kramadas Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Palestinian leader urges bigger U.S. role as peace disintegratesFriday, August 22, 2003 Posted: 9:42 AM EDT (1342 GMT)Mourners carry Abu Shanab's body as his wife and son look on Israeli missile attack kills Hamas leader Ismail Abu Shanab.GAZA CITY, Gaza (CNN) -- Thousands of Palestinians packed the streets of Gaza City on Friday to mourn the death of top Hamas leader Ismail Abu Shanab and denounce Israel for killing him. Many of the Palestinians fired gunshots into the air, and chanted angry messages against Israel, which remains on high alert, fearing a retaliatory attack for Abu Shanab's death. CNN Correspondent Michael Homes estimated the crowd at around 50,000 people. Abu Shanab was considered by many to be a moderate member of Hamas' political wing and was an architect of the Palestinian cease-fire, in effect before the most recent violence. The Israeli military, however, said he had been involved in recent attacks against Israeli civilians. (A talk with Abu Shanab) He had been buried earlier on Friday. He had been one of the founders of the fundamentalist Islamic organization. Almost immediately after the Hamas leader and two of his bodyguards were killed on Thursday, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades -- the militant offshoot of Arafat's Fatah movement -- said they would no longer abide by their self-declared cease-fire. The Israeli strike on Abu Shanab came two days after a bus bombing that killed 20 people in Jerusalem. Both the military wing of Hamas and Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for that terror attack. Both groups have carried out numerous attacks on Israeli civilians and military targets in the past. As a security measure before Abu Shanab's funeral, Israeli forces reestablished road blocks along Gaza's main highway, effectively dividing the strip into three parts, and stopping thousands in southern Gaza who wanted to travel to Gaza City for the funeral. Israel had dismantled the road blocks a few weeks ago, as part of a goodwill gesture. Three Israeli missiles had hit the car carrying Abu Shanab and his bodyguards Thursday as they drove through the Rimal neighborhood of Gaza City. The two bodyguards were also killed. A call for U.S. observation unitsAhead of the Palestinian Authority's meeting with an Egyptian representative Friday, Palestinian Cabinet member Yasser Abbed Rabbo called for a "strong American role -- stronger than before." Rabbo has asked the United States for strong observation units in the region. He has also asked the United States to send a message to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon urging him to give the Palestinian Authority a chance to control security. "The Americans should tell everybody and Sharon himself, they should respect completely the road map," Rabbo said. "Implement it all, without preconditions, without excuses, and without delay." "If this happens, perhaps, we can resume things the way they were." Israel should have allowed the Palestinian Authority to follow through on its plans to crack down on the terror groups, before launching the missile strike on Abu Shanab, Palestinian Cabinet member Rabbo said. A plea for 'road map'With the situation rapidly deteriorating, the Bush administration's Mideast "road map" was facing one of its toughest challenges to date. At the United Nations, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell urged Palestinian and Israeli leaders to stick to the road map -- a step-by step plan for peace and the establishment of a Palestinian state. The alternative, Powell said, would be "a cliff that both sides will fall off of." An 'ugly crime'Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas called the Israeli airstrike on Abu Shanab an "ugly crime" that was "against peace and the peace process." Foreign Ministry spokesman Gideon Meir said Israel "had no choice" but to strike after Tuesday's suicide bombing. Video from the scene showed a gutted car in flames with angry Palestinians gathering in the streets. Abu Shanab's body was carried to Shifa Hospital, where thousands of Palestinians demonstrated, many of them calling on Abbas to resign. Ismael Hania, a Hamas spokesman, addressed the crowd, vowing to avenge the death and calling on Abbas to resign. "Leave the Palestinian territory immediately instead of fighting our people," Hania said of the new Palestinian prime minister. Palestinians put crackdown on terror 'on hold'According to an aide to Palestinian Authority security chief Mohammed Dahlan, the missile strike came shortly before Palestinian police intended to launch raids against Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Elias Zananiri, Dahlan's spokesman, said Palestinian security forces had been given new rules of engagement, which would have allowed them to arrest militants and confiscate weapons. He said the new measures would have stripped Hamas and Islamic Jihad of their military wings. "Now everything is put on hold," Zananiri said. After Tuesday's bus bombing, Israel warned it cannot take further steps along the U.S.-backed road map to peace unless "substantial and meaningful" steps are taken against militants staging attacks. Palestinian Authority Information Minister Nabil Amr called the Gaza attack "irresponsible" and said it would obstruct Palestinian efforts to crack down on militants. "Now the Palestinian Authority has to re-evaluate the decisions from last night and the necessary steps taken to protect the Palestinian people," Amr said. CNN correspondent Michael Holmes contributed to this report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by raver_mania Palestinians put crackdown on terror 'on hold'According to an aide to Palestinian Authority security chief Mohammed Dahlan, the missile strike came shortly before Palestinian police intended to launch raids against Hamas and Islamic Jihad. ....yeah right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted August 22 Author Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by igloo ....yeah right Well, we'll never know now...For any sort of progress there has to be trust on both sides... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by raver_mania Well, we'll never know now...For any sort of progress there has to be trust on both sides... The PA should have been doing this long before more innocent Israeli's was needlessly murdered....Perhaps then, Israel could trust the PA's intentions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted August 22 Author Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by igloo The PA should have been doing this long before more innocent Israeli's was needlessly murdered....Perhaps then, Israel could trust the PA's intentions.... True, but that was under a different leadership...they never gave Abbas a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 abbas needs to something dramatic to get people's attention. the thing is, this eye for an eye shit is going to continue, and hamas or jihad islamiyy definitely do not care what the PLO does. the problem with most people's perceptions of them is that they think these groups are in cohoots with the palestinian authority, which isn't true. it gets irritating after a while to see people bitch about why the palestinian officials aren't doing more to stop terrorism. these people have their own agenda, and they are not going to budge from it.perhaps if the israelis did not impose such horrible living conditions and restraints on people to live decent lives, maybe they would become more lenient in their views. certainly no one likes to see innocents get killed for something that does not involve them directly. the true victims are non-zionist jews and common palestinian farmers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by raver_mania True, but that was under a different leadership...they never gave Abbas a chance. I am not so sure about that...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by sassa abbas needs to something dramatic to get people's attention. the thing is, this eye for an eye shit is going to continue, and hamas or jihad islamiyy definitely do not care what the PLO does. the problem with most people's perceptions of them is that they think these groups are in cohoots with the palestinian authority, which isn't true. it gets irritating after a while to see people bitch about why the palestinian officials aren't doing more to stop terrorism. these people have their own agenda, and they are not going to budge from it.perhaps if the israelis did not impose such horrible living conditions and restraints on people to live decent lives, maybe they would become more lenient in their views. certainly no one likes to see innocents get killed for something that does not involve them directly. the true victims are non-zionist jews and common palestinian farmers. Are you fucking kiding me???????...The PLO is not in cahoots with Hamas and Islamic Jihad????......Arafat is not a terrorist???????HOW FUCKING STUPID AND BLIND ARE YOU?????????????And fuck you, again blaming Israel and justifying terrorism and murder.....you are a miserable piece of shit--you really are....Your existence is one giant insult ....fuck you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted August 22 Author Report Share Posted August 22 Actually, I don't think the PLO has much control over Hamas...not sure about Islamic jihad. I agree these organizations have their own agenda, but the only way Abbas can get any attention is by making some serious arrests, and stripping of weapons. However, in order to prevent Abbas from looking like an Israeli puppet, Israel has to stop targeted killings of "non-ticking bombs". Otherwise this tit for tat shit will continue forever, with more innocents getting killed.When will these people(Palestinians) realize that blowing up innocent civilians will NOT get them freedom.And when will they(Israelis) realize that fencing off large parts of Palestinian territory, oppression and humiliation of innocent Palestinians will NOT get them security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by igloo Are you fucking kiding me???????...The PLO is not in cahoots with Hamas and Islamic Jihad????......Arafat is not a terrorist???????HOW FUCKING STUPID AND BLIND ARE YOU?????????????And fuck you, again blaming Israel and justifying terrorism and murder.....you are a miserable piece of shit--you really are....Your existence is one giant insult ....fuck you grow up, stop the insulting. explain yourself like an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by raver_mania Actually, I don't think the PLO has much control over Hamas...not sure about Islamic jihad. I agree these organizations have their own agenda, but the only way Abbas can get any attention is by making some serious arrests, and stripping of weapons. However, in order to prevent Abbas from looking like an Israeli puppet, Israel has to stop targeted killings of "non-ticking bombs". Otherwise this tit for tat shit will continue forever, with more innocents getting killed.When will these people(Palestinians) realize that blowing up innocent civilians will NOT get them freedom.And when will they(Israelis) realize that fencing off large parts of Palestinian territory, oppression and humiliation of innocent Palestinians will NOT get them security. you do have a point. maybe that was a tad naive of me to say they have no links. i'm sure they do. but what i meant was that each group does things their own way. hamas is not about to take order from the plo and vice versa. and you're right about the suicide bombings. but considering their living conditions, perhaps looking at this from their psychological perspective will help people understand just why they blow themselves up. living in such areas probably fucks them in the heads so badly, they feel like there's nothing left to live for. extremely high levels of depression and suicide exist among them. gaza is the most condensed area in the world, i believe it's 50,000 people with each sq. km. that's really bad. no wonder so many are fucked in the head. look at the conditions that are imposed on them. same argument can be made for many holoucast survivors, who suffered from many emotional, psychological problems after they were free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by raver_mania Actually, I don't think the PLO has much control over Hamas...not sure about Islamic jihad. I agree these organizations have their own agenda, but the only way Abbas can get any attention is by making some serious arrests, and stripping of weapons. However, in order to prevent Abbas from looking like an Israeli puppet, Israel has to stop targeted killings of "non-ticking bombs". Otherwise this tit for tat shit will continue forever, with more innocents getting killed.When will these people(Palestinians) realize that blowing up innocent civilians will NOT get them freedom.And when will they(Israelis) realize that fencing off large parts of Palestinian territory, oppression and humiliation of innocent Palestinians will NOT get them security. Having "control" and being in "cahoots" in two very different things.....huge difference......Not sure what you mean of "non-ticking" bombs....but Hamas = terrorist.....this nonsense of political wing vs military is bullshit...Hamas is a terrorist organization, plain and simple...The tit for tat will end when the PA, those elemens who truly wants peace and will co-exist with Israel, take on the terrorist groups, the PA elements who support the terrorists, and Arafat.......it is as simple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skince55 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by sassa and you're right about the suicide bombings. but considering their living conditions, perhaps looking at this from their psychological perspective will help people understand just why they blow themselves up. living in such areas probably fucks them in the heads so badly, they feel like there's nothing left to live for. extremely high levels of depression and suicide exist among them. gaza is the most condensed area in the world, i believe it's 50,000 people with each sq. km. that's really bad. no wonder so many are fucked in the head. look at the conditions that are imposed on them. There are people with terrible living conditions all over the world. You don't see those people strapping bombs to themselves to blow up as many of their neighbors as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by sassa grow up, stop the insulting. explain yourself like an adult. Fuck you.....If there is anyone who seriously needs to grow up and join reality it is you, you fucking ignorant child....Your views are insulting, and your thoughts are offensive, and your constant justification for terrorism and murder is reprehensible........to expect not to get it shoved back into your ass demonstrates what an imbecile you are...Fuck you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by skince55 There are people with terrible living conditions all over the world. You don't see those people strapping bombs to themselves to blow up as many of their neighbors as possible. true, but they are not people all over the world. that's what they feel fine about doing. also, not everyone around the world lives in the situation they do. you cannot even begin to compare. if you can, please specify how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 oh yeah. this doesn't mean i'm justifying their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by igloo Fuck you.....If there is anyone who seriously needs to grow up and join reality it is you, you fucking ignorant child....Your views are insulting, and your thoughts are offensive, and your constant justification for terrorism and murder is reprehensible........to expect not to get it shoved back into your ass demonstrates what an imbecile you are...Fuck you Once again you prove your worthlessness and your degenerosity.Once again you prove your immaturity.If anyone who is an ignorant child it's you.If anyone who is justifying terrorism it's you.You support murderers.Please continue to play with your barbies and legos or whatever little toy that hardens your dick.No wonder other countries hate us. All they have to do is listen to your ignorant childish racist drivel and they see the absolute proof.You are a clown. Put on your makeup.Go masturbate with the rest of the associates you follow... dickfuck!!YOU ARE AN IMBECILE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted August 22 Author Report Share Posted August 22 Originally posted by skince55 There are people with terrible living conditions all over the world. You don't see those people strapping bombs to themselves to blow up as many of their neighbors as possible. Not that I condone it, but this is a slightly different situation. Many of the people around the world (and correct me if I'm wrong) can't do much about their living conditions, ie, its due to poverty and corrupt governents. However, in the case of ISrael/Palestine, they can focus all their rage, depression against whom they see as the cause of their misery. And when this rage is aided in its focus by terrorist groups such as Hamas, you have what exists today.Sassa - I understand what you say about their living conditions driving them to do what they do...but when will they realize that strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent Israeli civilians (not even settlers) is NOT solving anything.BTW, my position on settlers - I have very little pity or compassion for them...they put themselves in harms way by settling on land thats not theirs, and they are also responsible for terrible terrorist/mob attacks against innocent palestinian civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullseye Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 how cool is it that the israelis can blow up a car, from a helicopter, on a very busy street and get the man they wanted to get. technology rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seximofo2k Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 Originally posted by igloo Are you fucking kiding me???????...The PLO is not in cahoots with Hamas and Islamic Jihad????......Arafat is not a terrorist???????HOW FUCKING STUPID AND BLIND ARE YOU?????????????And fuck you, again blaming Israel and justifying terrorism and murder.....you are a miserable piece of shit--you really are....Your existence is one giant insult ....fuck you Was it really necessary to start cursing at her and putting her down cause you disagree with her? Whats the point already give it up already its ruining every post this time your instigating........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 Originally posted by seximofo2k Was it really necessary to start cursing at her and putting her down cause you disagree with her? Whats the point already give it up already its ruining every post this time your instigating........ It is way beyond disagreement.......She and everything she stands for is insulting and offensive......she hates this country with a passion, and continually justfies terrorism and murder....She does not offer honest debate and dissent---she offers outlandish justification and appeasement for cold blooded murderers, and hate bile for this country........THAT is what ruins good discussions hereIf you can't see that, that is your serious issue......and if you don't like the fact that I blast her, too bad....and if you think "cursing" her is worse than the vomit she spews here, than I suggest you shove a reality stick up your ass...Thanks for your input, but quite frankly, keep it to yourself next time--..How I chose to respond to a despicable human disease like Sassa is my call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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