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Evan

This is some stupid crap

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http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030816/APN/308160585

This really pisses me off. I don't care who flames me on this subject. This is a perversion of justice.

1.) This guy does GHB with some sluts at his house who were on his bed. What did they think they were doing there? Taking dancing lessons?

2.) He gets arrested and sentence to LIFE. There are murderers out there who get out in 5-10 years.

3.) Now these sluts are getting awarded $19 million (and that's just the first award)????? There are people who have been permanently handicapped in accidents and get like $100,000 after a trial. Hell, Abner Louima got raped with a broomstick and got less.

This is ridiculous. I have slept with girls who have taken drugs with me. Now, because of stupidity like this, I won't be with a girl if she's fucked up or drunk. Maybe I should have some lawyers make some documentation for me to get signed before I have sex with any girls. Oh wait. That wouldn't be legal anyways, since they made that new law saying somone can change their mind halfway through.

Rape is a horrible thing. But when did we go from convicting rapists who mug women in dark alleys, to going after people with no evidence who have been accused of rape by women who went to their house and got on the guys bed?

I know some people are gonna slam me for this, but this is ridiculous. A LIFE sentence for supposed rape and awards of mulitmillion dollars to each girl???

Evan

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u have a point, but that article u've linked to doesnt support anything u're trying to say. there was only one woman there, not many sluts, and he gave her a date-rape drug and fucked her while she was unconscious, so she didnt exactly grant him permission to have sex with her. a life sentence maybe a lil too much, but he does deserve sum sort of punishment.

but i do think this feminist 'backlash' of sorts is going too far...everybody already knows abt how even a DNA test which proves u're not the father cant stop the judge from forcing u to pay for child support...and recently some state (i forget which one) passed a law to the effect that at any time during sex, if a woman says 'stop' and the guy doesnt stop, even if he's inside her abt to cum, from there on it can be considered rape!! now THATS really fucked up!!

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The 19 million is coming from him. The first girl is bankrupting him.

As for the details I listed in my post: This has been a very public trial and the facts are known. These girls came to his house, were in his bedroom, and were sitting on his bed. The only unknown is whether they wanted to have sex with him or not. The thing was, he was a KNOWN GHB user. He was a known playa. I saw him many years ago (from afar) and had girls point out to me "That guy is the Max Factor heir. He's really rich. He usually get's a table in the VIP section and does GHB with a bunch of hot model sluts" I saw him hooking up with mad girls and knew that guy got ass.

Evan

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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/18/national/main559185.shtml

"Two women in the tapes testified at trial that they willingly took drinks laced with GHB from Luster but never consented to sex. "

They came to his house, were on his bed late at night.... Again..what did they think they were gonna do there? Play Monopoly?

One time a girl I had been dating for a month and been having sex with since the 3rd date came over very drunk. We fooled around a bit, and then fell asleep. Durring the night, I woke up VERY horny and started making love to her thinking she would wake up to this. To my suprise, she stayed passed out the entire time. That was not what i was going for, but as the act was already done, i couldn't do anything about it. When she awoke in the morning, she looked at me weird and asked me if I had sex with her while she was passed out. I explained what happened. And she was mad. Mad that she hadn't woken up to enjoy it with me. We made love all that morning so I could make it up to her. We continued dating for a year. But I never forgot that night. If she had been a greedy BITCH and I had been a multimillionaire, she could have gotten me arrested and sued my ass for all its worth. That's exactly what happened to Andrew Luster.

Evan

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you are so wrong. just because you take ghb with someone doesnt mean you give them the right to have sex with you. she never gave him permission to touch her, she was passed out. i dont think people should feel free to touch someone because they passed out in your bed. you are very sick in the head if you think she is wrong. i think she deserves every penny and more. that is seriously fucked up. that kid needs counciling & should be in jail for life, he is obviously a danger to society, hopefully people learn from his mistake. if someone isnt capable of saying YES or NO, you do not try. and to think if he didnt tape it she wouldnt even know it had happened, that just makes him even more of an idiot who deserves what he got.

:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by somebitch

you are so wrong. just because you take ghb with someone doesnt mean you give them the right to have sex with you. she never gave him permission to touch her, she was passed out. i dont think people should feel free to touch someone because they passed out in your bed. you are very sick in the head if you think she is wrong. i think she deserves every penny and more. that is seriously fucked up. that kid needs counciling & should be in jail for life, he is obviously a danger to society, hopefully people learn from his mistake. if someone isnt capable of saying YES or NO, you do not try. and to think if he didnt tape it she wouldnt even know it had happened, that just makes him even more of an idiot who deserves what he got.

:rolleyes:

If a guy meets a girl in a club, and they do drugs together, and she passes out, and he gets intimate with her...that's WRONG. If a guy has been dating a girl, and they have had sex before, and she is at his house, sitting on his bed, and doing drugs together, and he has sex with her...That is NOT WRONG. Yeah, he should have waited for her to wake up and he shouldn't have recorded it. But can that justify a LIFE SENTENCE and NINETEEN MILLION DOLLARS?

There was a case last year where a man torched his house for insurance and accidently burned down his neighbors house too. A young boy was inside and got burned horribly and will have lifetime pains as well as scars. The man only got 8 years in prison and the boy received a TOTAL of $1.2 million.

Basically, this whole case got blown out of proportion. One ex girlfriend decided she wanted to take him for all he was worth and called the cops. Then when the cops found the videos, they reported to the other 2 girls that they had videos of them. They all decided then to sue him to make some money. These were KNOWN party girls. People were not allowed to tesify that these girls were known to sleep around fucked up and not fucked up.

Again, I want to reiterate that I beleive rape is wrong. I beleive that you have to have the consent of a girl before getting intimate. But, when a girl is a KNOWN party girl, and you have slept with her before, and she is sitting on your bed, and she is doing GHB with you, and you had no other plans for the evening, then you KNOW there is only gonna be one outcome of that event. These were not innocent little school girls on the way to grandmas house. These were bonafide hoes. And now they have raped this man of his freedom and his money.

The only way I'll admit that maybe he was a rapist is if the greedy bitches donated 100% of that money to rape counseling victims or something.

Evan

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Ok. Some people are messaging me to clarify what I am saying. Yes, I think he was wrong for having sex with unconsious girls and video taping it. I beleive the girls testimony though was blown out of proportion. Yes, I beleive he does deserve a punishment. But how do you explain a life sentence when a man can rape a child and get a 10-15 year sentence. And then if he does it again, just gets a 20 year sentence.

Women should always feel that they are safe to have the decision to decide what they want to do with their bodies. To have a man take advantage of a girl's unconsiocness is digusting and morally as well as criminally wrong. But can you know for certain that these girls who were dating him, and had slept with him before, and had taken the GHB on their own, had not given him permission to be sexual with them at any time?

Have you ladies ever woken up with your man making love to you? Would you tell him he was raping you or would you go along for the ride?

There is NO way to prove any consent after the fact. People can say they were raped at any time and they are beleived, but there is no way to prove that consent was given at any time. Think about that for a minute.

Evan

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Originally posted by Evan

Ok. Some people are messaging me to clarify what I am saying. Yes, I think he was wrong for having sex with unconsious girls and video taping it. I beleive the girls testimony though was blown out of proportion. Yes, I beleive he does deserve a punishment. But how do you explain a life sentence when a man can rape a child and get a 10-15 year sentence. And then if he does it again, just gets a 20 year sentence.

this stuff happens because you have a fucked up juristical system over there in america.

just think of the easily manipulated JURY!! what a fuckin joke! the musical "chicago" put it right: "razzel dazzel them", thats what american justice is about.

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i'd like to give him a nice fat dose of g so he'd pass out and i could video tape fucking him with a big fucking dildo without lube.

and than show the tape to all my friends too. take his money and send him postcards and pictures from all the places you go to while he sits in jail. fuck him.

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I think the only thing that matters is whether or not he'd had sex with these girls before. It certainly doesn't matter if they were "known party girls." Known party girls may be known to have sex with many guys. This doesn't imply consent to having sex with every person out there, even if they're not attracted to them!

Think of it this way, we start with no consent. Consent can be given, and consent can then be taken away. Once you have sex with somebody, my opinion would be that you give them consent to have sex with you, unless you communicate that you don't want to have sex with them anymore. So you have sex with a girl, and then a week later she gets drunk or falls asleep and you have sex with her while she's passed out that's okay unless she made it clear to you that she didn't want to have sex with you.... in which case it would be rape. (My opinion).

Think about this: let's say one night you f*cked some skanky ass hoe, and was like, damn, that was a mistake. Then a week later you're at a party, get drunk, pass out, and wake up to find her having sex with you. Rape?

But wait - it gets more complicated. What if you're having vaginal sex with your "girlfriend" and it's going great, and you're like "let's try anal honey" and she's like "no way." And you're like "yes way" and you hold her down and force anal on her. Rape? My opinion would be yes.

What if you have sex with a girl with both your clothes on. She falls asleep, and you open up her brazier and start fondling her. Sexual molestation? She never gave you consent to fondle her breasts. According to my rule, yes.

What if a girl sucks your dick, and then falls asleep? Okay to stick your dick in her mouth? My opinion would be yes. She already gave you consent.

At least that is the opinion I was _of_. My new rule was: if you've done it before, then you can do it while sleeping - unless of course, consent has been removed at some point. So.... my rule was, if you have sex with somebody, and don't want to have it again, you better be sure to tell them you don't want sex again, or you risk falling asleep/passing out and getting fucked by them.

Until I thought about the fact that these people never gave consent to have sex _while they were sleeping_.

No matter. I think my rule is a good one. Certainly a husband having sex with a wife while she is sleeping is not raping her - unless she's told him not to.... then it's rape.

Otherwise, to make the law more stringent they could say, you must plan it out beforehand. For instance, let's say your girlfriend's fantasy is to have sex with you while you're passed out. You agree to do this for her. You fall asleep, and she does you. That's obviously NOT rape.

However, if we insist that you MUST AGREE to sleep-sex BEFOREhand, (as suggested above) then we run the risk of unjustly harming innocent people. Any time a girl (or guy) feels "violated" they can call "rape" and destroy the life of their sex partner. What of the girl who's naked in your bed, never says anything, and never says stop? Rape? Not hardly. To suggest so would be to ensure an arbitrary justice system.

Our justice system is supposedly based on the premise of innocent until proven guilty, and "better ten guilty go free, then one innocent be imprisoned." I hope we are not moving towards a day of 'guilty before proven innocent,' and "better ten innocent be imprisoned then one guilty go free." In such a system, the easiest way to destroy your enemies is to accuse them of a crime... at which point they shall be summarily executed (though you might soon as well).

So what do you all think? Recall for a moment, that if you committ a crime under the influence of a drug or alcohol you are responsible for it. If you have sex with someone who is under the influence should that be rape? It may be quite a different situation..... innocent incoherent drunk girl (victim) vs. angry rambunctious drunk driver (victimizer)..... maybe.

However, must sleep-sex always be specified beforehand? And as a final caveat. What if BOTH partners are asleep and BOTH feel raped? What then? Kill them both??

http://www.sleepsex.org/

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UPON FURTHER CONSIDERATION.... I almost changed my mind and decided that sex while sleeping MUST be planned out beforehand. However this poses the problem that the first time one has sex with a sleeping partner, it most likely will NOT have been specified. For instance.... pick up girl at club. Fuck her like rabbits. Fall asleep. Wake up to her sucking your dick. RAPE!?!?

Guess so. But what if it's your girlfriend. Like I say, the first time it happens I doubt it would have been talked about.

The most important thing is to make sure you are not doing anything against the will of the other person. Yet this is not always so clear and easy or cut and dry. (Unless we decide to just all sit in our houses and never interact with one another in real life. Then it will be quite easy). ~1984~

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Seriously, the guy is a piece of shit and is getting what he deserves. Rape is a VERY serious crime and it's about time that rapists start getting punished fairly for what they've done. Just b/c they took drugs together does not IN ANY WAY make the woman more or less desserving of what happened to her. That's a pretty narrow minded generalizatoin to make and really makes me realize what little respect you have for women (which you've proved numerous times throughout your postings here.)

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WOW! Ok here is yet another one of those stories where the Justice system has once again fucked up.

First off, I dont know what to say on the subject of guilty or not guilty. It is a known fact that MANY people(men and woman) Cry wolf in certain situations where rape is the crime. Some for money some out of spite or hatred for the other person.

Rape is a very difficult crime to prove. DNA tests can Definitely tell whether or not both parties had intercourse, BUT it cannot tell whether or not it was willing. I think that if having sex with someone while they are asleep is considered rape, it should be noted in the rape laws.

I am not justifying things or siding with either party. Is the girl at fault, no. Its not her fault that she was raped(if she was). But she should be a bit more careful with herself. She should take care to know the people she does drugs with especially when they are heavy drugs such as were used that night.

Is he an idiot, HELL YES! How could you have that much money and do a stupid thing like videotape sessions with women? When you have money like that you have to be very careful what you do. There are always going ot be people out to get you.

Second, I dont understand the justice systems way of payment. How can anyone put a price on anguish, or emotional scarring? THEY CANT! I think a person should be compensated as far as medical bills and therapy if needed. Other than that the money can be put to better use. Donating it to a charity or center dealing with that particular crime or other would be a great idea. I doubt that woman has medical bills or therapy session adding up to 19 million dollars.

Honestly, aside from medical and therapuetical claims, I dont thing money should be awarded to a victim for personal use. And if it is, it should be harder to obtain. It might make people think twice before pulling off a stunt like that. I think that it gives incentive for sleazy money hungry people to cry wolf.

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Yes Evan i agree with you 100%. She should know that because she goes to a KNOWN GHB users house in the middle of the night that she deserves to be drugged & have her unconscious body used for sexual acts while videotaped (all against her consent) :rolleyes:

You stupid fuck, the point here is the issue of consent :idea:

A viable defense is not "what else does she expect at 3 am...etc"

Are your opinions based on legal precedent or your personal history, expereince & need to intoxicate or drug females to get laid?

You also have demonstrated you dont know the difference between criminal & civil law. :aright:

PS, stop putting your name at the bottom of each post (like thanks, Evan). We can tell by your screen name who wrote the fucking post. We are not as slow as you.

Thanks,

Tommy :laugh::laugh:

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Originally posted by tommyarmani

Yes Evan i agree with you 100%. She should know that because she goes to a KNOWN GHB users house in the middle of the night that she deserves to be drugged & have her unconscious body used for sexual acts while videotaped (all against her consent) :rolleyes:

You stupid fuck, the point here is the issue of consent :idea:

A viable defense is not "what else does she expect at 3 am...etc"

Are your opinions based on legal precedent or your personal history, expereince & need to intoxicate or drug females to get laid?

You also have demonstrated you dont know the difference between criminal & civil law. :aright:

PS, stop putting your name at the bottom of each post (like thanks, Evan). We can tell by your screen name who wrote the fucking post. We are not as slow as you.

Thanks,

Tommy :laugh::laugh:

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

i dont even think it matters if they have had sex in the past. if she was not conscious, she did not give consent and it is therefore rape. she did not enjoy it, she did not participate in it, he had sex with her body while she didnt know.

i would even go so far as to say that the story evan told with him fucking his girlfriend in the night while she didnt know could be considered rape if she chose to view it that way (unless they had spoken about it in the past and she said "sure have sex with me while im asleep if you want" or something like that)... like i said above, if someone cant say YES or NO, you have no right touchinng them. i guess that is a risk you take if you get off on fucking sleeping people. sick. :tongue:

thanks, kara :blank:

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Originally posted by somebitch

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

i dont even think it matters if they have had sex in the past. if she was not conscious, she did not give consent and it is therefore rape. she did not enjoy it, she did not participate in it, he had sex with her body while she didnt know.

i would even go so far as to say that the story evan told with him fucking his girlfriend in the night while she didnt know could be considered rape if she chose to view it that way (unless they had spoken about it in the past and she said "sure have sex with me while im asleep if you want" or something like that)... like i said above, if someone cant say YES or NO, you have no right touchinng them. i guess that is a risk you take if you get off on fucking sleeping people. sick. :tongue:

thanks, kara :blank:

Yeah. When she didn't wake up durring my sex encounter with her, I got scared that maybe I was pushing the envelope without meaning to. The last thing I wanted to be doing was to have sex with a sleeping girl. Durring the course of our relationship though, I woke up many times to her sucking or fucking me. She was just too passed out that night to wake up.

I DO feel that what he did was wrong. And I never said the girls were "asking for it". My whole point of this thread was is this worth a lifetime sentence and $19 million. A guy can rape 3 women on the street, and get a lesser sentence. This guy had sex with 3 sleeping girls that he was dating and had sex with before.

No girls answered my question. If you woke up one night to your boyfriend passionatly making love to you one night, would you scream rape or let him continue?

Oh.. and my name is

Evan

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Originally posted by tommyarmani

Yes Evan i agree with you 100%. She should know that because she goes to a KNOWN GHB users house in the middle of the night that she deserves to be drugged & have her unconscious body used for sexual acts while videotaped (all against her consent) :rolleyes:

You stupid fuck, the point here is the issue of consent :idea:

A viable defense is not "what else does she expect at 3 am...etc"

Are your opinions based on legal precedent or your personal history, expereince & need to intoxicate or drug females to get laid?

You also have demonstrated you dont know the difference between criminal & civil law. :aright:

PS, stop putting your name at the bottom of each post (like thanks, Evan). We can tell by your screen name who wrote the fucking post. We are not as slow as you.

Thanks,

Tommy :laugh::laugh:

Tommy, you may have had a rocky start on this board... but you have more than redeemed yourself by now. You're a-ok in my books! :aright:

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Originally posted by Evan

No girls answered my question. If you woke up one night to your boyfriend passionatly making love to you one night, would you scream rape or let him continue?

if i woke up to my lover kissing me and touching me, i would assume he was doing so in order to wake me up ... so we could make love passionately *together*

on the other hand, if i woke up with his penis in my mouth, my vagina or my ass, i would be shocked and angry because it would imply he was only interested in using my body to get off. otherwise, he would have woken my up first so i could become aroused and actually enjoy the experience with him.

i wouldn't "scream rape" until i heard the explanation for his behavior. but i don't see my boyfriend ever being such an insensitive, selfish prick.

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Originally posted by Evan

Yeah. When she didn't wake up durring my sex encounter with her, I got scared that maybe I was pushing the envelope without meaning to. The last thing I wanted to be doing was to have sex with a sleeping girl. Durring the course of our relationship though, I woke up many times to her sucking or fucking me. She was just too passed out that night to wake up.

I DO feel that what he did was wrong. And I never said the girls were "asking for it". My whole point of this thread was is this worth a lifetime sentence and $19 million. A guy can rape 3 women on the street, and get a lesser sentence. This guy had sex with 3 sleeping girls that he was dating and had sex with before.

No girls answered my question. If you woke up one night to your boyfriend passionatly making love to you one night, would you scream rape or let him continue?

Oh.. and my name is

Evan

you cant get money from someone who doesnt have it. i am sure if the guy on the street who raped 3 women had 19 million, his victims would be after it too. ask any lawyer, there is no point in sueing someone who has nothing, it is a waste of time and money... because he had it, he lost it & he deserved what he got.

and to answer your other question, i dont know but at least in the situation youre describing the person woke up to give some kind of consent. i think if the person doesnt express some kind of emotion or desire that she wants it, the guy should figure she doesnt and go back to sleep.

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See TastyT & somebitch, I just knew there was a warm person beneath those ultra tough exteriors! ;)

In all seriousness Evan, you have to realize that Rape is an act of VIOLENCE not of Sex.

Its about dominance, control & power... NOT sex. The fact that he was a good looking, charming, young millionaire who could easily get any woman (like yourself :rolleyes: ) does not come into the equation.

He liked to sedate girls & use them as his "props". He got off on the control of them, not on the actual sexual acts.

Thanks,

Evan

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Originally posted by Evan

No girls answered my question. If you woke up one night to your boyfriend passionatly making love to you one night, would you scream rape or let him continue?

No, I wouldn't scream rape. And no, it wouldn't bother me in the least if he started while I was asleep. However, the whole point should have been to wake me, so he really should not have gotten to the *passionate* part until I regained consciousness- and I am a light sleeper, so it would not take long. Had I remained asleep throughout the whole encounter... I would be seriously skeeved when I found out about it. I'm not sure how I would handle it if that were the case.

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Originally posted by tastyt

No, I wouldn't scream rape. And no, it wouldn't bother me in the least if he started while I was asleep. However, the whole point should have been to wake me, so he really should not have gotten to the *passionate* part until I regained consciousness- and I am a light sleeper, so it would not take long. Had I remained asleep throughout the whole encounter... I would be seriously skeeved when I found out about it. I'm not sure how I would handle it if that were the case.

yeah, seriously... if you want to have sex WITH someone, you'd want them conscious. otherwise, you're just using a person like an object.

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