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mr mahs

I know a person..

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I had a argument with a family freind who....

-Who believes Isreal was responsible for 911..

-believes more then 3k people died on Sept 11th.

-believes more Americans are dying in Iraq then is being told..

-America shouldn't tell other countries, especially middle eastern what to do and that 911 was our fault...

-Bush is Hitler..

I obviously don't agree with him but I just wanted to know who here feels the same???

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Originally posted by mr mahs

I had a argument with a family freind who....

-Who believes Isreal was responsible for 911..

-believes more then 3k people died on Sept 11th.

-believes more Americans are dying in Iraq then is being told..

-America shouldn't tell other countries, especially middle eastern what to do and that 911 was our fault...

-Bush is Hitler..

I obviously don't agree with him but I just wanted to know who here feels the same???

I also believe more then 3k people died on sept 11th, many are unreported because body remains were never found. Further they can not be pronounced dead but are instead labeled missing.

I definitely think more Americans are dying in Iraq then being reported. Again the whole MIA concept. The military is even worse because there is also another term "unknown whereabouts" basically governments stamp these terms on papers to avoid making accurate death counts. Until the war is over we will not hear an actual estimate of the death count. Another reason for an inaccurate estimate may be the fact that it is an election year.

I strongly agree with the statement that America should not tell other countries what to do. It is a clear unwarranted outstretch of power that to some degree is reminiscent of imperialistic aggressions.

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Originally posted by starvingartist

I also believe more then 3k people died on sept 11th, many are unreported because body remains were never found. Further they can not be pronounced dead but are instead labeled missing.

I definitely think more Americans are dying in Iraq then being reported. Again the whole MIA concept. The military is even worse because there is also another term "unknown whereabouts" basically governments stamp these terms on papers to avoid making accurate death counts. Until the war is over we will not hear an actual estimate of the death count. Another reason for an inaccurate estimate may be the fact that it is an election year.

I strongly agree with the statement that America should not tell other countries what to do. It is a clear unwarranted outstretch of power that to some degree is reminiscent of imperialistic aggressions.

Then you know why other countries hate us. Good point.

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-Who believes Isreal was responsible for 911....

NAH...the US is..shot themselves in the foor practically

-believes more then 3k people died on Sept 11th...

YUPPPP

-believes more Americans are dying in Iraq then is being told....

ABSOLUTELY!!...

-America shouldn't tell other countries, especially middle eastern what to do and that 911 was our fault...

I AGREE

-Bush is Hitler.....

he's following the same route..came to power during a time of great paranoia about the future of the country..horrible economy...overzealous...etc etc

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Originally posted by starvingartist

I strongly agree with the statement that America should not tell other countries what to do. It is a clear unwarranted outstretch of power that to some degree is reminiscent of imperialistic aggressions.

Very nicely said.

I agree with you with most of what you said, but to add. As far as numbers go in general, they will never be correct.

9-11, There was many illegal aliens that were afraid to even step forward, for the fear that after they reported their loved one missing they would be deported.. = xx amount missing.

Also to mention, to put it crudely, it was too messy to be able to collectively come up with an accurate number of total dead.

As far as the U.S. meddling around the world. That specific argument will be around for ages, your right it really should be that way, then again building walls (either actual or metaphorical) should not be the way either.

Not saying you mean that... I know you dont. Im just saying that if everyone minded their own business (globally speaking) that too would have its downfalls, probably moreso then now.

You hopefully would agree that stepping in and getting involved with thwarting hitler's roll through Europe was appropriate.

Ok, that fact is probably mutually agreed upon. But who is right and who is wrong, you know.

There are so many things unperferct about this world, sometimes our government makes right decisions and sometimes they make bad ones.

Im just hopeing we all dont nuke each other thats all.

:hat: I say its time for a worldwide group hug... WHOse with me???

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Originally posted by mr mahs

I had a argument with a family freind who....

-Who believes Isreal was responsible for 911..

-believes more then 3k people died on Sept 11th.

-believes more Americans are dying in Iraq then is being told..

-America shouldn't tell other countries, especially middle eastern what to do and that 911 was our fault...

-Bush is Hitler..

I obviously don't agree with him but I just wanted to know who here feels the same???

Israel is a definetly a repressive and terrorist state but it's hard for me to believe that they are responsible for 9/11 even though they have benifited many ways on the "war on terror.

I think death tolls and casualities will always be manipulated by our government or any government when it can be bad or good for our image. Iraq death tolls would be under reported to mislead that we are doing well in Iraq or any conflict and casualties on 9/11 would be exagerated to get more of public support for war and conquest.

America has assumed a role of total superiority in the world by three factors. Milatary dominence, Economic dominence, and Political dominance. This creates new opportunities for more war and conflict throughout the world if we look at history and it's lessons. Obviously I don't want our country to be destroyed but there has got to be a better way of co-existance with other human beings with out killing ourselves and nature through war after war. We should use our position in the world to promote peace and prosperity for everyone on earth rather than to just us and our allies then maybe we'll be able to evolve and not lead to the eventual annihilation of our species through nuclear war, under the current path we've chosen.

Bush isn't Hitler... Bush is Bush. I'm somewhat of conisseur of military history and pariah's that shaped our world for what we know it to be now. Hitler definetly assumed a roll that we wanted to be filled in a biblical sense as the antichrist. So to draw a paralell with Bush many people in the world may believe that Bush assumes the same characteristics of Hitler at least on how Bush and Hitler both came to power. Honestly in my opinion I don't think Bush realizes the role he has taken in history and seriously believes that he does God's (in the christian sense) work but many in the world, especially in the middle east feel that he has assumed the "hitler role".

Sorry for the long rant and run on sentences...

Good questions Mr mahs... What the hell am I saying? :)

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Originally posted by jamiroguy1

We should use our position in the world to promote peace and prosperity for everyone on earth rather than to just us and our allies

the thing is though that we are alienating our long time european allies ... and that is what really bothers me about this whole thing ... ive talked with many over in europe and they are always suprised that i hate bush ... personally i think its best to hold onto our long time friends and not try to alienate them like bush is doing ... b'cuz i think that's what they want as well ...

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Originally posted by mr mahs

I had a argument with a family freind who....

-Who believes Isreal was responsible for 911..

Maybe not responsible but americas relationship with israel most likely played a role in the attacks.

-believes more then 3k people died on Sept 11th.

i think more than 2 thousand died, the numbers keep coming down but im sure more people died then the media said. all information about it came from the whitehouse so theirs no way to tell whats true. the white house issued statements that it was safee to breathe the smoke and debris around their but that was b.s. so i wouldnt be surprised if more people died than they say.

-believes more Americans are dying in Iraq then is being told..

thats a given. for political reasons they are trying to play down american deaths to make the war look successful.

-America shouldn't tell other countries, especially middle eastern what to do and that 911 was our fault...

washington said to beware foreign entanglements. he was right. 911 was partially our fault.

-Bush is Hitler..

bush has many similarities to hitler. being appointed instead of elected, going to war, silence of dissent, secret arrest, and the rest of the u.s. patriot act. very hitler like.

I obviously don't agree with him but I just wanted to know who here feels the same???

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You guys get out of control with your blind hate for this country. Disagree with policies that is your right to do but where do you come up with some of this shit. First whats the benefit of understating the casualties felt on 9/11? You argue that Bush is using 9/11 as a ploy to consolidate power for his own agenda so hence wouldnt he want 9/11 to have been more of a disaster than less with more American deaths involved which would prove a more imminent danger?? Next the whole Israel 9/11 thing is just rediculous show me one ounce of proof from a reliable source other than Al-jazeer or one of these conspiracy sites please as well as an explanation of how attacking the world trade center has changed anything for the situation of Israel? 3rd I really doubt more Americans are dying than being told although you might hope for more. Considering casualties are big news stories hence you know CNN, fox, and msn are working through more than just US govt. sources to uncover information on the battles which are being fought their but then again it is possible. Finally Bush = Hitler corrolation is insane. Despite a difference in policy opinions I really feel that Bush thinks hes doing the right thing for the citizens of our country and Iraq for that matter.

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Originally posted by seximofo2k

...Despite a difference in policy opinions I really feel that Bush thinks hes doing the right thing for the citizens of our country and Iraq for that matter...

I don't think anyone disputes that but do you think that Bush through his "doing the right thing" actually save lives in the world? I don't see it.

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it's on it's way...

-Who believes Isreal was responsible for 911..

nah, that's balls, the hijackers were mainly from saudi arabia, but it does seem a couple are erm still alive.

this is israel conspiracy gone a bit mad.

-believes more then 3k people died on Sept 11th

they did, but not in america in those terroist attacks.

could be that they did, but, nah, doesn't make sense, the time they had to get the number of people in the buildings out, see no reason why the death toll would be higher.

-believes more Americans are dying in Iraq then is being told..

yeah, this depends where you look, I've noticed diff figures being quoted here in the UK news, i.e. there are 400 + troops dead from combat totally, but sometimes they just say since the 'mission accomplished thing'.

however, this is possibly true, some 'accidents' are not, and they are doing a lot to put the dead and injured out of camera sight it seems.

it wouldn't be unheard of to manipulate these sorts of numbers.

I wouldn't say it's significantly higher, although I could be wrong.

-America shouldn't tell other countries, especially middle eastern what to do and that 911 was our fault...

hmm, not in all cases, but I'd argue before America practises what it preaches it's gonna have a hard time being listend to, but erm, there's always the threat of force.

the problem isn't telling them, talking is what we should be doing, it's american actions, in the middle east and other areas, that are the problem

9/11 is a touchy one, in terms of fault, however, to use CIA terminology, it is probably one of the most devestating cases of blowback around.

-Bush is Hitler..

well, nope, some of the tactics and even some of the policies could mirror hitler, but I'd argue a broader analogy between germany in that period and the current american admin and some actions.

but in terms of bush being backed by the sort of people, from a certain place in society, and being used for certain ends, rather like hitler.

I obviously don't agree with him but I just wanted to know who here feels the same???

heheh, he sounds a bit too paranoid, even for me, on the foriegn policy stuff he sounds right though.

could do with a bit more information about things though, and a defter sense of history with the hitler analogy.

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ding.. ding.. ding..

xpyrate,, jamiroguy1,ghhhhhost & normalnoises

:laugh: :laugh:

Congrats... you idiot's share the same political beliefs as my lush drunk Uncle Charlie who drinks min, a bottle of Wine at dinner and a shot of Cognac for breakfeast and Lunch for the last 40 years...

The guy is two drunken outbursts away from being demotted to the kiddie table at Christmas for his political babble. He is seriously retarded, like talking to a little kid....

:laugh: :laugh: Thats classic :laugh:

Normal your reply answers alot of Q's I had about you..

"I guess we outnumber you MrMahs"

Jerkoff:blown: :laugh: :laugh

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Originally posted by mr mahs

laugh: :laugh:

xpyrate,, jamiroguy1,ghhhhhost & normalnoises..

ding.. ding.. ding..

Congrats... you idiot's share the same political beliefs as my lush drunk Uncle Charlie who drinks atleast a bottle of Wine at dinner and a shot of Cognac for breakfeast and Lunch every day for the last 40 years...

The guy is two drunken outbursts away from being demotted to the kiddie table at Christmas for his political babble. He is seriously retarded, like talking to a little kid....

:laugh: :laugh: Thats classic :laugh:

Normal your reply answers alot of Q's I had about you..

"I guess we outnumber you MrMahs"

Jerkoff:blown: :laugh: :laugh:

Excellent work exposing the suckers (again)

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agreeing with drunk uncle charlie on these points isn't having the same political beliefs, similar interpretations and views on contemporary history morelike...

political views need another thread methinks...

I have to say, all the time I'm trying to hone my opinions and views on the current situation, and the more I read, the more confusing things get.

one of the main things I need to understand now is how americans today, our generation and our parents, view the post war history of the world, their understanding of things like, korea, vietnam and the reality of foriegn policy, and domestic policy during the cold war, which does most definetly cover reagan, and is important becauuuuse...

well.. condi for one is soviet specialist, and the american anti-communism stuff seems a lot like the war on terror. fear, panic, manipulation, lies, covert operations, agression and wrapping up what was basically controlling or influencing other countries supposedly democratic political processes in the name of 'saving' them from the 'chaos' of 'communism' and giving them 'democracy' which was often far from the case.

the current terroism thing is a lot more sophisticated, but still broadly boils down to the same thing.

america doing what it wants where it wants and not caring about the consiquences.

broadly speaking, this is the foriegn policy line that bush adopted.

it also seems to be the mantra for domestic policy.

the key thing in terms enlightening people as to what really happend during the cold war, i.e. were the russians really the threat they seemed to be? to what extent did various bits of the US gov. be they lobbyists, industry, secret service whatever, did they help manufacture the threat, or play up the threat of the 'red menace' to further their own ends.

the thing is this is more vital because I'm sure you'll find a large number of cold war 'vets' still in positions of power in the US govt, and those who had their upbringing during the cold war, are used to an enemy and may perhaps go to great lengths to have one.

this is my problem, the marxist view of war being an inherent feature of capitalist society seems correct. at least on a general level. however, wars may just be human nature, but, I'm not sooo sure.

we do have to deal with the nature of US politics today and how that impacts the US and abroad.

the problem is that again, we need to look back at the political process of the 70s and 80s - the repression of the 'hippies' for want of a better word, and we could go off into tangents about drugs, society and the place of represion as part of control... also the fact that bush sr was head of the CIA in the mid seventies seems to me rather important, given that on a number of ocassions that organisation can drive US foriegn policy at times, even without the knowledge of the government... the fact that under reagen we got some crazy shit happening, and political spectrum heading towards the center, well, what passes for the center in america these days.

it's all doing my head in, 'cause it's a bit hazy still, I need to fill in some gaps in my own knowledge, but, I dunno, interesting musing about these things...

british politics is a tad simpler, well, at least to me :P and I believe that things are not as bad here, as in america. this could be down to having many more national daily newspapers.

btw, not as bad refers to the domestic situation, the british foreign policy, or should I say english, is still fucked up and we need to check our arms sales - apparently we recently sold shit to India, and Pakistan...

where was I... fuck it...

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Originally posted by mr mahs

ding.. ding.. ding..

xpyrate,, jamiroguy1,ghhhhhost & normalnoises

:laugh: :laugh:

Congrats... you idiot's share the same political beliefs as my lush drunk Uncle Charlie who drinks min, a bottle of Wine at dinner and a shot of Cognac for breakfeast and Lunch for the last 40 years...

The guy is two drunken outbursts away from being demotted to the kiddie table at Christmas for his political babble. He is seriously retarded, like talking to a little kid....

:laugh: :laugh: Thats classic :laugh:

Normal your reply answers alot of Q's I had about you..

"I guess we outnumber you MrMahs"

Jerkoff:blown: :laugh: :laugh

its funny but some of the greatest minds of our time where druggies and alkies. ...isnt it fucking sad ur drunk lush uncle charlie proffesses a better understanding of the world thru his ehtanol-laden tirades than u do with all ur pseudo-intellect..

oh and the fact that u have igloo on ur side..big plus there...thats like the fat kid who eats boogers siding with the smelly kid who wears the same shirt to school everyday

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Originally posted by ghhhhhost

oh and the fact that u have igloo on ur side..big plus there...thats like the fat kid who eats boogers siding with the smelly kid who wears the same shirt to school everyday

:laugh: .....not bad I have to admit.....

But still does not hide the fact you are an imbecile...stick with your bullshit conspiracy theories, baseless thoughts devoid of reality, and endless cynical commentary that shows a lack of education and intelligence......

Once again, exposed as yet another moron destined for a life time membership in the Imbecile Brigade...congrats...

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Originally posted by mr mahs

ding.. ding.. ding..

xpyrate,, jamiroguy1,ghhhhhost & normalnoises

:laugh: :laugh:

Congrats... you idiot's share the same political beliefs as my lush drunk Uncle Charlie who drinks min, a bottle of Wine at dinner and a shot of Cognac for breakfeast and Lunch for the last 40 years...

The guy is two drunken outbursts away from being demotted to the kiddie table at Christmas for his political babble. He is seriously retarded, like talking to a little kid....

:laugh: :laugh: Thats classic :laugh:

Normal your reply answers alot of Q's I had about you..

"I guess we outnumber you MrMahs"

Jerkoff:blown: :laugh: :laugh

It's good you recognize the black sheeps in your family, mr. mahs Keep up the good work and maybe eventually you'll make assistant boot licker to igloo. :)

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Originally posted by ghhhhhost

the fact that i can look at an issue from both sides of the spectrum and come to my own decision makes me a hell of a lot more educated than a lot of people..

including u who is spoon fed his info by conservative media

But of course, those who are "conservative" never look at both sides, are only spoon fed right wing propoganda.......and those on the left are the symbols for balanced thought and open mindness, and of course, they could never be spoon fed leftist ideas.....

:laugh: :laugh:

Just shut up

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