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bigpoppanils

Nissan is on crack

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ok so i'm looking at the specs of the new Altima (its getting facelfted next year)

anyways, i'm looking at the option packages, and I see that antilock brakes & side airbags are not standard (as usual)

however, instead of being a standalone option as they are now ($800 for a package), they are now only available as part of a $5500 option package.

what the fuck is Nissan doing?

:cuss:

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Originally posted by joeg

lol they still make cars without ABS???? wtf??? :confused:

ABS is usually only standard on cars & trucks over $30k. VW and the Accord are a few exceptions.

you would be suprised how many people are driving around new cars without ABS these days.

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ABS is a crock of shit. More often than not it increases your stopping distances.

It's fine in snow, but most people buy it because they think that without it they'll die a horrible fiery death.

they're probably right, since they dont know how to control their car anyways, and have to rely on a microchip to supplement the skill they refuse to learn.

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Originally posted by cintron

ABS is a crock of shit. More often than not it increases your stopping distances.

1. then why does having ABS lower insurance rates?

2. Most automotive guides will dispute that. I have yet to see any road test where cars with ABS perform worse in braking than cars with just power brakes.

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Originally posted by bigpoppanils

1. then why does having ABS lower insurance rates?

2. Most automotive guides will dispute that. I have yet to see any road test where cars with ABS perform worse in braking than cars with just power brakes.

same reason that airbags lower insurance rates:

to protect the stupid people.

you don't need an airbag to be okay in a head on crash. It's primarily there as a liability device, becuase someone who is stupid enough to NOT buckle up can still sue the automaker for designing an unsafe car if they're injured in a crash. Hence the airbag.

ABS is the same way. It's designed to protect the stupid people who dont want to control their own car, so they'd rather rely on a computer microchip instead of their own ability to drive, in order to brake safely.

This is why SUV Mom feels she can weave in and out of traffic like an asshole, becuase she thinks that "well, the car has ABS and an airbag, so a magical fairy will be riding along with me to prevent any accidents."

And the insurance companies buy that becuase they see more "safety devices" on board, somehow thinking that these devices are going to prevent an accident.

SCC and grassroots motorsports have done numerous tests with ABS systems enabled and disabled. THe result is the same. Threshold braking is threshold braking. An ABS system will not increase the limit of the tire's grip. It will simply attempt to keep the tire from sliding. A person who is mildly competent at cars can do the same thing with threshold braking. All you have to do is brake without locking up the tires. In those tests, non-abs cars have actually stopped SHORTER than ABS cars by a few feet.

The only reason ABS is there is because Joe Average is probably going to be on his cellphone drinking a coffee, weaving in and out of traffic like a dick... when suddenly he has to slam on his brakes becuase the traffic ahead of him suddenly has come to a stop and he wasn't paying attention. And even then - *CRACK*!

He'll probably hit them anyway, becuase ABS isn't going to improve the contact patch of the tire in the least bit, and he was too busy squawking on the phone or drinking his drink to pay attention to what he should be doing in the first place:

Driving.

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Originally posted by joeg

in DRY weather, yes... but in rain/snow, ABS has value...

especially in the wet.

as for the whole "airbags not necessary" argument, my family would disagree.

My cousin got in an accident while riding in the front passenger seat of a car that only had a drivers side airbag. It was a head-on collision. His seat broke loose from the frame, and he went head first through the windshield.

if the car had a passnger side airbag, he would have remained inside the car and thus would have had less injuries.

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Originally posted by joeg

in DRY weather, yes... but in rain/snow, ABS has value...

Bah. Only idiots drive when it's crappy out and nobody cares what happens to beaters anyway.

As for the seat braking loose from the frame - dude i doubt an airbag would have done much to prevent anything there. When you have a person + a heavy car seat being hurled at a thin bag filled with gas that's exploding in the opposite direction, that's like taking the speed at which you're crashing and multiplying it.

It's bad that he went out the windshield, but if he'd been in the car and had hit an airbag face first, the impact could have snapped his neck. What kind of car was this anyway that had a seat fly off the frame rail!?

i''ve been in a 45 mph head on collision in an 88 Conquest, where I was the passenger. No airbag there, but I had my seatbelt on... and I was perfectly fine. A little sore from the belt, but otherwise fine. Shit, i'm definitely checking my seat bolts this afternoon.

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Guest saleen351

lol, there are only a few cars with a few drivers capable of out stopping the ABS.... Yes in some cars they yank out the fuse for the ABS and get better results, but thats a design flaw in either the software or design of the physicaly abs system.

In normal driving and even street racing, ABS is your best friend, to say it's a piece of shit, is just plain dumb...

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Originally posted by saleen351

In normal driving and even street racing, ABS is your best friend, to say it's a piece of shit, is just plain dumb...

lol. how the fuck would YOU know?

I've disabled my ABS becuase it's a piece of shit system and i don't like something controlling my car for me. But then again i'm a die-hard purist.

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Guest saleen351
Originally posted by cintron

lol. how the fuck would YOU know?

I've disabled my ABS becuase it's a piece of shit system and i don't like something controlling my car for me. But then again i'm a die-hard purist.

dude, i've been street racing since I was 17 when ABS was a luxury option... ABS has saved my ass in the snow a few times, as for dry pavement, it's only helped me when i hit some sand that is left over from the winter. you are not a purist, you are an idiot. We don't need wanna be jeff gordons running around on the street with no abs when the car was designed to have abs..

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Originally posted by saleen351

you are not a purist, you are an idiot.

dude, i've been street racing since I was 17

We don't need wanna be jeff gordons running around on the street

you're making no sense man.

I don't streetrace. Maybe take your own advice? [and try watching a motorsport that doesnt focus on crashing into shit]

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Guest saleen351
Originally posted by cintron

you're making no sense man.

I don't streetrace. Maybe take your own advice? [and try watching a motorsport that doesnt focus on crashing into shit]

my buddy runs in the GT class on speedvision, i was even in his pit crew... i don't watch nascar as much, but come on dude, saying abs is shit, is just plain nuts..

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Well, my old car a 98 Ford ZX2 had ABS and my current one doesn't. Personally, I'm with Cintron on this one.

All ABS does is pump your brakes for you and the first couple times I stopped hard with it, it scared the shit out of me.

And all the tests I've seen, the cars without ABS stop an average of 10 feet shorter. That's a car length.

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Originally posted by DarrellG

Well, my old car a 98 Ford ZX2 had ABS and my current one doesn't. Personally, I'm with Cintron on this one.

All ABS does is pump your brakes for you and the first couple times I stopped hard with it, it scared the shit out of me.

And all the tests I've seen, the cars without ABS stop an average of 10 feet shorter. That's a car length.

in the snow??? :confused:

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Originally posted by cintron

yes, even in the snow.

i've slid further with ABS than with it disabled. A lot of ABS systems really suck.

yeah, i guess it depends on the car and the situation...

but i would say that a properly designed ABS system would be usefull in crappy weather...

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I'm for advanced ABS, against 80s ABS. The best was rear only ABS, that was the shiznit...

I do find ABS annoying, haven't tried pulling the plug yet. On every car i've drive it kicks in WAY too early... ie: no tire squeal. More often than not i'm driving down my driveway normally on the brakes, run over a little twig, pebble or bump and the pedal starts to modulate. BLAH. No need for that.

In one instance in a Subaru Outback the car took an INSANEly long distance to stop in the snow from 30mph. At least 400 feet.

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