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cintron

France considers banning islamic head scarves

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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=9&u=/ap/20031211/ap_on_re_eu/france_islamic_head_scarves

This would be interesting, seeing as France has long been a haven for the Arab community including Khomeini's exile, Supporting Iraq and serving as the voice of dissent against the United States...

it'd be interesting if they came under fire as a nation who was directly suppressing muslims.

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Originally posted by cintron

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=9&u=/ap/20031211/ap_on_re_eu/france_islamic_head_scarves

This would be interesting, seeing as France has long been a haven for the Arab community including Khomeini's exile, Supporting Iraq and serving as the voice of dissent against the United States...

it'd be interesting if they came under fire as a nation who was directly suppressing muslims.

It's only a matter of time before the Eifel tower gets dropped...

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Originally posted by pattbateman

i would like for everyone to post what the french are usefull for???wine, cheese, and arming our enimies do not count.

alot of good house music comes out of there...lol

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And grey goose!hehe

Seriously though, no good to YOU or your country does not mean they don't do shit for others. For example, they have troops in Ivory coast right now. Not even to mention historically speaking, they were one of the great powers to shape this world (and incidentally aided the US in its war for independence).

Its funny how people forget to look at history or forward into the future, and love to jump on the bandwagon most popular at the moment. A decade from now, if a president touts France as a "Great ally", I'm sure the same people would be praising France like they were the second coming.

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Originally posted by raver_mania

And grey goose!hehe

Seriously though, no good to YOU or your country does not mean they don't do shit for others. For example, they have troops in Ivory coast right now. Not even to mention historically speaking, they were one of the great powers to shape this world (and incidentally aided the US in its war for independence).

Its funny how people forget to look at history or forward into the future, and love to jump on the bandwagon most popular at the moment. A decade from now, if a president touts France as a "Great ally", I'm sure the same people would be praising France like they were the second coming.

Raver...

You have to stop defending France. Their "recent" behavior is deplorable, and not the actions of a friend. End of story.

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Originally posted by igloo

Raver...

You have to stop defending France. Their "recent" behavior is deplorable, and not the actions of a friend. End of story.

Igloo...

You have to stop defending America. Their "recent" behavior is deplorable, and not the actions of a friend.

You re-defined trolling nationalist fascist pig. End of story.

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(and incidentally aided the US in its war for independence).

Its funny how people forget to look at history or forward into the future, and love to jump on the bandwagon

ok lets recall wwii when the french fired not a single weapon did not even put up a defense. to our countries respect we at least fought our ass off but just could not win we needed their help, and obviously they had larger ambitions they did not just wanna help us out they too were enemies of the english.

we fought and died for their country and they didnt do shit and there is no way you can back them up on this one.

they owe us as does germany we backed germany till the late 80's when the great ronald reagan won the cold war for us thats 40 years of backing them they should of backed us on gerneral principal

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Originally posted by pattbateman

(and incidentally aided the US in its war for independence).

Its funny how people forget to look at history or forward into the future, and love to jump on the bandwagon

ok lets recall wwii when the french fired not a single weapon did not even put up a defense. to our countries respect we at least fought our ass off but just could not win we needed their help, and obviously they had larger ambitions they did not just wanna help us out they too were enemies of the english.

we fought and died for their country and they didnt do shit and there is no way you can back them up on this one.

they owe us as does germany we backed germany till the late 80's when the great ronald reagan won the cold war for us thats 40 years of backing them they should of backed us on gerneral principal

this post just proves how ignorant you are of the history of ww2 ... the french did put up alot of resistance and if you know anything about the american revolution you would know that with out the french we would never have been able to defeat the british ... so shut the fuck up with all the french bashing because its just a bunch of useless hate mongering that doesn't deserve any kind of attention

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to our countries respect we at least fought our ass off but just could not win we needed their help, and obviously they had larger ambitions they did not just wanna help us out they too were enemies of the english

sorry i will be more specific next time, i was refering to the revolution when i made that comment.

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i could give a fuck if anybody thinks we owe the french just becuase they helped us win the revolution.

that was hundreds of years ago. They saved our asses so we could have a country, we returned the favor in WWII so they could keep their country.

the tables are now even, but apparently that's not enough for France. I've NEVER liked the french. They are NOT our friends, no matter how much people want to believe they are.

They are opportunists. They will back us as long as it benefits them but they will gladly yank the rug out from under us as long as it means they can get ahead.

You want to talk about a friend, talk about Britain. That's a country that has been through the fire with us throughout MULTIPLE wars; who has had our back in the political arena; a country that has stood by to defend us when others have withdrawn their support and criticized us.

France jumped ship the first second they thought they found higher ground. To me, it's nothing but a nation of elitist cowards and backstabbing opportunists. That may sound harsh, but if a friend did to me what they did [and continue to do] to this country, i'd have every right to be angry.

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Originally posted by cintron

i could give a fuck if anybody thinks we owe the french just becuase they helped us win the revolution.

that was hundreds of years ago. They saved our asses so we could have a country, we returned the favor in WWII so they could keep their country.

the tables are now even, but apparently that's not enough for France. I've NEVER liked the french. They are NOT our friends, no matter how much people want to believe they are.

They are opportunists. They will back us as long as it benefits them but they will gladly yank the rug out from under us as long as it means they can get ahead.

You want to talk about a friend, talk about Britain. That's a country that has been through the fire with us throughout MULTIPLE wars; who has had our back in the political arena; a country that has stood by to defend us when others have withdrawn their support and criticized us.

France jumped ship the first second they thought they found higher ground. To me, it's nothing but a nation of elitist cowards and backstabbing opportunists. That may sound harsh, but if a friend did to me what they did [and continue to do] to this country, i'd have every right to be angry.

:aright:

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Originally posted by cintron

You want to talk about a friend, talk about Britain. That's a country that has been through the fire with us throughout MULTIPLE wars; who has had our back in the political arena; a country that has stood by to defend us when others have withdrawn their support and criticized us.

Well, guess what Blair's going to get for that come next election term. Its not looking that great for him.

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Originally posted by raver_mania

Well, guess what Blair's going to get for that come next election term. Its not looking that great for him.

Maybe so...but sometimes that is the price you pay for leadership instead of appeasement, doing what is right instead of doing what may be popular, facilitating change that may be uncomfortable but necessary, and not shrinking from making the hard choices......

History will eventually shine a positive light on Blair, and that and its impact on the world will be a greater reward than just a re-election

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Originally posted by raver_mania

Well, guess what Blair's going to get for that come next election term. Its not looking that great for him.

yeah - well like Igloo said, the man is strong-willed.

Britain could easily have hidden in the background and let us do this one all alone, but i have to give him credit. Unlike bush, Blair has to go in front of parliament and debate his position every day. That takes balls - especially given the fact that even after all this time he has managed to overcome the resistance, the threats and the heavy opposition, yet still remain the PM and still remain in control.

i hope he does get re-elected, but if he does not, then i hope whoever replaces him is as of strong a character as blair. It'd be a shame to see Blair replaced with a yes-man weakling just because people are scared to have a real man leading and just want a puppet they can control

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blair has balls.

he lied to parliament.

he is fucked.

"It'd be a shame to see Blair replaced with a yes-man weakling just because people are scared to have a real man leading and just want a puppet they can control"

you mean with a bush figure?

personally I think blair was blackmailed into the war. or pressured, or fuck, perhaps he believes in the divinity of the mission given by god...

blair made descisions which caused the largest protests in london. ever.

a large number of people see him as being in the pocket of George W. and that's not great, considering 300,000 people turned out in london, on a weekday, largest weekday protest ever in england btw, to demonstrate against him.

he faces major problems with regards to policies towards students, his health reforms, and the fact that he seems now to be a bit like thatcher-lite.

He has no balls when it comes to drug legislation or really looking outside the box.

oh, and he has continued to sell weapons to developing countries and countries with very dubious human rights records.

hell. we're even selling weapons to india AND pakistan.

fook dat.

you guys can have blair, you lap him up, your senators love him, the people love him, take him, seriously, he's a lying opportunist wanker.

and the economy is being built on ever increasing debt, which is, well, probably not great long term.

safe to say, there's more than a few of us who want to try and redraw the lines of british politics.

with regards to the tories, and setting the country up with a solid 'left' leanign government, to represent the views of the majority of the country.

the second place party right now is the conservatives, and they're shit, they could be driven into third place, blairs majority could be slashed, he may face an internal revolt after the election, he may be bumped out of office like thatcher.

I hope he stays in office for the election, and we have a targetted campaign to get him out of office.

he talks the talk, but does not walk the walk.

he's a leader who doesn't care who, or what he leads. just to lead.

btw the investigation into that scientist who killed himself comes out soon, and that could be a few more nails in TB's Prime Ministerial coffin.

oh, and with regards to the revolution, it is still relevent.

sort of.

see.

i believe we have a clear cut case of blowback, of an agressive foriegn policy coming back to bite us in the ass.

regardez:

the second ammendment talking about he 'right to bear arms' in a militia. that wouldn't have happend if britian had persued a more restrained policy towards the american colonies. and man... heheh.

there's a few other what if scenarios as well...

history is absolutely vital to whoever said it's hundreds of years ago. it's not that long ago, it was 1789 was it not? that's not that long ago. the late eigtheenth century runs deep into the middle of the ninteenth, and then around the latter half of the second half of the 19thC we start building up the things which lead to 1914, and lay the groundwork for 1918 - that other seminal revolution, the russian, and then in 45 we find that most of the 20th century has been laid by theories of the ninteenth, which were born as a result of how the world was previously, and we're still affected by the results.

hell, we've still not even adressed the issues.

also, the revolution is quite relevent, because it might be pertinent to look back at the empire building, military enforced, unfair, unrepresentative, undemocratic regime that america struggled free from, and wonder seriously, what have we become.

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Originally posted by igloo

Maybe so...but sometimes that is the price you pay for leadership instead of appeasement, doing what is right instead of doing what may be popular, facilitating change that may be uncomfortable but necessary, and not shrinking from making the hard choices......

History will eventually shine a positive light on Blair, and that and its impact on the world will be a greater reward than just a re-election

But wait a second - what happened to serving the will of the people? What you say goes against the very essence of democracy.

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yeah, you'd have thought that.

he had to get the support of the tories for his war.

I'm proud to be a member of the liberal democrats - who'se leader spoke, lamely, against the war - and who'se MPs did not vote for it.

descisions that are controversial at best, against the will of the people at worst, are always 'tough choices' tough on hard choices, and tough on the causes of hard choices... heheh... erm.

yeah.

fuck it, it's an elected dictatorship anyway, if he wanted to blair could make it illegal to smoke a cigarette on the streets of paris, yesteday, provided he got a majority in the commons and lords, which given the whip system, careerists and dangling carrots and wielding sticks, well, it makes the notion of representative democracy a bit of a joke.

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