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Israeli Provocation Root-Cause of Middle East Violence

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Israeli Provocation Root-Cause of Middle East Violence

The current phase of Intifada which started after a provocative visit of present Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to a Muslim holy site has not ended, but it seems that Israeli hardliners have not taken a lesson from it.

Still entangled in the implications of the ominous visit, Israelis once again allowed non-Muslim foreign tourists and Israelis Wednesday to visit Beit-ul-Moqaddas Al-Aqsa mosque compound despite opposition from Islamic leaders.

The visitors were accompanied by police who were mostly not wearing uniform, an AFP correspondent in the Old City witnessed.

The visits came a day after a Palestinian bomber killed 18 people and wounded more than 120 after blowing himself up aboard a city bus nearby.

The mufti of Beit-ul-Moqaddas, Sheikh Ekrima Sabri, criticized the move for being made without prior approval of the Waqf, the Muslim authority in charge of the site.

Waqf officials have said previously that they were looking to reopen the compound to help the Old City's struggling tourism industry but said the Israeli government should not take a unilateral decision.

Analysts believe that the Israeli radical cabinet has succeeded in its strategy of pitting the Palestinian against each other.

In a reaction to the blast, Palestinian prime minister Mahmud Abbas condemned the bus bombing in Beit-ul-Moqaddas as he called off planned talks with a faction which claimed responsibility for Tuesday's attack.

"I strongly condemn this act," Abbas told reporters here.

Abbas said he had ordered his security minister Mohammed Dahlan to open an inquiry into the incident.

A statement issued later by the Palestinian leadership, which includes the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian Liberation Organization, also condemned the attack.

Indeed the Israeli cabinet has been looking for such an opportunity to pit Muslims against Muslims to spread fratricide.

Approval for the visits was first announced last week by Israel's Internal Security Minister Tsahi Hanegbi, who said that failure to reach agreement with the Waqf would still not prevent the visits from taking place.

In late July, Israeli police suspended visits to the site by non-Muslims which had resumed several weeks earlier for the first time since the beginning of the Palestinian Intifada in September 2000.

The Intifada, or uprising, erupted following a controversial visit to the mosque compound by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon when he was still opposition leader.

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Originally posted by igloo

This is not a root cause retard.....you are pathetic...

And for one who always complains about biased articles---you are the Queen Bitch when it comes to spreading one-sided views...

:blank: whatever you say.

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Zionism Financially Thrives

By Creating False Pathos

Of Global 'Anti-Semitism'

The Heretical Press - UK


Nazis and Jews

At the 1958 World Jewish Conference in Geneva, Dr. Nahum Goldman, President of the World Zionist Organization, warned Jews that "a current decline of overt anti-Semitism might constitute a new danger to Jewish survival... The disappearance of anti-Semitism has had a very negative effect on our internal life."

Goldman was not the first Jew to recognize the common ground between Zionists and anti-Semites. In fact, ever since Zionism was invented by a Jewish journalist in the late nineteenth century, Zionist-inclined Jewish leaders have actually cooperated with anti-Semites, including Hitler's Nazis, in the prevention of Jewish assimilation.

The founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, himself entered into negotiations with the anti-Semitic Tsarist Minister of the Interior Plehve, who promised the Tsarist Government's "moral and material assistance" to the Zionist movement.

In 1937 the anti-Semitic Polish government sent the Michael Lepecki expedition to Madagascar, accompanied by Jewish community representatives, to study the possibility of sending Poland's entire Jewish population there, in order to set up a Zionist state on the island.

The possibility of setting up a Zionist state on Madagascar (which was in fact first suggested by Herzl himself) also received consideration from the Nazi government. In 1938, Hitler agreed to send the President of the Reichsbank, Dr. Hjalmar Schacht, to London for discussions with Jewish representatives Lord Bearsted and a Mr. Rublee of New York. The plan failed only due to intransigence on the part of the British government.

Another prominent Jewish leader, Haim Arlossorof, Secretary of the Histadrut, was also involved in similar negotiations with the Nazis according to the Protocols of the Knesset of 30.6.59 (the Israeli Hansard).

By the late 1930's, the German Jews were riding on a new peak of Zionist fervour, courtesy of the Nazi regime. Zionist organizations received three times as much in contributions in 1935-6 as they did in 1931-2, and the circulation of the Zionist weekly Judische Rundschau rose from 5,000 to 40,000. The Editor of the paper was the first to coin and make popular the slogan about the yellow star which Jews were later forced to wear: "Wear it with pride, the Yellow Star!" This was more than six years before Jews were forced to wear the star by law.

There is even a certain amount of evidence to show that Hitler was financed by Jewish interests. In his book, I Paid Hitler, Thyssen admitted that the Nazis themselves had been obliged to recognize the services rendered by the Jewish Simon Hirschland Bank in Essen, which had arranged Wall Street loans for Hitler through another Jewish bank in New York, Goldman Sachs & Co. For a long time no-one dared lay hands on the Simon Hirschland Bank, despite pressure from the extremist element of the Nazi Party.

And during the Nuremberg trials, Hjalmar Schacht requested that a Mr. Jeidels be called from America as a defence witness. According to a war-time edition of Time (3.7.42), Jeidels had been one of Schacht's closest cronies before the war. Hitler had even let Jeidels act as his deputy at the famous Standstill Agreement. By 1942 he had become a partner in the Jewish Lazard FrËres bank in Manhattan, but still "had access to choice Continental pipelines into Hitlerism."

But probably the most bizarre liaison between Hitlerism and Zionism was in Austria and Hungary, where prominent Jewish leaders actively cooperated with the Nazis in registering the Jewish population and keeping order in the ghettoes, in return for allowing the emigration to Palestine of thousands of young Jewish pioneers. The Nazis even agreed to set up agricultural schools for the would-be emigrants in Austria. This entire affair is described in rhapsodical terms in The Secret Roads by Jon and David Kimche, two prominent British Zionists. They describe how two young Jewish settlers made their way back to Berlin and Vienna in 1938 in order to put the plan to the Gestapo. Adolf Eichmann readily agreed to the scheme, and even expelled a group of nuns from a convent to provide a training farm for young Jewish emigrÈs. By the end of 1938, about a thousand Jews were being provided with training in these establishments. The two emissaries were allowed to move freely about Germany. They were even allowed to visit internment camps and select the most able Jewish youngsters for training and subsequent passage to Palestine.

Eichmann himself admitted to being a staunch Zionist, ever since he had studied Herzl's classic, The Jewish State (original title An Address to the Rothschilds) as part of his S.S. training. Eichmann attended, in civilian clothes, the commemoration ceremony of the thirty-fifth anniversary of Herzl's death. And in 1939 he protested against the desecration of Herzl's grave in Vienna. In 1937 Eichmann had visited Palestine on the formal invitation of a Zionist official. But he had scarcely arrived in the territory whereupon he was deported to Egypt by the British authorities. In Cairo, he was visited by a representative of one of the Jewish terrorist organizations Hagannah.

Even well into the war, in 1944, Eichmann still liaised with his Zionist friends. He made a deal with Dr. Rudolf Kastner, a leader of the Budapest Jewish community, that several thousand prominent Zionists would be allowed to emigrate to Palestine in return for Kastner keeping order amongst those who were being shipped to concentration camps.

The Kimche brothers paid tribute to Eichmann's efforts on behalf of the Jews in The Secret Roads. "Eichmann may go down in history as one of the arch murderers of the Jewish people, but he entered the lists as an active worker in the rescue of the Jews from Europe." They go on to point out that the Zionist agents in Europe regarded the British as "the chief enemy," not Germany.

From Let My People Go, Empirical Publications, Northern Ireland c. 1976. Authorship unknown. Names of Jews are shown in bold face throughout the publication.

The Heretical Press

PO Box 1004, Hull, Yorkshire HU3 2YT, England

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Gibson Says He's 'Softened'

Crucifixion Story In New Film

By Kevin Eckstrom

Religion News Service


Director Mel Gibson, under heavy fire from Jewish groups for his $25 million movie on the death of Jesus, has "softened the story" and made changes to make "The Passion" more palatable to critics, according to a spokesman. Scheduled for release next year during Lent, "The Passion" has some Jewish groups nervous it will resurrect old beliefs that Jews were responsible for the death of the Christian savior.

Paul Lauer, marketing director for Gibson's Icon Productions company, said Gibson has edited the film to show more "sympathetic" Jewish characters who were not calling for Jesus to be crucified. "We believe we have softened the story compared to the way the Gospel has told it," Lauer said in an interview. He pointed to Matthew 27:25, in which the Jewish mob calls for Jesus' blood "to be on us and on our children." "That's in the Gospel," he said. "It's not in our film." In addition, Lauer said the character of Simon of Cyrene, who was forced to carry the cross for Jesus, will be clearly labeled a Jew in the film. A shouting mob will include voices opposing the execution, Lauer said. Faced with vocal Jewish opposition, Gibson is mounting a pre-emptive public relations offensive to counter his critics -- all for a film that is still being edited. After regional screenings, Gibson has lingered with his audiences to listen to their advice.

In an effort to soothe concerns, Gibson is also hoping to launch "The Jewish Initiative" to recruit Jewish and Christian leaders to discuss the film's effects on Christian-Jewish relations. "We've gone out of our way to accommodate this process because we felt it was necessary and important, and to show that we care and that we're not callously sitting back saying, `Screw you, we're going to make the film we want to make,"' Lauer said.

Jewish groups, however, remain unconvinced. Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, said Gibson has been unwilling to preview his film for anyone but "pre-screened audiences." "The fact that Mel Gibson says this is a work in progress is something we welcome. I don't make light of it," Foxman said. "We respect his creative rights, but we also believe that creative rights come with a certain responsibility."

Invited Christian leaders who have seen the film offer near-universal praise. The Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, told The New York Times that Gibson was "the Michelangelo of this generation."

Lauer agreed that screenings were for "people closer to our circle of contacts," but told the Times that "there is no way on God's green earth" that critics like Foxman will be invited to previews. Foxman and others, he said, have been "dishonorable." The ADL first raised concerns in June after a group of nine Christian and Jewish scholars reviewed a draft script and concluded the film portrayed Jews as "bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-hungry."

Gibson threatened to sue after he said the draft script used by the scholars was stolen. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops arranged for the script to be returned and apologized to Gibson.

Rabbis who have screened the film say it threatens to undue decades of progress between Christians and Jews after the Vatican refuted the deicide charges in the Second Vatican Council from 1962 to 1965.

Gibson, however, belongs to a conservative Catholic group that rejects the modern papacy and Vatican II, including its overtures to non-Catholics and Jews.

Rabbi A. James Rudin, senior interreligious affairs adviser for the American Jewish Committee, emerged from a Houston screening "troubled" by what he saw as the film's suggestion that Roman authorities were powerless to stop the murderous rage of Jewish leaders. "The emphasis should be more on what killed Jesus, not who killed him," said Rudin, also a columnist for Religion News Service.

Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, an Orthodox rabbi who has close ties to evangelical leaders as president of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, also voiced concerns.

"I don't think he's out to get the Jewish community, or attack it, or even be insensitive, frankly," said Eckstein, who was invited to a screening but could not attend because of other commitments. "But I'm not sure if he is aware enough, or sensitive enough, to the history of what has happened because of this deicide charge."



Alton Raines


I was gaining a lot of respect for Gibson, ie this project... but now it appears he has buckled to the powers that be, the powers of "Z" as Rense.com likes to call it. The evidence and examples just continue to pile up, people -- there is a decidedly Jewish control over media. It is positively ridiculous for Gibson to have to alter one hair of this film to appease Jews or anyone else. What's next? Removing Jews altogether from scenes of crowds shouting "Crucify him! Crucify him!" (Mark 15:13) and replace them with extra Romans?? How about erasing the Pharisee's and Saducees altogether? Why not just sanitize and judaize the whole New Testament? Gibson has lost his cahones in dealing with these cut throat bastards, once again in the name of "ecumenical solidarity," which in itself is a blasphemy to the name of Jesus Christ. Lauer needs to reverse his statement entirely, and say flat out to the Jews and anyone else offended, "`Screw you, we're going to make the film we want to make!"

Up A River Called Denial


Ted Mettlach


Mr. Rense,

A disappointment. I avoid cinema but was waiting for "The Passion." Sadly, the film is now tainted; my interest in it evaporated. Seemingly, the producer has less passion than I imagined.

Ted Mettlach


From Sheryl Jackson

[email protected]


Both comments are exceptional. I hope that Mel Gibson is able to read what is written.

Bravo, bravo, bravo.

Write on, Mr. Raines, Write on.

Sheryl Jackson


Rob Russell


Dear Mel:

Jesus clearly did not try to make anyone happy. He told the truth as He knew it to be. There are things that we will not know until we die and ask Him. Simply, prayerfully follow your heart. If you do that, then you have done what He would hope. The good news it that regardless of your ultimate decisions, He can work with it. God Bless you. God's will be done.

Rob Russell


Michael Carlin



Of all the comments made about Mel Gibson, writer and director of the forthcoming film, "The Passion," I don't recall anyone calling him stupid. Along with all the commotion, Mr. Gibson has generated publicity and public interest worth millions-- and spent very little cash in the process. In the rush to praise, trash, encourage or denounce a movie that is not even completed, I'm surprised that no one has yet pointed out that this kind of response is probably exactly what an experienced producer and promoter of motion pictures, like Mr. Gibson, hoped to ignite.

I have a sneaky suspicion that Mr. Gibson will release exactly the film he always intended. By stirring up protest prior to completion, then "caving in" and agreeing to changes in the rough cut, he heads off much of the protest and concern, while stoking the public appetite for a film that initially, would probably been of interest to a fairly small audience, by Hollywood standards. It appears Mr. Gibson is playing a couple of moves ahead of the rest of us. Can't fault the man for playing the game well.

Now that everyone is paying attention, I hope they are not too disappointed when Mr. Gibson takes his $25 million and produces a film that is in accord with his personal beliefs, opinions, and view of history. I doubt this project is about filling movie theaters. If you don't believe you'd approve of, or enjoy the film that results from this, don't watch it. Last I checked, freedom of religion and the right to free speech, are still part of the national code of conduct. The choice we all get to make about Mr. Gibson's finished product is with our wallets.

Why Mel Gibson chose to create and finance this particular motion picture is his own business. Whether I choose to spend my dollars and any more of my time on it, is mine


From CM Ross


Why I will Not Be Watching 'The Passion'

Dear Jeff,

I am a Traditional Catholic, and I will not be watching "The Passion." Sacred scripture teaches us that "By their fruits, ye shall know them."

There is nothing in Mel Gibson's filmography that would suggest he is Catholic, and as a Catholic, I was frankly horrified by "Braveheart." It was filthy, obscene, and traumatic to watch the gore in it.

As a person of Scots-Irish descent, I was deeply offended to see my ancestors' hero depicted as a long-haired weirdo with paganistic facepaint. The biographies I have read of Sir William Wallace do not have any pictures of him like that. If this is how Mel Gibson treats Wallace, what will he do to Jesus Christ?

Movies were invented by the gentile inventor Thomas Edison, and the Jews promptly appropriated them as a propaganda tool to further their own ends. Using original documents and Jewish sources, Maurice Pinay made it plain in "The Plot Against the Church" that the Jews have wished to destroy Catholicism since its creation 2,000 years ago.

Having watched films made from 1916 to the present, I have searched in vain to find a film that accurately represents Catholic teaching and does not attack the Church in an overt or subtle manner. Movies have slowly become openly and increasingly anti-Catholic. When I have seen men who claim to be Catholic like John Ford misrepresent Catholic teaching in his films like "The Fugitive" and "The Quiet Man," I finally came to the conclusion that to make a good religious film, you have to be religious. And not a tool of the Jews.

I don't know why Mel Gibson made this film. I do know that Fr. Daniel Lord, S.J. worked very hard with the Legion of Decency in the 1930s to stem the rising tide of impurity and violence in films, writing the now famous Production Code with the assistance of another Catholic priest. Why isn't Gibson following it? Then as now, Americans recognized that people are affected by what they see, and that criminals are inspired by the glorification of violence to commit more crimes.

As for impurity, in 1902, Alessandro Serenelli attempted to molest little St. Maria Goretti, who was 11. After she resisted his perverted advances, he stabbed her repeatedly and left her to die. When he confessed to the crime, Serenelli admitted that reading dirty magazines led to the murder of the little girl. Most people in law enforcement know that reading and watching filth incites crime. So did St. Thomas Aquinas when he said that impurity leads to violence.

In fact, St. Alphonsus de Liguori wrote that those who speak obscenely murder souls and injure themselves, and lead others to act impurely because of their bad example and bad words. The Church Fathers, St. Alphonsus de Liguori, and Our Lady of Fatima all taught that "More souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than for any other reason."

The ironic thing about "The Passion" is that I don't even think it will be successful. You would think that being in the movie business, Mel Gibson et al would notice that "G" rated religious movies like the recent Italian TV movie on St. Maria Goretti are the most successful and earn the most money. Because of its violence, "The Passion" is slated to have an "R" rating. Thus, at times, the film industry's apparent hatred of Christianity and its values works against its own success.

"The Catechism of the Council of Trent" says that public sin requires public penance. If Mel Gibson is as serious about his religion as he claims to be, then he ought to publicly apologize for his bad example in his films, scandalizing the faithful with his filthy, gory movies; and promise to resurrect and follow the Production Code by making ONLY "G" rated movies in the future.


Miss Ross


D Hardgrave


Though Mel & Company may have taken some dramatic license with the face paint, CM, (you're talking about men who wore skirts, so smacking Mel about 'pagan' face paint is a bit silly) there is no sin in accurately portraying battle and the gore that really takes place therein! Or the true drama of life as it is, be it sexual or visceral, so long as the intent is honest. If you can't stomach what really happened to real men on real battlefields, don't go see it. You have a choice. You've neglected the great Catholic principle of second person effect, that is, if one has no direct intention of sin, but another vicariously or adaptively sins because of the first effect, the first party is not guilty, only the second party is guilty. For this same reason the nudes on the Sistine Chapel are considered blessed and holy and beautiful, not titillating, or sinful, though one might in his own wicked heart become titillated and lust and thus sin. You're laying the blame at the wrong heart and door! As for Catholic teachings, you can roam from here to timbuktu and find such wide variables on that as you can the Hindu religion! And while quoting great saints, don't forget Jerome, who said "Women during their period of menstruation are the cause of many maladies, including the death of small animals and the wilting of flowers." Not everything spouted by so-called saints made sense, was true or is of merit. Sin is born in the heart. Jesus (remember him?) said it was not what went into a man that defiled him, but that which came out of him. Your last statement is unrighteous judgement of Mel, which itself is sin. Where will you publically apologize and repent? "G" only movies? Better start scraping the scandalous ceiling of the Sistine, CM...!... but I think you need to talk to the Pope first!

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Inside View Of West Bank

Nightmare - 'One Huge Prison'

By Jim Phillips

Athens NEWS Senior Writer


When the Bush administration unveiled its "road map" for peace between Israelis and Palestinians, many observers hoped the plan would lead to genuine progress in resolving the long-standing and bloody conflict in the Middle East.

A retired Ohio University professor who recently visited the Gaza Strip and West Bank, however, said the violence and oppression seems to be as bad there as it has ever been.

"I wanted to see for myself what was going on over there," explained Jim Coady, a former linguistics prof who visited the region last month. Coady also visited the region last summer, he said.

Coady said getting into Gaza was quite a trick, as even journalists are now finding it nearly impossible to gain access to the area which is surrounded by a security fence. His arrangements were made surreptitiously, and he declined to reveal what they were.

"It's very difficult to get in," he said. "I'd rather not reveal my methods, if I could."

He described Gaza as a roughly triangular wedge of land, around 10 miles at the base and 20 miles on the sides, into which are crammed more than 1 million Palestinians. Within the strip, he said, unemployment is more than 80 percent, and Israel controls all elecricity. The Israelis have methodically taken control of the region's resources including water, he added.

"All they've left the occupants is the sand," he said. "These people are in a giant prison." He noted that there are only two gates out of the territory.

Coady also visited the West Bank, traveling to a "peace camp" near Masha where he saw part of the huge "security fence" the Israelis have begun building around the Palestinian territory.

What Coady saw during his time in the region left him with a bleak outlook for the hopes of peace. "It's the most depressing place I've ever visited in my entire life," he said. The so-called "security fence" now under construction -- actually, according to Coady, a huge and impassible wall -- is going to surround thousands of Palestinians in what will essentially be a giant concrete cell.

Among the sites Coady visited was the place where American activist Rachel Corrie was killed in March by an Israeli bulldozer operator, while she stood with a bullhorn in her hand, urging the operator not to destroy a building in the Rafah refugee camp.

Coady said he spoke with two eyewitnesses to the event, who told him that after the bulldozer ran Corrie down, it backed up and drove over her body again.

Coady also visited the site where British activist Tom Hudnall was shot to death by a sniper from an Israeli guard tower on the Egyptian border of the Gaza strip. "The saddest part of the story is, there were some kids out in the street," Coady said. "The firing started, and he went out to rescue a kid."

According to witness accounts, the 23-year-old activist was shot in the head while trying to pull children out of the range of sniper fire coming from the guard tower. He had taken a young boy out of the firing zone, and had gone back to try and rescue two young girls who were afraid to move, when he was killed.

Coady stressed that the name "security fence" hardly does justice to the barrier the Israelis are erecting. "This so-called 'security fence' is a football field wide, and on the two extreme edges are large rolls of concertina wire," he recounted. It is also protected by a deep V-shaped trench, he said. "If you went down (in it), you couldn't get back up," he said.

According to information from the Palestinian Environmental NGOs Network, the wall is being built from the northwest to the southwest of the West Bank. Even without possible expansions, it is expected to be at least 220 miles long when completed. It will average 25 feet high, with armed concrete towers, and a buffer zone of about 100 to 300 feet, for trenches, electric fences, cameras, sensors and security patrols. If completed with no expansions, it is expected to isolate 95,000 Palestinians, or around 4.5 percent of the West Bank population, as well as cutting off 200,000 people in East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank.

"They are essentially building giant prisons for the Palestinians," Coady said. "They really don't want to look at these Palestinians... You should see it. It's unbelievable."

The daily life of Palestinians, Coady said, is a steady stream of harassment, never-ending threats of violence, and petty humiliations at the hands of Israeli soldiers. He recalled staying with a Palestinian family whose home was near a guard tower. From inside the house, Coady looked out at the guard tower, and drew the guard's eye. "I'm standing about five feet inside the kitchen, and suddenly the guard fires off a round, just to let me know he sees me," he said.

During the night, he heard the rumbling of tanks on patrol. "The owners of these homes say, 'Don't go out at night -- if you even stick your nose out, they'll kill you,'" he recalled.

The harassment is unceasing, and according to Coady, seems designed to make the Palestinians lives as miserable as possible in the hopes that they'll emigrate. Though the Israeli government has said it is getting rid of checkpoints, he said, they have simply switched from permanent checkpoints to mobile ones. For the Palestinians who commute to work, there is never any certainty that they'll be allowed to get to their jobs.

He cited the case of a woman who worked in Jerusalem, about 10 minutes from her home in normal circumstances. On any given day, however, the gate through which she must pass may be closed without explanation, or there may be an hours-long wait. "You never know. It's just random," he said. "It's harassment that is mind-numbing, and it just goes on and on."

For the Bush "road map" to work, it was generally believed that the Palestinians would need to stop suicide bomber attacks and the Israelis stop the steady encroachment of settlers into Palestinian territory, which often entails the destruction of Palestinian homes.

Coady said that the Palestinians Authority, out of sheer desperation, does seem to be making an effort to stop the bombings. "Oh, definitely -- they're trying," he said. "They were ready to have a cease-fire. What's damaging them right now is, the Israelis aren't doing anything but pro-forma stuff. They're still building the wall, they're still building the settlements."

Despite the promise of the "road map," Coady concluded, "they haven't changed a thing. It's a giant police state, and nothing has changed for the Palestinians as far as I can see, from when I was there last summer. It's a big shell game." Coady suggested that the Israelis may be deliberately trying to goad the Palestinians into increased violence, to justify going on with business as usual.

"They want the Palestinians to start shooting again," he alleged. "Because all the American public hears is, 'Those Palestinians started shooting again.'"

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Gibson is a known anti-semite, as is his father who has been quoted as saying that the Holocaust never happened. Both Gibsons are members of a church that has renounced the Vatican.

just thought that needs to be known when discussing this

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Originally posted by seximofo2k

So Sassa you feel that Arabs are not at all to blame for the problems of the MidEast its just those damn fascist Jews????

nope. arabs have been very stupid also with their actions in the past. both sides are to blame. but what bothers me the most is the common people are sacrificed, from both sides.

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Originally posted by breakbeatz2

Gibson is a known anti-semite, as is his father who has been quoted as saying that the Holocaust never happened. Both Gibsons are members of a church that has renounced the Vatican.

just thought that needs to be known when discussing this


what church is this? the vatican is crap to begin with.

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Posted on Fri, Aug. 08, 2003

Mel Gibson screens Crucifixion film


Associated Press

NEW YORK - Those who have seen Mel Gibson's film about the final hours of Jesus Christ have called it beautiful, magical, a great and important work.

Those who think "The Passion" could fuel anti-Semitism, however, haven't been allowed to see the film. Seven months before its release, this extraordinary vanity project is stirring passions over Gibson's exclusionary screenings and the potential for a negative depiction of Jews.

Not just Jews are concerned - the film was first questioned by a nine-member panel that included Christians. Gibson is a member of an ultraconservative Catholic movement which rejects the Vatican's authority over the Catholic church.

Gibson has said the film is faithful to the account of the crucifixion in the four Gospels and is meant "to inspire, not offend."

The star of the blockbuster "Lethal Weapon" movies and Oscar-winning director of "Braveheart" has spent nearly $30 million of his own money to produce, co-write and direct "The Passion," starring Jim Caviezel as Jesus and Monica Bellucci as Mary Magdalene. Filmed entirely in the dead languages of Aramaic and Latin, it has yet to secure a distributor.

In recent weeks, the actor-director has been building support with invitation-only screenings for film industry insiders, conservative commentators, evangelical Christians and sympathetic Jews.

Trailers of the two-hour movie have turned up on some Web sites. A 4 1/2-minute preview will air for tens of thousands of people attending a Christian festival this weekend in Anaheim, Calif.

Ted Haggard, president of the National Evangelical Association, saw a screening in late June with about 30 evangelical scholars. The scholars are very strict about adherence to scripture, so Gibson "had no assurances that we would be friendly toward that movie."

But Haggard loved it. "I thought it was the most authentic portrayal I've ever seen."

Cal Thomas, a conservative syndicated columnist, called the film "the most beautiful, accurate, disturbing, realistic and bloody depiction of this well-known story that has ever been filmed."

Internet personality Matt Drudge told MSNBC: "It depicts a clash between Jesus and those who crucified him and speaking as a Jew, I thought it was a magical film that showed the perils of life on earth."

But critics of "The Passion" - who have not seen the film - worry that the popular Hollywood superstar will attract millions to see a violent, bloody recounting of the crucifixion that portrays Jews as a frenzied mob eager to watch Jesus die.

"For too many years, Christians have accused Jews of being Christ-killers and used that charge to rationalize violence," said Sister Mary C. Boys, a Catholic professor at the Union Theological Seminary who read an early draft of the script. "This is our fear."

Boys and others on the committee of nine Christian and Jewish scholars that reviewed the script said Gibson may be skewing public opinion by screening the film primarily for conservatives.

"Why doesn't he show it to us?" said Abraham Foxman, the director of the Anti-Defamation League. "If in fact the film is a loving film, a sensitive film, I'll be out there proclaiming and saying it's wonderful."

Paul Lauer, marketing director for Gibson's Icon Productions company, said a screening will be held within a month for Jewish leaders, whom he would not name. He said Gibson first wanted to vet it before Christian scholars for accuracy.

Foxman, and those scholars who read the early script, will not be invited to future screenings, he said.

"We'd rather start from scratch with new people that we haven't had any bad experiences with," Lauer said. "We feel like we've been prejudged."

Lauer said the committee of scholars obtained a stolen, outdated script that is completely different from the rough cut of the film being screened. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued an apology this spring after learning a staff member had obtained a draft, and the script was returned.

Boys said an Icon employee provided an intermediary with the script.

While Gibson said "The Passion" will be the most authentic account ever of the crucifixion, Boys said the script she read presented the Jews as more culpable for Christ's death than the Romans who executed him.

It only recounts the last 12 hours of Christ's life, she said, and therefore lacks the context to explain the Jews' portrayal. "It seems to me that the film looked on Jews as antagonists, Jesus as this perfect victim," she said.

Boys and others said they have received anti-Semitic hate mail after being quoted in news reports criticizing "The Passion." Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, said the center has received several dozen letters related to his criticism of the film.

Gibson said in a June statement that he and his film are not anti-Semitic. "My intention in bringing it to the screen is to create a lasting work of art and engender serious thought among audiences of diverse faith backgrounds (or none) who have varying familiarity with this story."

But what is Gibson's version of the story? His traditionalist religion rejects the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, which in 1965 rejected the notion that Jews were collectively responsible for killing Jesus. The actor is building a traditionalist church in Malibu, Calif., for about 70 members, and intends to hold Sunday services there in Latin.

His father, Hutton Gibson, was quoted in a New York Times Magazine article in March as denying the Holocaust occurred.

Meanwhile, film industry observers are wondering whether this film can find an audience.

Lauer said the film has not sought a distributor, but that at least three major studios are interested. Also, although the recent screenings have included English subtitles, Icon hasn't decided whether to include them in a major release.

"I don't know that he will be able to find a studio that will distribute this," said Kim Masters, a film columnist for Esquire Magazine.

Masters said industry people who have seen the film respect its quality, but said it is disturbingly graphic.

"It's not a family film, from what I understand," she said. "It's a really difficult film."

Well thats just the first article i found just now i;ve read this stuf in many many places and if need be can find outher sources to confirm this and much more. The church is called the Traditionalist Church.

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Originally posted by skince55

Do not defend the muslim religion when someone on here attacks it.

i wasn't attacking christianity. i was attacking the vatican. please don't be dense. :blank::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

oh, wait...look who i'm talking to.

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i think in response to Gibsons movie someone should produce a nice movie graphicalle and accurately depicting the Crusades, or maybe the Inquisition, or maybe......

how about we stop throwing blame in the past and learn from pur mistakes. nothing good can come from this movie, except hatred. hes claiming this movie as the "truth" which i tihnk is also very immature of him.

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Originally posted by breakbeatz2

i think in response to Gibsons movie someone should produce a nice movie graphicalle and accurately depicting the Crusades, or maybe the Inquisition, or maybe......

how about we stop throwing blame in the past and learn from pur mistakes. nothing good can come from this movie, except hatred. hes claiming this movie as the "truth" which i tihnk is also very immature of him.

adding more fuel to the fire, so to speak?

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