European Dishonor-Sharia on the Old Continent

[igloo]

December 03, 2003, 8:40 a.m.

European Dishonor

Sharia on the Old Continent.

By Lorenzo Vidino & Erick Stakelbeck

Young women killed for dating. Limbs amputated for petty theft. Makeshift courts deciding the fates of members of local Muslim communities. The Western world has grown accustomed to hearing about the brutalities of Islamic law. However, these primitive practices are no longer limited to the remote tribal areas of Pakistan, the backward kingdom of Saudi Arabia, or oppressive, mullah-dominated Iran. Today, thanks in large part to a massive flow of immigration from Muslim countries, sharia law and medieval customs are becoming increasingly common in the heart of Christian Europe.

One of the most shocking examples of this new reality occurred in Sweden last year, when a Kurdish woman was killed by her father for having a romantic relationship with a Swedish man. Fadime Sahindal, 26, had taken her father and brother to sharia court in 1998, alleging that they had threatened to kill her for refusing to marry a Kurdish man the family had chosen for her. The two received only light sentences, however, and continued to abuse Fadime until, in 2002, her father shot and killed her. Disturbingly, the young woman was well aware of the fate that awaited her, as she said during the 1998 trial: "The only way for the family to regain its honor now that I have spread dishonor over it is to kill me."

Cases similar to Fadime's have been reported in France and Denmark. In England last September, a Kurdish father slit his daughter's throat because he disapproved of her Christian boyfriend and Westernized way of life. And, recently, in the port town of Taranto in southern Italy, a Muslim man who suspected that his wife had committed adultery decided — after consulting with members of his local Muslim community — that she should be stoned to death. The tragedy was only averted thanks to the intervention of local police.

Honor killings are not limited to Muslim countries and are, in fact, a common practice in several third-world cultures. Not all Muslims approve of them, and, according to some Muslim scholars, they do not reflect "real Islam." Nevertheless, the Koran itself permits men to beat their wives (Chapter 4, Verse 34), and the sharia-inspired penal codes of most Muslim countries give the benefit of the doubt to a man who kills his wife, daughter, or sister for engaging in adulterous or immoral behavior. This barbaric practice, which has not been seen in European countries in well over a century, is making an unsavory return within the Old Continent's Muslim communities.

The effects of the application of sharia in Europe are not limited to Muslim women. Last year, in the small Italian town of Eboli, hospital workers treated a young Algerian man whose fingers on his right hand had been chopped off. Under questioning, the man refused to reveal how he had sustained his injuries, but investigators have no doubt that he was the victim of punishment carried out according to Islamic law. Authorities in southern Italy, where many migrants from North Africa flock to work in agriculture, are becoming accustomed to such incidents. A Sicilian doctor revealed to the Italian magazine Panorama that victims of violent sharia justice go to the hospital only as a last resort, "when the bleeding is serious." He added that he had become knowledgeable about how amputations must be made according to Islamic tradition (the hand has to be chopped off piece by piece, without breaking any bones).

While these incidents may seem isolated, in actuality, several Muslim groups in Europe openly advocate the introduction of sharia in the West. Uneducated immigrants might use sharia simply because it is a system they are more familiar with, but militant Islamic organizations push for the introduction of Islamic law because they believe it is a superior system, the law revealed by God, and therefore the only acceptable law.

In Germany, Milli Gorus, a militant Turkish Islamic organization with more than 200,000 members, is accused by German intelligence of promoting Islamic law among Turkish immigrants in Europe. The August 2001 issue of Milli Gorus's official publication, Milli Gazete, featured an article stating that "A religious Muslim is also at the same time an advocate for sharia. The state, the media, and the courts have no rights to interfere. The allegiance of a Muslim to sharia cannot be condemned or questioned."

In Britain, the rapid spread of radical Islam in urban areas has led to major social exclusion and the development of sharia among England's Muslims. Al-Muhajiroun, a London-based fundamentalist group with sympathizers throughout Britain's burgeoning Muslim communities, has made the struggle against "man-made law" one of the key points of its agenda, declaring that its members do not recognize English law, but only Islamic law. (Nevertheless, al-Muhajiroun's leaders do not disdain collecting unemployment benefits generously granted by English "man-made law.")

In Italy, mainstream Muslim groups have asked for the introduction of Islamic marriages with no legal effects under Italian law, a de facto subtraction of the wedlock from the control of authorities. This request is aimed at creating a situation where two different legal systems regulate the lives of two different groups of citizens within the same state. In European legal history, it would represent a jump back to the Middle Ages, when different laws applied to different ethnicities. In practical terms, it would mean that Italian citizens of Muslim faith would be subtracted from the guarantees that the Italian legal system provides to its citizens. Therefore, while Christian Italian women would have the same rights as Italian men, Muslim Italian women would have very few rights. While a Christian woman would have the right to obtain a divorce simply by filing papers, a Muslim woman would have to go to great lengths to prove ill treatment at the hands of her husband.

Multiculturalists and leftist defenders of uncontrolled immigration, uneasy when confronted with episodes of the brutal application of sharia in Europe's Muslim ghettoes, are quick to predict that these incidents will disappear once Muslims are wealthier and better integrated into Western society through marriage to native Europeans. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that these predictions will come true in the foreseeable future. Muslims in Europe account for the vast majority of those living under the poverty line, and Muslim neighborhoods are the poorest areas in nearly every European city. Furthermore, statistics show that the majority of European Muslims are not marrying indigenous Europeans but other Muslims, either from their country of origin or from within local Muslim communities.

Politically correct European politicians, ever mindful not to offend their newly arrived Muslim brethren, have done little to aid in the assimilation process. As a result, immigrants who settle in Europe's Muslim communities are often greeted with the same sharia-inspired mayhem that they left behind in their countries of origin. From England to Holland to Greece, many European Muslims have managed to segregate themselves from society at large and maintain harsh traditions ill-suited to the West. As the number of unassimilated Muslims grows and Europe's elites continue to remain silent, the ultimate victim may turn out to be Western civilization itself.

— Erick Stakelbeck is head writer and Lorenzo Vidino is an attorney and terrorism analyst at the Investigative Project, a Washington, D.C.-based counterterrorism think tank.

[marksimons]

only 30% of europe is actively - go to church - christian, and most of them are probably exageratting a bit...

anyway.

america.

let's talk about there.

"While the rate of child gun homicide in the U.S. is much higher than elsewhere -- as everyone acknowledges -- so is the rate of non-gun murder," he said. "Even if all the gun homicides were taken out of the equation, America would still have an infant-homicide rate more than 3.5 times as high as the other Western countries," a phenomenon he called "staggering."

a couple of years old, but I wonder if the rate has changed that much.

it's a dog eat dog world out there.

"America's obsession with guns and gun violence, Murray said, is understandable, but that obsession is "blinding us to another significant social problem," noting that in 1997 alone, 738 children under the age of 13 were murdered across the country (but only 133 by guns, according to the FBI).

""America is witnessing something barbaric happening to its young children," Murray said, noting that the figures might be unbelievable had they not been tallied by official U.S. government sources.

"He said the case of another child, 23-month-old Brianna Blackmond, "is more typical of the young children killed in this country." She died in January from a blow to the head given to her by her mother after being returned from a foster home."

care to comment on the healthy state of american society igloo?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15329

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by igloo

December 03, 2003, 8:40 a.m.

European Dishonor

Sharia on the Old Continent.

By Lorenzo Vidino & Erick Stakelbeck

Young women killed for dating. Limbs amputated for petty theft. Makeshift courts deciding the fates of members of local Muslim communities. The Western world has grown accustomed to hearing about the brutalities of Islamic law. However, these primitive practices are no longer limited to the remote tribal areas of Pakistan, the backward kingdom of Saudi Arabia, or oppressive, mullah-dominated Iran. Today, thanks in large part to a massive flow of immigration from Muslim countries, sharia law and medieval customs are becoming increasingly common in the heart of Christian Europe.

One of the most shocking examples of this new reality occurred in Sweden last year, when a Kurdish woman was killed by her father for having a romantic relationship with a Swedish man. Fadime Sahindal, 26, had taken her father and brother to sharia court in 1998, alleging that they had threatened to kill her for refusing to marry a Kurdish man the family had chosen for her. The two received only light sentences, however, and continued to abuse Fadime until, in 2002, her father shot and killed her. Disturbingly, the young woman was well aware of the fate that awaited her, as she said during the 1998 trial: "The only way for the family to regain its honor now that I have spread dishonor over it is to kill me."

Cases similar to Fadime's have been reported in France and Denmark. In England last September, a Kurdish father slit his daughter's throat because he disapproved of her Christian boyfriend and Westernized way of life. And, recently, in the port town of Taranto in southern Italy, a Muslim man who suspected that his wife had committed adultery decided — after consulting with members of his local Muslim community — that she should be stoned to death. The tragedy was only averted thanks to the intervention of local police.

Honor killings are not limited to Muslim countries and are, in fact, a common practice in several third-world cultures. Not all Muslims approve of them, and, according to some Muslim scholars, they do not reflect "real Islam." Nevertheless, the Koran itself permits men to beat their wives (Chapter 4, Verse 34), and the sharia-inspired penal codes of most Muslim countries give the benefit of the doubt to a man who kills his wife, daughter, or sister for engaging in adulterous or immoral behavior. This barbaric practice, which has not been seen in European countries in well over a century, is making an unsavory return within the Old Continent's Muslim communities.

The effects of the application of sharia in Europe are not limited to Muslim women. Last year, in the small Italian town of Eboli, hospital workers treated a young Algerian man whose fingers on his right hand had been chopped off. Under questioning, the man refused to reveal how he had sustained his injuries, but investigators have no doubt that he was the victim of punishment carried out according to Islamic law. Authorities in southern Italy, where many migrants from North Africa flock to work in agriculture, are becoming accustomed to such incidents. A Sicilian doctor revealed to the Italian magazine Panorama that victims of violent sharia justice go to the hospital only as a last resort, "when the bleeding is serious." He added that he had become knowledgeable about how amputations must be made according to Islamic tradition (the hand has to be chopped off piece by piece, without breaking any bones).

While these incidents may seem isolated, in actuality, several Muslim groups in Europe openly advocate the introduction of sharia in the West. Uneducated immigrants might use sharia simply because it is a system they are more familiar with, but militant Islamic organizations push for the introduction of Islamic law because they believe it is a superior system, the law revealed by God, and therefore the only acceptable law.

In Germany, Milli Gorus, a militant Turkish Islamic organization with more than 200,000 members, is accused by German intelligence of promoting Islamic law among Turkish immigrants in Europe. The August 2001 issue of Milli Gorus's official publication, Milli Gazete, featured an article stating that "A religious Muslim is also at the same time an advocate for sharia. The state, the media, and the courts have no rights to interfere. The allegiance of a Muslim to sharia cannot be condemned or questioned."

In Britain, the rapid spread of radical Islam in urban areas has led to major social exclusion and the development of sharia among England's Muslims. Al-Muhajiroun, a London-based fundamentalist group with sympathizers throughout Britain's burgeoning Muslim communities, has made the struggle against "man-made law" one of the key points of its agenda, declaring that its members do not recognize English law, but only Islamic law. (Nevertheless, al-Muhajiroun's leaders do not disdain collecting unemployment benefits generously granted by English "man-made law.")

In Italy, mainstream Muslim groups have asked for the introduction of Islamic marriages with no legal effects under Italian law, a de facto subtraction of the wedlock from the control of authorities. This request is aimed at creating a situation where two different legal systems regulate the lives of two different groups of citizens within the same state. In European legal history, it would represent a jump back to the Middle Ages, when different laws applied to different ethnicities. In practical terms, it would mean that Italian citizens of Muslim faith would be subtracted from the guarantees that the Italian legal system provides to its citizens. Therefore, while Christian Italian women would have the same rights as Italian men, Muslim Italian women would have very few rights. While a Christian woman would have the right to obtain a divorce simply by filing papers, a Muslim woman would have to go to great lengths to prove ill treatment at the hands of her husband.

Multiculturalists and leftist defenders of uncontrolled immigration, uneasy when confronted with episodes of the brutal application of sharia in Europe's Muslim ghettoes, are quick to predict that these incidents will disappear once Muslims are wealthier and better integrated into Western society through marriage to native Europeans. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that these predictions will come true in the foreseeable future. Muslims in Europe account for the vast majority of those living under the poverty line, and Muslim neighborhoods are the poorest areas in nearly every European city. Furthermore, statistics show that the majority of European Muslims are not marrying indigenous Europeans but other Muslims, either from their country of origin or from within local Muslim communities.

Politically correct European politicians, ever mindful not to offend their newly arrived Muslim brethren, have done little to aid in the assimilation process. As a result, immigrants who settle in Europe's Muslim communities are often greeted with the same sharia-inspired mayhem that they left behind in their countries of origin. From England to Holland to Greece, many European Muslims have managed to segregate themselves from society at large and maintain harsh traditions ill-suited to the West. As the number of unassimilated Muslims grows and Europe's elites continue to remain silent, the ultimate victim may turn out to be Western civilization itself.

— Erick Stakelbeck is head writer and Lorenzo Vidino is an attorney and terrorism analyst at the Investigative Project, a Washington, D.C.-based counterterrorism think tank.

I read this article and found it very interesting. It amazes me how backwards these people are, chopping off hands for theft? What amazes me is the disdain europeans have towards our capitol punishment but are hush-hush when a father kills his daughter over a marriage dispute in the name of Sharia? ?

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by marksimons

only 30% of europe is actively - go to church - christian, and most of them are probably exageratting a bit...

anyway.

america.

let's talk about there.

"While the rate of child gun homicide in the U.S. is much higher than elsewhere -- as everyone acknowledges -- so is the rate of non-gun murder," he said. "Even if all the gun homicides were taken out of the equation, America would still have an infant-homicide rate more than 3.5 times as high as the other Western countries," a phenomenon he called "staggering."

a couple of years old, but I wonder if the rate has changed that much.

it's a dog eat dog world out there.

"America's obsession with guns and gun violence, Murray said, is understandable, but that obsession is "blinding us to another significant social problem," noting that in 1997 alone, 738 children under the age of 13 were murdered across the country (but only 133 by guns, according to the FBI).

""America is witnessing something barbaric happening to its young children," Murray said, noting that the figures might be unbelievable had they not been tallied by official U.S. government sources.

"He said the case of another child, 23-month-old Brianna Blackmond, "is more typical of the young children killed in this country." She died in January from a blow to the head given to her by her mother after being returned from a foster home."

care to comment on the healthy state of american society igloo?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15329

What does this have to do with the topic?

[marksimons]

nothing, but I couldn't be fucked to read the article.

a society is not determined soley by the law...

just thought I'd point out that america can be as fucked up as some other countries.

btw, what is guantanamo if not an extension of sharia law?

just thought I'd point out that "harsh traditions ill-suited to the West" probably ain't.

you go down to the bible belt, tell me how many people would support chopping hands off theives...

probably a few...

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

only 30% of europe is actively - go to church - christian, and most of them are probably exageratting a bit...

anyway.

america.

let's talk about there.

"While the rate of child gun homicide in the U.S. is much higher than elsewhere -- as everyone acknowledges -- so is the rate of non-gun murder," he said. "Even if all the gun homicides were taken out of the equation, America would still have an infant-homicide rate more than 3.5 times as high as the other Western countries," a phenomenon he called "staggering."

a couple of years old, but I wonder if the rate has changed that much.

it's a dog eat dog world out there.

"America's obsession with guns and gun violence, Murray said, is understandable, but that obsession is "blinding us to another significant social problem," noting that in 1997 alone, 738 children under the age of 13 were murdered across the country (but only 133 by guns, according to the FBI).

""America is witnessing something barbaric happening to its young children," Murray said, noting that the figures might be unbelievable had they not been tallied by official U.S. government sources.

"He said the case of another child, 23-month-old Brianna Blackmond, "is more typical of the young children killed in this country." She died in January from a blow to the head given to her by her mother after being returned from a foster home."

care to comment on the healthy state of american society igloo?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15329

Awwwwwww........is something wrong?.....are you a little sensitive Mr. Blame America for Everything?......a little negativity about Europe and the best you can come up with is "yeah, but what about America"..

You are a tired, pathetic fool.....

[marksimons]

blame america for it's own rate of child homicide.

perish the thought.

sorry.

I was confused.

my apologies.

I thought this was a rant against muslims, not europeans...

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by marksimons

nothing, but I couldn't be fucked to read the article.

a society is not determined soley by the law...

just thought I'd point out that america can be as fucked up as some other countries.

btw, what is guantanamo if not an extension of sharia law?

Are you for real? Guatanamo bay is a holding cell for enemy combatants who took arms against our country...How in Gods name can you compare Gitmo Bay to muslims stoning wives accused of adultry????

[marksimons]

well.

were these enemy combattents mirandised?

are they having anything approaching a fair judical process?

any of them even been arrested?

you ever seen the term enemy combattents before?

you ever wonder why they're in cuba?

it's so they can torture them.

you think that's the american way?

seems closer to sharia than you may think...

I'm serious.

this operates outside the US judical system, outside the internation system of law, outside accepted norms of what is moral and just.

they can be tried, convicted, and executed in the one place, without us even knowing. the army is judge jury and executioner.

would you like to be tried there?

any why wasn't the 'american' taliban john walker lindh tried there?

CANBERRA, Australia - The U.S. military has tortured terrorist suspects held without charge at the Guantanamo Bay military prison, an Australian lawyer representing some of the suspects claimed Wednesday.

U.S.-based Richard Bourke, who has been working for almost two years on behalf of dozens of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, said American military officials were using old-fashioned torture techniques to force confessions out of prisoners.

The methods "clearly" fell under the definition of torture under international conventions, he told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio in an interview from the United States.

"They are engaging in good old-fashioned torture, as people would have understood it in the Dark Ages," he said.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/6958312.htm

[igloo]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Are you for real? Guatanamo bay is a holding cell for enemy combatants who took arms against our country...How in Gods name can you compare Gitmo Bay to muslims stoning wives accused of adultry????

This marksimons is a blowhard...he is just a little more creative with his rambling diatribes......but in the end, just another blowhard

[marksimons]

yes that's right igloo.

[officer barbrady]move along now children, nothing to see here, don't read his post raising legitimate questions about the treatment of people in guantanamo[/barbrady]

can you please read the american democracy thread. I'd like to see what you think on this subject igloo.