyway....... check the record book sport. KC had 12-4, 13-3, 11-5 seasons druring that time frame, raiders won the super bowl in elways firts year and had good seasons with 12-4, 11-5 records various years, chargers made the superbowl in 91? or something.AFC central> pffffftttttt....NFC east and you would be credible yourself. make sure to check afc west teams records vs. other AFC rivals and gimme a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomenus Posted August 7 Author Report Share Posted August 7 Get outta here Vicman!!the Bills ruled the AFC in the early '90 sChargers went to Super Bowl in 1994n went back to their shitty ways, as usual..in those days CHargers, seahawks suckedraiders were ok,,only CHiefs n Broncos..PEACE MIAMI!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman check the record book sport. KC had 12-4, 13-3, 11-5 seasons druring that time frame, raiders won the super bowl in elways firts year and had good seasons with 12-4, 11-5 records various years, chargers made the superbowl in 91? or something.AFC central> pffffftttttt....NFC east and you would be credible yourself. make sure to check afc west teams records vs. other AFC rivals and gimme a call. the time frame im thinking of is from like 82-90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by jroo the time frame im thinking of is from like 82-90. i thought you guys were talking pre terrel davis and uniform change for the broncos. i thought we were talking in the past, some reason i wasnt counting the early 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 132-81 :dan marino's record as a starter148-82-1 : john elway's record as a starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 and what do you mean about the nfc east?? i didnt know what you were trying to say. the nfc east did have the best division pretty much all through out the history of the nfl. a little slack now, but not too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Elway retired as the winningest starting quarterback in NFL history with a 148-82-1 record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman 132-81 :dan marino's record as a starter148-82-1 : john elway's record as a starter they're not pitchers, you cant compare them like that. their stats are very comperable still. side note, i did not forget randall cunningham he was an exciting qb. brb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by jroo they're not pitchers, you cant compare them like that. their stats are very comperable still. side note, i did not forget randall cunningham he was an exciting qb. brb well people compare the 5,000 yards and 60,000 yards that marino had, etc. etc, etc, too bad that those 10 wins basically are the 10 elway got as a qb in the play offs compared to marino (well they were 7 but, 2 of them were super bowls ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skince55 Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman well people compare the 5,000 yards and 60,000 yards that marino had, etc. etc, etc, Passing Yards, Completion percentage, passes, etc are individual statisticsWins are Team statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by skince55 Passing Yards, Completion percentage, passes, etc are individual statisticsWins are Team statistics. and the qb is the most difficult position of them all. his 148-82-1 could easily be 101-129-1, if he didnt orchetstrate his orchestra to pull it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 ive got something for dat ass now, complete career passer ratings with a mininum of 1500 atmpts. 1 KURT WARNER + 98.2 51 2 Steve Young 96.8 3 Joe Montana * 92.3 4 JEFF GARCIA + 89.5 BRETT FAVRE 86.7 6 Otto Graham * # 86.6 7 Dan Marino 86.4 8 PEYTON MANNING 85.9 9 RICH GANNON 85.3 10 MARK BRUNELL 85.1 11 BRAD JOHNSON 84.6 12 Jim Kelly * 84.4 13 TRENT GREEN + 84.2 14 BRIAN GRIESE + 84.1 15 Roger Staubach * 83.4 16 Neil Lomax 82.7 17 Sonny Jurgensen * 82.63 18 Len Dawson * 82.56 19 Ken Anderson 81.9 20 Bernie Kosar 81.8 21 STEVE McNAIR 81.73 22 Danny White 81.72 23 NEIL O'DONNELL 81.24 Troy Aikman 81.62 25 Dave Krieg 81.50 26 Randall Cunningham 81.47 27 Boomer Esiason 81.1 28 STEVE BEUERLEIN 80.92 29 Warren Moon 80.90 30 CHRIS CHANDLER 80.7 31 Jeff Hostetler 80.48 32 Bart Starr * 80.47 33 Ken O'Brien 80.44 34 JEFF GEORGE ^ 80.42 35 Fran Tarkenton * 80.35 36 Dan Fouts * 80.2 37 John Elway 79.9 <----vic here is your boy ^ Banks (Hou), George (Sea), and Mirer (Oak) were on NFL rosters in 2002 but did not play in any games.+ Reached 1,500 career attempts during 2002 to qualify for list.ACTIVE IN 2002* Pro Football Hall of Fame Member# Includes All-America Football Conference (1946-1949) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Total Yards Passing 1 Dan Marino [7] 61,361 2 John Elway [37] 51,475 3 Warren Moon [29] 49,325 4 Fran Tarkenton* [35] 47,003 5 Dan Fouts* [36] 43,040 6 BRETT FAVRE [5] 42,285 Total Touchdown Passes 1 Dan Marino [7] 420 2 Fran Tarkenton* [35] 342 3 BRETT FAVRE [5] 314 4 John Elway [37] 300 5 Warren Moon [29] 291 [] indicates players all time passer rating rank. all these records will be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by jroo ive got something for dat ass now, complete career passer ratings with a mininum of 1500 atmpts. 1 KURT WARNER + 98.2 51 2 Steve Young 96.8 3 Joe Montana * 92.3 4 JEFF GARCIA + 89.5 BRETT FAVRE 86.7 6 Otto Graham * # 86.6 7 Dan Marino 86.4 8 PEYTON MANNING 85.9 9 RICH GANNON 85.3 10 MARK BRUNELL 85.1 11 BRAD JOHNSON 84.6 12 Jim Kelly * 84.4 13 TRENT GREEN + 84.2 14 BRIAN GRIESE + 84.1 15 Roger Staubach * 83.4 16 Neil Lomax 82.7 17 Sonny Jurgensen * 82.63 18 Len Dawson * 82.56 19 Ken Anderson 81.9 20 Bernie Kosar 81.8 21 STEVE McNAIR 81.73 22 Danny White 81.72 23 NEIL O'DONNELL 81.24 Troy Aikman 81.62 25 Dave Krieg 81.50 26 Randall Cunningham 81.47 27 Boomer Esiason 81.1 28 STEVE BEUERLEIN 80.92 29 Warren Moon 80.90 30 CHRIS CHANDLER 80.7 31 Jeff Hostetler 80.48 32 Bart Starr * 80.47 33 Ken O'Brien 80.44 34 JEFF GEORGE ^ 80.42 35 Fran Tarkenton * 80.35 36 Dan Fouts * 80.2 37 John Elway 79.9 <----vic here is your boy ^ Banks (Hou), George (Sea), and Mirer (Oak) were on NFL rosters in 2002 but did not play in any games.+ Reached 1,500 career attempts during 2002 to qualify for list.ACTIVE IN 2002* Pro Football Hall of Fame Member# Includes All-America Football Conference (1946-1949) so then trent green has to be better than elway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman so then trent green has to be better than elway? statistically , yes, sad to say, remember how i said football is a team game? im not taking anything away from elway, but they came up with the passer rating system just for this.on a side note, do you think that emmitt is better than barry sanders? without a doubt i can say that barry sanders was the best running back to ever run on the field. here are some all-time stats on that. Rank Player League Yrs Att Yds Avg TD 1 (2) EMMITT SMITH NFL 13 4,052 17,162 4.2 153 2 (1) Walter Payton* NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110 3 (3) Barry Sanders NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99 4 (4) Eric Dickerson* NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90 5 (5) Tony Dorsett* NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77 barry played for 10 years, in one more year he would have broken the all time record, but he retired. knowing barry's character he probably felt like he didnt deserve to be the all time leader so he left it for walter. ol' emmitt just doesnt know when to retire, but he gets props for breaking the record in the same amount of years as payton. I really did wish that barry had the line that emmitt had. he was so loyal that he wouldnt leave the lions that he would rather retire. its a shame they sucked so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jroo Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 Originally posted by vicman so then trent green has to be better than elway? and dont get me wrong, i would take elway over green anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullseye Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 How about a great quarterback who actually won a Super Bowl, in fact 3, Troy Aikman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 Originally posted by bullseye How about a great quarterback who actually won a Super Bowl, in fact 3, Troy Aikman. he head a great team around him. i think we mostly agree that there were other better pure QB's that did more in the position than aikman did. having emmit smith, michael irving and that cowboy team around him facilitated things a lot. IMO, a more valid point of discussion would be if those cowboy TEAMS could be considered as the best of all time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullseye Posted August 14 Report Share Posted August 14 its hard to argue against those cowboy teams of the early to mid 90's. If it hadnt had been for the 49er's beating them in the 1994 playoffs, that team could have easily won 4 straight superbowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomenus Posted August 14 Author Report Share Posted August 14 its hard to argue against those cowboy teams of the early to mid 90's. If it hadnt had been for the 49er's beating them in the 1994 playoffs, that team could have easily won 4 straight superbowls. and if anyone remebers in the NFC chamionshipgame inSan Francisco the year SF won it all...SF jumpd out to a 21-0 lead...Dallas has I think Nate Newton banged up, as wellas, if I remmebr correctly, Troy Aikman, n Emmit Smith..they were hurting, n they STILL rallyed back to makea game of it...I remember the offcials favouring the 49ers..they DIDNt call an OBVIOUS pass internece against Irvin....Dallas had momnentum, n that play killed off the Cowboys...DAMM I hate the 49ers... in reality Dallas should have won thatgame, injuries and all....and with a FULL HEALTHY loine up they would have strolledto an easy victory.....FUCK the 49ers!PEACE MIAMI!!RUN RICKY RUN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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