Bush and Blair

[marksimons]

Hi there,

I've just found this website, and it looks interesting, and this bit of it in particular.

I'm a student at Liverpool University in England, and man, things are fucked up. Bush and those sligthly derranged neo-cons have been amazing in their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of respect for humanity.

Blair has dragged Britain along, for god knows why, in fact god might be the reason, and he's being grilled for lying now. well, by proxy. but we know the truth.

It feels like pretty much the whole country realises that he lied about the reasons for war in Iraq - you could argue the whole country knew before anyway, what with at least 1.5 million on the streets of London this year - what a sight, and what a feeling, to go out with all those people then get home to liverpool, after a nice long day smokin' away, to go clubbing and have a great time with your mates. Truely life affirming.

Anyways, there needs to be an awakening of political consciousness amongst the under thirties, how the fuck can we do this? We need to get young folk, more young folk that is, from America, the UK, Europe, I've had a great time clubbing in Serbia, they love it, we need everyone to know how much everyone else likes to party, and not fight. We need to get chatting to those students in Iran, we need to work out how to solve the world's problems and not make them worse.

You guys need to start by cutting the head off the serpant, get rid of Bush, and look into investigating why you guys went to war.

Then you can look forward, we all know the drug laws are screwed, and I'm guessing that clubbers are the same the world over for their physical, and mental endurance when it comes to getting fucking twatted on whatever substance is your drug of choice at that time. Will the current lot of republicans and democrats be addressing the issues that actually affect our lives? I somehow doubt it.

There are ways to do stuff though, and sooner than we think...

[sassa]

thank you

[breakbeatz2]

this post is completely idiotic

we need to not fight but smoke blunts all day?

wow this hippie needs to get a grip on reality. as most europeans do.

all this "clubbing will unite the world" bs, damn man, stop poppin dem pills and read a history book

what was wrong with invading Iraq??? we sure as hell didnt make things worse. you brats over on the other side of the atlantic got yor asses kicked by Hitler cause you thought the problem would go away, and clearly you guys are acting in the same exact way right now!

one thing i've learned from studying and working in finance is that history repeats itself. well, thats pretty clear if a lotof people over there believe the same things as this dude.

[marksimons]

what was wrong with invading iraq?

well.

it was illegal for a start.

the reasons keep changing.

and it HAS made things worse. this is abundantly clear by the fact that people are being attacked, raped, there is little electricity, water, the terrorist stuff, the searches, the bombs, the 7000 + dead civilians.

I'm not just a hippy.

do you even know about the Project For A New American Century - PNAC http://www.newamericancentury.org/ do you know how many of their members are in positions of power in the white house?

can you not see that this is a continuation of the right wing policies that existed under regan, who was much like Dubya in the sense that he didn't really know what was going on and was controled by those behind the scenes.

when has war ever solved anything?

tell me what it's made better.

tell me how it's made america more secure. how it's made iraq more secure.

and I have read a history book or few, I'm a student of history.

do you know much about the Nazis? their rise to power, how they worked, how they manipulated language, how their propganda worked.

do you even understand how cloesly linked things at the top of your country are. the oil, electricity, press, weapons, whitehouse.

I'm far from a hippy, but seriously the rest of the world can see what the US is doing, has been doing, where it is going, and how we can stop it.

are you going to defend bush and his neocon agenda. please, your'e defending the indefiensible.

we've not even touched upon american domestic policy... tax cuts... defecits... privatisation... screwed up prison system...

[skince55]

Originally posted by marksimons

when has war ever solved anything?

You sure your not a hippy, cause for a history student that's a pretty stupid question to ask. Lets see....what has war ever solved?????????

Nazism

Communism

Facism

Genocide

Slavery

Saddam Hussein and his boys

[sassa]

Originally posted by skince55

You sure your not a hippy, cause for a history student that's a pretty stupid question to ask. Lets see....what has war ever solved?????????

Nazism

Communism

Facism

Genocide

Slavery

Saddam Hussein and his boys

so, according to you: murder+ more murder= beneficial for peace???

[breakbeatz2]

how else can you respond to terrorism?

[sassa]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

how else can you respond to terrorism?

why do you think terrorism happens in the first place, 'professor'?

[skince55]

Originally posted by sassa

so, according to you: murder+ more murder= beneficial for peace???

murder + inaction = Endless Murder

[skince55]

Originally posted by sassa

why do you think terrorism happens in the first place, 'professor'?

Here you go again, justifying terrorism.

[sassa]

Originally posted by skince55

murder + inaction = Endless Murder

so if you don't murder in return, that means you're inactive?

[skince55]

Originally posted by sassa

so if you don't murder in return, that means you're inactive?

How else was Nazism going to end?

How else was Slavery going to end?

How else were mass genocides throughout the history of the world going to end?

[breakbeatz2]

Originally posted by sassa

why do you think terrorism happens in the first place, 'professor'?

because fools are encited by peole who profit off violence

making this a chiken or egg question is pointless and foolish

you can do that to any argument

violence will always be there

there is NO excuse for terrorism against innocent civilians i dont care what the reason

if those rats at least targted military personell itd be a different story. they would get their stone-age asses knocked back to their filthy caves

but instead they choose to attack defenseless women and children pathetic

[sassa]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

because fools are encited by peole who profit off violence

making this a chiken or egg question is pointless and foolish

you can do that to any argument

violence will always be there

there is NO excuse for terrorism against innocent civilians i dont care what the reason

if those rats at least targted military personell itd be a different story. they would get their stone-age asses knocked back to their filthy caves

but instead they choose to attack defenseless women and children pathetic

exactly. but if they're not israelis or westerners, according to you, they are not innocent and do not deserve to live?

[sassa]

Originally posted by skince55

Here you go again, justifying terrorism.

and how does that comment justify terrorism? :rolleyes:

[breakbeatz2]

Originally posted by sassa

exactly. but if they're not israelis or westerners, according to you, they are not innocent and do not deserve to live?

i never said that you throw falacies around like tic tacs

Israel never intentionally goes after palestinian women or children. if you believe that, then you are out of your mind. war responds in a war-like fashion, it strategically strikes against its enemies, and of course, as in any war, certain civilians get injured.

what exacerbated this situation is that te palestinian civilians are amicable to the terrorists, and hide them in their homes and communities. when you do that, you accept the risk of getting hurt when Israel comes after the terrorists.

palestinian terroirsts go after women and children, they avoid military targets because of their cowardice, and because they know they cannot match up against Israel's military.

and what is MOST IMPORTANT in this argument:

Israel will benefit from peace. its economy will benefit, its people will benefit, the way of life in Israel will benefit. Israel's military spending will notgo down nor will the aid it gets. so NOBODY in Israel benefits form the fighting

Palestinian terrorist leaders DO benefit from the fighting. they mainatin power and get money from their people. their lives would be menaingless without this fighting.

the Palestinian common people are just pawns being manipulated by the terrorist leaders, much like most Europeans wre being manipulated by the Vatican during the Crusades.

however, these Pawns are dangerous indeed. and Israel has to protect itself from a people who brought this fate upon themselves back in 1947. ANd if you want to go into a debate on the last 56 years, then lets do this. i studied the history of Israel (in a very liberal University mind you, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor) and read books on the matter written from both sides.

[skince55]

Originally posted by sassa

and how does that comment justify terrorism? :rolleyes:

because terrorism is wrong regardless of circumstance, and your statement reiterates your belief that you find the people at the receiving end of a terrorist attack are more to blame than the terrorist themselves because the victim’s must have done something to incite the terrorists.

[sassa]

Originally posted by skince55

because terrorism is wrong regardless of circumstance, and your statement reiterates your belief that you find the people at the receiving end of a terrorist attack are more to blame than the terrorist themselves because the victim’s must have done something to incite the terrorists.

if YOU choose to believe that, fine, go ahead. but i do not. that's sad. but not surprising coming from you.

[sassa]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

i never said that you throw falacies around like tic tacs

Israel never intentionally goes after palestinian women or children. if you believe that, then you are out of your mind. war responds in a war-like fashion, it strategically strikes against its enemies, and of course, as in any war, certain civilians get injured.

what exacerbated this situation is that te palestinian civilians are amicable to the terrorists, and hide them in their homes and communities. when you do that, you accept the risk of getting hurt when Israel comes after the terrorists.

palestinian terroirsts go after women and children, they avoid military targets because of their cowardice, and because they know they cannot match up against Israel's military.

and what is MOST IMPORTANT in this argument:

Israel will benefit from peace. its economy will benefit, its people will benefit, the way of life in Israel will benefit. Israel's military spending will notgo down nor will the aid it gets. so NOBODY in Israel benefits form the fighting

Palestinian terrorist leaders DO benefit from the fighting. they mainatin power and get money from their people. their lives would be menaingless without this fighting.

the Palestinian common people are just pawns being manipulated by the terrorist leaders, much like most Europeans wre being manipulated by the Vatican during the Crusades.

however, these Pawns are dangerous indeed. and Israel has to protect itself from a people who brought this fate upon themselves back in 1947. ANd if you want to go into a debate on the last 56 years, then lets do this. i studied the history of Israel (in a very liberal University mind you, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor) and read books on the matter written from both sides.

let's. why not. i went to school in israel for a few years. perhaps we can debate what we learned in our respective schools. i went to a jewish school in the north. i am israeli also. i was very very pro-israel back then. ironically, when i moved to the USA, i began to see things otherwise.

[breakbeatz2]

a jaded israeli how nice

so you think when Israel was invaded, everyone who participated in the invasion did not relinquish their claim on the land? when millions of people packed up to leave, assuming that the land was going to be retaken and they would come back, then saw that Israel prevailed, and then all of a sudden you had million of refugees crying le tme back in?

nobody will refute that Israel never ever asked palestinians to leave then. it was of their own stupid free will.

and Israel has prevailed time and time again. yet it didnt keep the land it won from Egypt, nor has it expanded its borders on its own accord.

when you lose a war, you concede and give up what you lost. the people living around Israel are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

[sassa]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

a jaded israeli how nice

so you think when Israel was invaded, everyone who participated in the invasion did not relinquish their claim on the land? when millions of people packed up to leave, assuming that the land was going to be retaken and they would come back, then saw that Israel prevailed, and then all of a sudden you had million of refugees crying le tme back in?

nobody will refute that Israel never ever asked palestinians to leave then. it was of their own stupid free will.

and Israel has prevailed time and time again. yet it didnt keep the land it won from Egypt, nor has it expanded its borders on its own accord.

when you lose a war, you concede and give up what you lost. the people living around Israel are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

there is sooo much history involved in this. that is not exactly how it went.

bye for now

[marksimons]

the point is.

right now the AMERICAN LEADERS PROFIT FROM WAR...

breakbeatz... you really don't get it...

when was israel invaded?

do you know much about how israel was founded.

do you know the role america, and england, played in setting up the nazis.

israel has prevaled time and time again? why?

they're the only middle eastern country with nukes, right now.

america supports them.

do you know much about the wall their building?

do you know the conditions in which the palesitians live?

muppet.

however, sassa, knows the score...

[breakbeatz2]

Originally posted by marksimons

the point is.

right now the AMERICAN LEADERS PROFIT FROM WAR...

breakbeatz... you really don't get it...

when was israel invaded?

do you know much about how israel was founded.

do you know the role america, and england, played in setting up the nazis.

israel has prevaled time and time again? why?

they're the only middle eastern country with nukes, right now.

america supports them.

do you know much about the wall their building?

do you know the conditions in which the palesitians live?

muppet.

however, sassa, knows the score...

Israel was invaded in may of 1948 by a coaliton of Arab countries as soon as Israel proclaimed its statehood. this invasion was led by syria, egypt, jordan, lebanon, and iraq.

Their combined intention was expressed publicly by Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."

now you say israel has prevailed because it has nukes????? how the fuck did you come to that sherlock? it has never used nukes, nor has its nukes prevented Egypt and other Arab countries from repeated attempts at invasion, ALL of which were repelled WITHOUT the use of nukes. Israel will not use its nukes against any of its neighbors, as its nukes are not intended as a first strike weapon.

so instead of asking stupid questions to which I know the answer to and you obviously dont, how bout you go back to the sandbox and let the big boys play, ok?

sassa, you should really tell this guy to get lost, him defending you only makes you look even worse

[igloo]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

Israel was invaded in may of 1948 by a coaliton of Arab countries as soon as Israel proclaimed its statehood. this invasion was led by syria, egypt, jordan, lebanon, and iraq.

Their combined intention was expressed publicly by Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."

now you say israel has prevailed because it has nukes????? how the fuck did you come to that sherlock? it has never used nukes, nor has its nukes prevented Egypt and other Arab countries from repeated attempts at invasion, ALL of which were repelled WITHOUT the use of nukes. Israel will not use its nukes against any of its neighbors, as its nukes are not intended as a first strike weapon.

so instead of asking stupid questions to which I know the answer to and you obviously dont, how bout you go back to the sandbox and let the big boys play, ok?

sassa, you should really tell this guy to get lost, him defending you only makes you look even worse

Nice work

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by skince55

murder + inaction = Endless Murder

And you are supporting it politically blind one.