We Are Finishing the War

[mr mahs]

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200403260836.asp

We Are Finishing the War

Anatomy of our struggle against the Islamicists.

Across the globe we watch the terrible drama play out. Car and suicide bombings in Baghdad are aimed at American aid givers, U.S. peacekeepers, Iraqi civilians, and provisional government workers. Spanish civilians are indiscriminately murdered — as are Turks, Moroccans, Saudis, and Afghans.

President Musharraf is targeted by assassins. Synagogues are blown apart. Suicide murderers try to reach a chemical dump in Ashdod in hopes of gassing Jews to the pleasure of much of the Arab world and the indifference of Europe. Indeed, Palestinian murderers apologize for gunning down an Arab jogger in Jerusalem — for the colossal mistake of thinking that he was Jewish. The world yawns, but is then outraged because Israelis take out a mass-murderer during a time of war. We are witnessing a grand struggle between those who create things and those who can only destroy them, between those who are confident and build civilizations and those who have failed and turned vicious.

Daniel Pearl is executed on television. The U.N. is singled out as a target for mass murder in Iraq, as are synagogues in Istanbul. Again, we in the West are supposed to tremble at the devilishness of the jihadists or turn on each other in fear. 'We worship death, you cling to life,' they warn us. Al Qaeda's message to Europe — which they hate even more than the United States, because it is not only wealthy but soft and weak as well — is that of every mythical monster who promises his trembling prey that with proper flattery he can be gobbled down last.

We should remember that this war of barbarism against civilization is global and connected. Poor Mr. Villepin may ignore that his country's appeasement and profit-making in Iraq were helpful to Saddam Hussein's state-sponsored terrorism and he may believe that things are worse in Baghdad now. But he will learn that past French double-dealing, flamboyant anti-Americanism, and obsequiousness to Iranian theocrats will win him no reprieve from these purveyors of a new Dark Age. The extremists will be just as likely to murder French children over banning headscarves as they would have had three Gallic divisions fought in Iraq.

The Spanish may think that bin Laden's past fury over the Reconquista and the Crusades was silly while the present anger over Spaniards in Iraq is logical. But they too will soon learn that appeasement wins them temporary quiet from enemies and general disappointment from friends — not a permanent pardon from terrorist attacks. If they believe al Qaeda is a rational interlocutor, they should assume that the U.S. withdrawal from Saudi Arabia and cessation of the embargo of Iraq — replaced by massive American aid — have met bin Laden's original 1998 demands and that peace is at hand.

What is our enemies' ultimate agenda? Judge them by what they say and then do: Any who champion women are targeted. Those who are Jews should die. Expressing tolerance for other religions is a capital crime. Secular law and government are a betrayal. Apostasy from Islam justifies murder. Hypocrisy does not matter — whether that means using a hated Western computer or flocking to a despised Western capital. This craziness is actually an agenda of sorts, proclaiming to the wretched, "Purge yourself of the modern West (sort of) and fool yourself into thinking that you will have power, honor, and wealth as never before."

We laugh about such a formerly pampered playboy lunatic and his puerile calls for a return of an 11th-century caliphate, replete with a paradise of 72 virgins and hack medieval poeticisms like "O this, O that," "God willing," and "infidel" in all his court communiqués. But such fantasies out of the Arabian Nights are perhaps not so fantastic. In al Qaeda's utopia a loose confederation of Islamic theocracies — on the model of the Taliban or Iran's mullocracy — will sweep the Middle East, liquidating Westerners and those Muslims tainted by Westernization. Oil will not only enrich a theocratic elite — note the pampered privileges of Taliban insiders and the spoiled progeny of Iranian clerics — but can be manipulated to gouge a petroleum-hungry West while paying for plentiful weaponry from cynical Western arms dealers.

When terrorists are rounded up now in Spain or the United States or deported to Britain, they deny rather than brag of their erstwhile Afghan training, and plead that they are either innocent or were misled. None throw down the gauntlet and bore us with the old long harangues — a la Richard Reed — about the imminent death of the West.

While Ted Kennedy and John Kerry pontificate about losing the war on terror, al Qaeda is nearly finished. What we have been seeing lately are its tentacles flapping about in search of prey, after the head has been smashed — still for a time lethal, but without lasting strength. We should remember that perhaps the bloodiest month for Americans in the European theater of World War II was not during 1943 and 1944 amid the invasions of North Africa, Sicily, Italy, or Normandy, but rather in January 1945, a mere five months before the close of the war, when GIs fought back the last bitter German offensive.

Likewise a mere four months before the surrender of Japan the United States began the most bloody campaign of the entire war at Okinawa, where almost 50,000 Americans were killed, wounded, or missing. The fighting, which killed the commanding generals of both sides, did not end until a mere two months before the surrender. What later is seen rightly to be last gasps at the time often appear as irrefutable proof of inexhaustible strength and endless war to come.

Instead, a much better measure than the week's explosions is a systematic examination of al Qaeda's position, then and now.

The terrorists have been routed from their sanctuary of Afghanistan and cannot come back as long as the United States and its allies are determined to stay the course. They are being slowly drawn and quartered inside Pakistan, where the Musharraf government has finally agreed to begin to close down its frontier border sanctuary. Terrorists' ties with rogue regimes like Saddam Hussein's and Khaddafi's Libya are now cut. Saudi, Syrian, and Iranian subsidies and sanctuaries of old are now under scrutiny. Reformists in all of those countries are organizing.

The United States has imposed a global crackdown on terrorist funding, and muscled suspect regimes like Yemen and Jordan into deporting or jailing jihadists and their sympathizers. Pakistan and India are talking, which is bad news for the fundamentalists in Kashmir and the badlands along the Afghan border. The Palestinian killers have brought only misery to their people and now a wall — ensuring that their constituents will soon have a chance to enjoy from Mr. Arafat the same good government that the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, and the Iranian clerics extended to their similarly isolated people.

But perhaps the worst development for the fundamentalists has been a radical change of attitude in the United States. No longer do we say to autocrats "pump oil, and keep out communists — and do what you want with your own people."

Yet we can do far more in this time of war that is also a military, political, ideological, and economic struggle. We must explain to the world that no nation has done more to save Muslims — whether in Afghanistan, Kuwait, Somalia, Kosovo, Bosnia, and Iraq. In the last quarter-century we have given billions in aid to Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinians. We are the most tolerant of Western countries to Muslim and Arab immigrants. In Iraq now, we — not Arab intellectuals, not "moderate" Arab governments, and not the Europeans — are bringing consensual government and billions more in aid to the Arab Middle East.

The problem is not "getting the message out," but having the intellectual courage to tell the truth and not to be browbeaten by faux intellectuals who talk monotonously of mythical pipelines and Zionist aggression. The fact is, beneath the hype, Iraqis will soon appreciate American help and idealism far more than French perfidy. It is never wrong to be on the side of freedom — never.

Nor do we have anything to apologize about to the Europeans. We liberated the continent, sent it billions in aid, protected it from Soviet Communism, supported the EU and German reunification, created NATO in part to keep internal peace, intervened in Kosovo to stop more European genocide, and have well over 100,000 troops there still to protect it sixty years after it nearly destroyed itself. We no longer expect gratitude or even memory of the past, but we do expect maturity and not the patronizing lectures from a Spanish or French foreign minister who should know better — given the respective histories of their countries and our own during the last century.

So, yes, they are our allies. And yes, we must be polite and considerate as we all work together to hunt down terrorists. And yes, we are often undiplomatic when there is no need to be given our stature. But there is a reason for Europeans' anger and it transcends George Bush — having everything to do with the fear that America is a stubborn, powerful, moral antithesis to their own global socialist utopia. What the Spanish did recently was only an affirmation of what France has done with Saddam for twenty years.

Finally, for the duration, to sustain both our military power and foreign largess, we also must look to ourselves inasmuch as we are running vast trade deficits, along with unsustainable budget shortfalls, and are stuck in an entitlement craze where government payouts bring not gratitude but shrill demands for even more subsidies. Our borders are porous and yet we are paralyzed and afraid to enforce our own laws — even as 12 million illegal aliens inside the United States cannot be identified or even be referred to as illegal.

Our educational system is increasingly therapeutic and turning out too many poorly educated youth who have not inherited the tradition of American expertise and competence and cannot in the immediate future ensure our privileged position as the world's most affluent consumer society. The Chinese, Europeans, South Koreans, and Japanese are all lending us money for consumption. But they do so only in the trust that our legal system, stability, and competence will continue to justify such debts, which can only be paid back on the expectation that America can sustain its global civilizing role and lead the world in technological innovation and capital formation.

So to press on, we must begin to look at the struggle across the spectrum in this new multifaceted war: bring consensual government to the Middle East; destroy the last al Qaeda holdouts; put Syria and Iran on notice to cease their support for terrorists; reexamine the location and purpose of all our bases; encourage candor and a new honesty with our allies; and seek to bring a new discipline to our own government and citizenry.

We have the chance not merely to win this war and do the world a great deal of good, but also to aspire ourselves to be a stronger and better people after it. We at least owe the dead of September 11 that much.

[igloo]

OUTSTANDING!!!!

[normalnoises]

LIE!!

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by normalnoises

LIE!!

NAME ONE..

[sobeton]

Delusional!

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sobeton

Delusional!

How so? All you tree huggers can say is "lie" and "delusional" with out adding to the debate. Name one part thats delusional and back up your opinion with facts, if you can of course>>>>

[igloo]

Originally posted by mr mahs

How so? All you tree huggers can say is "lie" and "delusional" with out adding to the debate. Name one part thats delusional and back up your opinion with facts, if you can of course>>>>

[sobeton]

Originally posted by mr mahs

How so? All you tree huggers can say is "lie" and "delusional" with out adding to the debate. Name one part thats delusional and back up your opinion with facts, if you can of course>>>>

the facts have been presented, on several fronts before. I'm sure you do read the news. how on earth can you finish a war, you haven't even begun to understand. I'm a little hard pressed to come up with a recent war; we can say we are close to finishing. perhaps you can enlighten me. Otherwise "delusional" would seem quite appropriate, when applied to that gibberish of an article you posted.

Iraq is on the verge of civil war, and our troops are sitting targets.

Bin Laden can strike at will.

We Have Won Nothing!

[siceone]

Originally posted by sobeton

the facts have been presented, on several fronts before. I'm sure you do read the news. how on earth can you finish a war, you haven't even begun to understand. I'm a little hard pressed to come up with a recent war; we can say we are close to finishing. perhaps you can enlighten me. Otherwise "delusional" would seem quite appropriate, when applied to that gibberish of an article you posted.

Iraq is on the verge of civil war, and our troops are sitting targets.

Bin Laden can strike at will.

We Have Won Nothing!

you are a moron plain and simple Iraq is no where near civil war and out side the sunni triangle I dare you to find systemic violence.

How do you know we don't understand this war anyway who the fuck made you an expert, why aren't you on the transitional authourity then where are your credentials? you think you know shit cause you read the liberal media and want the US to fail go fuck your self. you're the one who is delusional you ask us to back up facts with more facts? how bout you dispute our facts with facts!! how bout that. you're just another moronic talking head.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sobeton

the facts have been presented, on several fronts before. I'm sure you do read the news. how on earth can you finish a war, you haven't even begun to understand. I'm a little hard pressed to come up with a recent war; we can say we are close to finishing. perhaps you can enlighten me. Otherwise "delusional" would seem quite appropriate, when applied to that gibberish of an article you posted.

Iraq is on the verge of civil war, and our troops are sitting targets.

Bin Laden can strike at will.

We Have Won Nothing!

Simpleton: Read again and maybe you'll understand

While Ted Kennedy and John Kerry pontificate about losing the war on terror, al Qaeda is nearly finished. What we have been seeing lately are its tentacles flapping about in search of prey, after the head has been smashed — still for a time lethal, but without lasting strength. We should remember that perhaps the bloodiest month for Americans in the European theater of World War II was not during 1943 and 1944 amid the invasions of North Africa, Sicily, Italy, or Normandy, but rather in January 1945, a mere five months before the close of the war, when GIs fought back the last bitter German offensive

[sobeton]

Originally posted by siceone

you are a moron plain and simple Iraq is no where near civil war and out side the sunni triangle I dare you to find systemic violence.

How do you know we don't understand this war anyway who the fuck made you an expert, why aren't you on the transitional authourity then where are your credentials? you think you know shit cause you read the liberal media and want the US to fail go fuck your self. you're the one who is delusional you ask us to back up facts with more facts? how bout you dispute our facts with facts!! how bout that. you're just another moronic talking head.

LOL how sad!

Iraqi people killing their own people; is civil war. Is there a new name for this type of fighting, perhaps I missed it??. I’m no expert on war, and obviously neither is the Bush administration. However I do have an opinion on the same, so deal with it. Naturally any rationale thinking individual ,would not favor a defeat in the war on terrorism. So don’t make assumptions, to justify your own narrow mindedness. I presented facts read my previous post. Spin the wheel in whatever direction you care to. The bottom line is we are not winning or Finishing the War, and it’s really as simple as that.

thanks for playing..

[sobeton]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Simpleton: Read again and maybe you'll understand

While Ted Kennedy and John Kerry pontificate about losing the war on terror, al Qaeda is nearly finished. What we have been seeing lately are its tentacles flapping about in search of prey, after the head has been smashed — still for a time lethal, but without lasting strength. We should remember that perhaps the bloodiest month for Americans in the European theater of World War II was not during 1943 and 1944 amid the invasions of North Africa, Sicily, Italy, or Normandy, but rather in January 1945, a mere five months before the close of the war, when GIs fought back the last bitter German offensive

okay will do!

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by sobeton

LOL how sad!

Iraqi people killing their own people; is civil war. Is there a new name for this type of fighting, perhaps I missed it??. I’m no expert on war, and obviously neither is the Bush administration. However I do have an opinion on the same, so deal with it. Naturally any rationale thinking individual ,would not favor a defeat in the war on terrorism. So don’t make assumptions, to justify your own narrow mindedness. I presented facts read my previous post. Spin the wheel in whatever direction you care to. The bottom line is we are not winning or Finishing the War, and it’s really as simple as that.

thanks for playing..

EHHHHH WRONG AGAIN!

Civil War? Were not winning ? Please read and learn....

This is a doc found in an Iraqi raid, it's a letter from the foreign terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who is leading the insurgeny in Iraq. AlQeada realizes how important forming democracy in the ME really is and is doing everything in their pwer to derail it.. Democracy is the single most important weapon in the war on terror.

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/zarkawi200402121818.asp

Zarkawi’s Cry

A terrorist's words of despair.

An NRO Primary Document

EDITOR'S NOTE: Earlier this week, Coalition officials discovered a letter believed to have been written by terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to al Qaeda operatives (see Michael Ledeen here). Below is the text of the letter, as translated and distributed by the Coalition Provisional Authority.

1. The foreign Mujahidin: Their numbers continue to be small, compared to the large nature of the expected battle. We know that there are enough good groups and jihad is continuing, despite the negative rumors. What is preventing us from making a general call to arms is the fact that the country of Iraq has no mountains in which to seek refuge, or forest in which to hide. Our presence is apparent and our movement is out in the open. Eyes are everywhere. The enemy is before us and the sea is behind us. Many Iraqis would honor you as a guest and give you refuge, for you are a Muslim brother; however, they will not allow you to make their homes a base for operations or a safe house. People who will allow you to do such things are very rare, rarer than red sulfur. Therefore, it has been extremely difficult to lodge and keep safe a number of brothers, and also train new recruits. Praised be to Allah, however, with relentless effort and searching we have acquired some places and their numbers are increasing, to become base points for the brothers who will spark war and bring the people of this country into a real battle with god's will.

2. The present and future: there is no doubt that American losses were significant because they are spread thin amongst the people and because it is easy to get weapons. This is a fact that makes them easy targets, attractive for the believers. America, however, has no intention of leaving, no matter how many wounded nor how bloody it becomes. It is looking to a near future, when it will remain safe in its bases, while handing over control of Iraq to a bastard government with an army and police force that will bring back the time of (saddam) Husayn and his cohorts. (headquarters comment: it is not clear to whom "it" is referring, but it appears to mean the united states.) There is no doubt that our field of movement is shrinking and the grip around the throat of the Mujahidin has begun to tighten. With the spread of the army and police, our future is becoming frightening.

3. So where are we? Despite few supporters, lack of friends, and tough times, god has blessed us with victories against the enemy. We were involved in all the martyrdom operations — in terms of overseeing, preparing, and planning — that took place in this country except for the operations that took place in the north. Praised be to Allah, i have completed 25 of these operations, some of them against the Shi'a and their leaders, the Americans and their military, the police, the military, and the coalition forces. There will be more in the future, god willing. We did not want to publicly claim these operations until we become more powerful and were ready for the consequences. We need to show up strong and avoid getting hurt, now that we have made great strides and taken important steps forward. As we get closer to the decisive moment, we feel that our entity is spreading within the security void existing in Iraq, something that will allow us to secure bases on the ground, these bases that will be the jump start of a serious revival, god willing.

4. Plan of action: after much inquiry and discussion, we have narrowed our enemy to four groups:

A. Americans as you know, these are the biggest cowards that god has created and the easiest target. And we ask god to allow us to kill, and detain them, so that we can exchange them with our arrested shaykhs and brothers.

B. Kurds these are a pain and a thorn, and it is not time yet to deal with them. They are last on our list, even though we are trying to get to some of their leaders. God willing.

C. The Iraqi troops, police, and agents these are the eyes, ears, and hand of the occupier. With god's permission, we are determined to target them with force in the near future, before their power strengthens.

D. The Shi'a in our opinion, these are the key to change. Targeting and striking their religious, political, and military symbols, will make them show their rage against the Sunnis and bear their inner vengeance. If we succeed in dragging them into a sectarian war, this will awaken the sleepy Sunnis who are fearful of destruction and death at the hands of these Sabeans, i.e., the Shi'a. Despite their weakness, the Sunnis are strong-willed and honest and different from the coward and deceitful Shi'a, who only attack the weak. Most of the Sunnis are aware of the danger of these people and they fear them. If it were not for those disappointing shaykhs, Sufis, and Muslim brothers, Sunnis would have a different attitude.

5. Way of action: As we have mentioned to you, our situation demands that we treat the issue with courage and clarity. So the solution, and god only knows, is that we need to bring the Shi'a into the battle because it is the only way to prolong the duration of the fight between the infidels and us. We need to do that because:

A. The Shi'a have declared a subtle war against Islam. They are the close, dangerous enemy of the Sunnis. Even if the Americans are also an archenemy, the Shi'a are a greater danger and their harm more destructive to the nation than that of the Americans who are anyway the original enemy by consensus.

B. They have supported the Americans, helped them, and stand with them against the Mujahidin. They work and continue to work towards the destruction of the Mujahidin.

C. Fighting the Shi'a is the way to take the nation to battle. The Shi'a have taken on the dress of the army, police, and the Iraqi security forces, and have raised the banner of protecting the nation, and the citizens. Under this banner, they have begun to assassinate the Sunnis under the pretense that they are saboteurs, vestiges of the Ba'th, or terrorists who spread perversion in the country. This is being done with strong media support directed by the governing council and the Americans, and they have succeeded in splitting the regular Sunni from the Mujahidin. For example, in what they call the Sunni triangle, the army and police are spreading out in these regions, putting in charge Sunnis from the same region. Therefore, the problem is you end up having an army and police connected by lineage, blood, and appearance to the people of the region. This region is our base of operations from where we depart and to where we return. When the Americans withdraw, and they have already started doing that, they get replaced by these agents who are intimately linked to the people of this region. What will happen to us, if we fight them, and we have to fight them, is one of only two choices:

1) if we fight them, that will be difficult because there will be a schism between us and the people of the region. How can we kill their cousins and sons and under what pretext, after the Americans start withdrawing? The Americans will continue to control from their bases, but the sons of this land will be the authority. This is the democracy, we will have no pretext.

2) we can pack up and leave and look for another land, just like it has happened in so many lands of jihad. Our enemy is growing stronger day after day, and its intelligence information increases. By god, this is suffocation! We will be on the roads again. People follow their leaders, their hearts may be with you, but their swords are with their kings. So i say again, the only solution is to strike the religious, military, and other cadres of the Shi'a so that they revolt against the Sunnis. Some people will say, that this will be a reckless and irresponsible action that will bring the Islamic nation to a battle for which the Islamic nation is unprepared. Souls will perish and blood will be spilled. This is, however, exactly what we want, as there is nothing to win or lose in our situation. The Shi'a destroyed the balance, and the religion of god is worth more than lives. Until the majority stands up for the truth, we have to make sacrifices for this religion, and blood has to be spilled. For those who are good, we will speed up their trip to paradise, and the others, we will get rid of them.

By god, the religion of god is more precious than anything else. We have many rounds, attacks, and black nights with the Shi'a, and we cannot delay this. Their menace is looming and this is a fact that we should not fear, because they are the most cowardly people god has created. Killing their leaders will weaken them and with the death of the head, the whole group dies. They are not like the Sunnis. If you knew the fear in the souls of the Sunnis and their people, you would weep in sadness. How many of the mosques have they have turned in to Shi'a mosques ("husayniyas")? How many houses they have destroyed with their owners inside? How many brothers have they killed? How many sisters have been raped at the hands of those vile infidels?

If we are able to deal them blow after painful blow so that they engage in a battle, we will be able to reshuffle the cards so there will remain no value or influence for the ruling council, or even for the Americans who will enter into a second battle with the Shi'a. This is what we want. Then, the Sunni will have no choice but to support us in many of the Sunni regions. When the Mujahidin would have secured a land they can use as a base to hit the Shi'a inside their own lands, with a directed media and a strategic action, there will be a continuation between the Mujahidin inside and outside of Iraq. We are racing against time, in order to create squads of Mujahidin who seek refuge in secure places, spy on neighborhoods, and work on hunting down the enemies. The enemies are the Americans, police, and army. We have been training these people and augmenting their numbers.

As far as the Shi'a, we will undertake suicide operations and use car bombs to harm them. We have been working on monitoring the area and choosing the right people, looking for those who are on the straight path, so we can cooperate with them. We hope that we have made progress, and perhaps we will soon decide to go public — even if gradually — to display ourselves in full view. We have been hiding for a long time, and now we are seriously working on preparing a media outlet to reveal the truth, enflame zeal, and become an outlet for jihad in which the sword and the pen can turn into one. Along with this, we strive to illuminate the hindering errors of Islamic law and the clarifications of Islamic legal precepts by way of tapes, lessons, and courses which people will come to understand.

The suggested time for execution: we are hoping that we will soon start working on creating squads and brigades of individuals who have experience and expertise. We have to get to the zero-hour in order to openly begin controlling the land by night and after that by day, god willing. The zero-hour needs to be at least four months before the new government gets in place. As we see we are racing time, and if we succeed, which we are hoping, we will turn the tables on them and thwart their plan. If, god forbid, the government is successful and takes control of the country, we just have to pack up and go somewhere else again, where we can raise the flag again or die, if god chooses us.

6. What about you? You, noble brothers, leaders of jihad, we do not consider ourselves those who would compete against you, nor would we ever aim to achieve glory for ourselves like you did. The only thing we want is to be the head of the spear, assisting and providing a bridge over which the Muslim nation can cross to promised victory and a better tomorrow. As we have explained, this is our belief. So if you agree with it and are convinced of the idea of killing the perverse sects, we stand ready as an army for you, to work under your guidance and yield to your command. Indeed, we openly and publicly swear allegiance to you by using the media, in order to exasperate the infidels and confirm to the adherents of faith that one day, the believers will revel in god's victory. If you think otherwise, we will remain brothers, and disagreement will not destroy our cooperation and undermine our working together for what is best. We support jihad and wait for your response. May god keep for you the keys of goodness and preserve Islam and his people. Amen, amen.

[mr mahs]

Let me know if there's anything else you want me to prove you wrong on....

[marksimons]

any of you chicken hawks going out to iraq in order to speed up the ending of the war?

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by marksimons

any of you chicken hawks going out to iraq in order to speed up the ending of the war?

And when are you running to the town square to sing koom- by- ya.. with your neighborhood terrorist? You are a joke

You and your kind of pacifism when America acts is a disgrace. You protest our actions but turn a blind eye to the evil we are fighting against. It's people like you that took a sigh of relief when Chamberlain returned from Germany with the illusion of peace, all the while Hitler was planning your demise, and refered to your vaginaism as his "little worms" Fuck off and go bitch to someone who cares you little boy.... Your rantging is gtting tiresome:blown:

[marksimons]

are you going to fight in this war?

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by marksimons

are you going to fight in this war?

If I am called, I will go!

[marksimons]

what you mean if there is a draft?

why don't you volunteer if you so fond of it?

why weren't you on the road into bagdhad to help get rid of saddam?

why are you sitting here when american troops are getting shot at, missiles launched at them, every day.

why aren't you out there helping the people you want to be out there?

why do you waste your time arguing with me, when you could be out there in iraq of afghanistan, fighting YOUR war?

well?

you're waiting to be called, does that mean your in the reserves? you're already in the army?

if so, I apologise, you're actually standing behind your beliefs.

but if not, what kind of a chicken hawk are you...

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by marksimons

what you mean if there is a draft?

why don't you volunteer if you so fond of it?

why weren't you on the road into bagdhad to help get rid of saddam?

why are you sitting here when american troops are getting shot at, missiles launched at them, every day.

why aren't you out there helping the people you want to be out there?

why do you waste your time arguing with me, when you could be out there in iraq of afghanistan, fighting YOUR war?

well?

you're waiting to be called, does that mean your in the reserves? you're already in the army?

if so, I apologise, you're actually standing behind your beliefs.

but if not, what kind of a chicken hawk are you...

If I am called I will go...

[marksimons]

so are you in the army and just waiting to ship out or what?

[siceone]

Every citizen in this country helps the military in his way or another. waking up to to go work every day to provide the tax dollars that feed our troops. rasing money for donations to the military, raising money for the iraqi people.. I find your assertion that everyone who supported the war needs to pick up a rifle and go fight, completely ridiculous.

what about people not cut out to be soldiers ? being a soldier entails more than being able to fire a rifle and invade coutries. personally I know for a fact Im not cut out to be a soldier because of my experience with the military people in my familiy ( which there are alot) and hearing about the military from recruiters and the people from OCS even in a light painted most favorably to the military, I know I could do it. So like I said Not everyone is cut out for the military

[marksimons]

have you done any fundraising for the iraqi people or the US army then?

[siceone]

Yes

I have... Now shut the fuck up I have a cousin over there and many friends don't even start talking shit to me about Supporting our troops

[marksimons]

relax, I'm just trying to find out who is a chicken hawk and who actually does stuff to make a difference.

there's a difference between supporting the troops, as you appear to be doing, and I have no idea what it's like to have people you like in a combat zone, and those people who sit and talk up war with no thought of going themselves (unless they're forced to by a draft) and not doing anything pro-active to support the troops.

it's a fucked up situation, kids are being sent over there for lies, and bush is joking about not being able to find the WMDs...

how do you feel about bush joking about the reasons for war whilst people you know out there are putting their lives on the line for his lies?