France is clearly turning into an enemy

[igloo]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

following your logic....so did Germany and Russia. why are you just attacking france?

As usual, no....as usual, you are wrong...as usual, you don't know shit......France was the ringleader......take off your blinders

[igloo]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Because, by France, Russia and Germany following their own interests they didn;t break international law, as blatantly as the US did.

THe US went into Iraq for its own self interest...and France was vehemently against the war for whatever reasons (self interest probably being the biggest reason)...

I really don't see the need or reason to denigrate the French for standing up for their own interests, and refusing to be at the US' beck and call.

(1) The U.S. did not break international law.....far from it. Not even close. Here is the FACT if you want to go down that path: The U.S. and the 1991 coalition were still in a state of war with Iraq since Iraq did not adhere to the ceasefire agreements. Saying the U.S. broke international law in completely illegitimate.

And let's not forget the security council voted 15-0 on a resolution that warned of serious consequences. Serious consequences in diplomatic language means war.

And, you can not bring up international law and self interests in the same sentence the way you are. Just because France self interests happens to align itself with international law, does not mean they are basing their self interest on or within international law.

(2) The U.S. did go into Iraq for their own self interests-national security. Damn straight and thank God, and the U.S. national security should not be held hostage to the self interests of France or have to be "justified" by a UN vote from France or Russia. Not in a post 9/11 world that became more dangerous due to inaction.

(3) Like I said, something is to be said that the self interest of France was keeping Saddam Hussein in power. Yes, you could bring up the fact that the U.S. at one time supported Hussein. And yes, at the time he was not a saint, but he became progressively worse and more brutal over time. Big difference.

And it was in the U.S. interest to support Iraq when he first came to power---to provide a counter-balance to spreading Iranian influence in the region. And it was not just the U.S. who supported Iraq, but the entire Western and Arab world fearful of growing Iranian regional dominance. Tough situations require tough decisions, and sometimes the lesser of two evils must be chosen. It sucks but it is reality.

That is a big difference when compared to supporting Hussein today for absolutely NO REASON after decades of atrocities, mass murder, WMD, and instigating war.

(4) I will repeat...as an American citizen, whether you agreed with the war or not, is it shameful to defend the French. Their behavior is reprehesnible, and worse--still is.

They did not have to support the war, they did not have to agree with their "friend" the U.S., BUT, their proactive diplomacy and aggressive undermining of the U.S. cost lives--for both the U.S. and Iraqi's. It undermined any chance for international agreement. It sent the wrong signals to Saddam Hussein. It sent the wrong signal to terrorists and rogue states who view the U.N. as useless.

They did not need to be at the U.S.'s beck and call. The U.S. did not want France to be at their beck and call. This is not the point.

The French wanted Saddam Hussein in power. That is their self interest. And for what?????....To defend that in itself is disgraceful. Not to mention a huge element of this was Chirac's desire to use this as a way to elevate France on the world stage by simply being anti-American. The French could give two shits about debating the merits of the war. This is what you defend? This is a true ally?

Their self interest made the war more difficult, made reconstruction more difficult, and cost more lives. Iraqi lives, and the lives of your countrymen.

History will show, it already is if you read increasingly critical French editorials, that the "self interest" of France was misguided and not in the long term "self interest" of the world.

Fuck France and anyone who defends them. They fucked the U.S. big time on Iraq, they fucked the Iraqi's and still do, and to say any different is repulsive.

[igloo]

And I am cranky today

[igloo]

Today, The U.N. is pulling out of Baghdad...

What an excellent message to send to terrorists...

Fucking disgraceful........another ripple effect traced back to France

[mr mahs]

FAWKING DISGRACE

We should pull funding and boot those yellow cock suckers out of NY...

[cintron]

well, looks like the terrorists are going to get what they wanted.

They're going to completely fuck and destroy all of Iraq's remaining infastructure just to get rid of foreign presence, then if we leave, they're going to blame the fact that their country has no infastructure on us.

and people wonder why others think that part of the world is completely fucked in the head. I may not like bush but shit like this definitely makes me want him to step up and kick somebody's ass.