Democrates against bush

[shroomy]

and when I say "Democrates agains bush" Im not saying they are taking a vow of chastity.

I just thought some quotes by some famous democrates are in order.

not to bash the dems, but to show that they are all fucking hypocrites who will say or do anything for political advantage.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."

President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."

Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."

Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."

Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."

Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."

Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."

Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."

Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."

Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...

Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WMD'S AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES??? Right!!!

[sobe2003]

NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WMD'S AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES??? Right!!!

He did Lie . . .

"Iraq has never threatened nor been implicated in any attack against U.S. territory and the CIA has reported no Iraqi-sponsored attacks against American interests since 1991." Stephen Zunes, "An Annotated Overview of the Foreign Policy Segments of President George W. Bush’s State of the Union Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29, 2003. Segments of President George W. Bush’s State of the Union Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29, 2003

"Iraq never threatened U.S.security. Bush officials cynically attacked a villainous country because they knew it was easier than finding the real 9/11 villain, who had no country. And now they're hoist on their own canard." Maureen Dowd, "We’re Not Happy Campers," The New York Times, September 11, 2003.

"Iraq never threatened the US, let alone Australia. The basic consideration was and remains the perception of America's wider strategic interest in the Middle East." Richard Woolcott, "Thread bare Basis To The Homespun Yarn That Led Us Into Iraq," Sydney Morning Herald, November 26, 2003—(Woolcott was Australia’s Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs And Trade during the first Gulf War.)

For definition of murder of civilians (as opposed to combatants), see Article 3 of the Geneva Convention . ("For persons taking no active part in the hostilities, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time (a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds.")

[sobeton]

Bush is the biggest hypocrite and liar, who has ever occupied the White House IMO. most politicians are hypocrites, lie, and will say anything to get elected. Bush brings it to a new and dangerous level. add to that he is just plan stupid and arrogant to boot.

George Bush, Lying, & the Dogs of War

[funketeer]

Masters of War (Bob Dylan)

Come you masters of war

You that build all the guns

You that build the death planes

You that build the big bombs

You that hide behind walls

You that hide behind desks

I just want you to know

I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'

But build to destroy

You play with my world

Like it's your little toy

You put a gun in my hand

And you hide from my eyes

And you turn and run farther

When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old

You lie and deceive

A world war can be won

You want me to believe

But I see through your eyes

And I see through your brain

Like I see through the water

That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers

For the others to fire

Then you set back and watch

When the death count gets higher

You hide in your mansion

As young people's blood

Flows out of their bodies

And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear

That can ever be hurled

Fear to bring children

Into the world

For threatening my baby

Unborn and unnamed

You ain't worth the blood

That runs in your veins

How much do I know

To talk out of turn

You might say that I'm young

You might say I'm unlearned

But there's one thing I know

Though I'm younger than you

Even Jesus would never

Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question

Is your money that good

Will it buy you forgiveness

Do you think that it could

I think you will find

When your death takes its toll

All the money you made

Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die

And your death'll come soon

I will follow your casket

In the pale afternoon

And I'll watch while you're lowered

Down to your deathbed

And I'll stand o'er your grave

'Til I'm sure that you're dead

[mrmatas2277]

Bush is the biggest hypocrite and liar, who has ever occupied the White House IMO.

WOW...i think we should do a CP vote to see....

[shroomy]

He did Lie . . .

"Iraq has never threatened nor been implicated in any attack against U.S. territory and the CIA has reported no Iraqi-sponsored attacks against American interests since 1991." Stephen Zunes, "An Annotated Overview of the Foreign Policy Segments of President George W. Bush’s State of the Union Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29, 2003. Segments of President George W. Bush’s State of the Union Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29, 2003

"Iraq never threatened U.S.security. Bush officials cynically attacked a villainous country because they knew it was easier than finding the real 9/11 villain, who had no country. And now they're hoist on their own canard." Maureen Dowd, "We’re Not Happy Campers," The New York Times, September 11, 2003.

"Iraq never threatened the US, let alone Australia. The basic consideration was and remains the perception of America's wider strategic interest in the Middle East." Richard Woolcott, "Thread bare Basis To The Homespun Yarn That Led Us Into Iraq," Sydney Morning Herald, November 26, 2003—(Woolcott was Australia’s Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs And Trade during the first Gulf War.)

For definition of murder of civilians (as opposed to combatants), see Article 3 of the Geneva Convention . ("For persons taking no active part in the hostilities, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time (a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds.")

that is just fucking stupid .....

first to say he lied ... then to give a few quotes from others without saying what he lied about .....

Then to assert that iraq didn't threaten the US... lol

Iraq shot at our planes a few times a week over the no fly zone, were trying to by a nuclear missle from north korea, tryed to assasinate an expresident, started two wars that cost over 2 million lives, and according to the UN commision on human rights, killed over 300,000 of their own citizens.

now add in the well documented fact that they wanted to invade saudi arabia (and the whole middle east) and create one large islamic state (and the power to send the world into a depression with 85% of the oil reserves)

[obby]

that is just fucking stupid .....

first to say he lied ... then to give a few quotes from others without saying what he lied about .....

Welcome to the wonderful land of the demz. I call it la la land. Could be the pills. Could be the chills.

: )

Good luck Shroomy.......trust me. It's like talking to a wall.

We killed Indians

We hung black people

We planned 9/11

We went for oil

We planted the WMD's

We Are The Real Axis Of Evil

ohh wait....and it's all Bush's fault

[sobeton]

LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -- President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.

FACT: This story, leaked to and breathlessly reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officials, who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst, who was part of the tubes investigation, angrily told The New Republic: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie."

LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly."

LIE #3: "We believe [saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." -- Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."

FACT: There was and is absolutely zero basis for this statement. CIA reports up through 2002 showed no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program.

LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested.

LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

FACT: No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes.

LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

FACT: Said drones can't fly more than 300 miles, and Iraq is 6,000 miles from the U.S. coastline. Furthermore, Iraq's drone-building program wasn't much more advanced than your average model plane enthusiast. And isn't a "manned aerial vehicle" just a scary way to say "plane"?

LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." -- President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.

FACT: Despite a massive nationwide search by U.S. and British forces, there are no signs, traces or examples of chemical weapons being deployed in the field, or anywhere else during the war.

LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." -- Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.

FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.

LIE #9: "We know where [iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.

FACT: Needless to say, no such weapons were found, not to the east, west, south or north, somewhat or otherwise.

LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." -- President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.

FACT: This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts -- including the State Department's intelligence wing in a report released this week -- have since declared this to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves.

So, months after the war, we are once again where we started -- with plenty of rhetoric and absolutely no proof of this "grave danger" for which O.J. Smith died. The Bush administration is now scrambling to place the blame for its lies on faulty intelligence, when in fact the intelligence was fine; it was their abuse of it that was "faulty."

Rather than apologize for leading us to a preemptive war based on impossibly faulty or shamelessly distorted "intelligence" or offering his resignation, our sly madman in the White House is starting to sound more like that other O.J. Like the man who cheerfully played golf while promising to pursue "the real killers," Bush is now vowing to search for "the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes."

On the terrible day of the 9/11 attacks, five hours after a hijacked plane slammed into the Pentagon, retired Gen. Wesley Clark received a strange call from someone (he didn't name names) representing the White House position: "I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein,'" Clark told Meet the Press anchor Tim Russert. "I said, 'But -- I'm willing to say it, but what's your evidence?' And I never got any evidence.'"

2004 Independent Media Institute.Christopher Scheer, AlterNet

[shroomy]

Hey... Tony gets it...

If you accuse someone of lying, you point out what they said and why you think its a lie.

but ... now I have to read it .... then respond.

[shroomy]

well besides a couple of points .... there is a huge hole in the logic ....

being wrong doesnt equal lying.

lets look at one of the so called "Facts"

FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.

WHAT A FLAT OUT LIE!!!!!

First they have discovered a nerve agent filled artillery shell, but rightfully didnt make a big deal about it. But it was confirmed and well documented. So that "One Drop" statement is a lie???

second there is no "Use By" date .... there are agreed upon dates where the chemicals or biological agents may "possibly" degrade, so should be destroyed and replaced with "fresh" weapons .... but that doesnt mean they are harmless, chemical weapons from world war I are still capable (and do every few years) caused deaths and they sure as hell are well past their use by date .... or take a few vicodans after their used by date and see if they have magically become inert because they have passed their day.

[sobeton]

OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM

U.S. reports discovery of sarin, mustard gas

Could be among WMD Saddam hid from inspectors

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: May 17, 2004

1:25 p.m. Eastern

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

Two separate discoveries of chemical weapons, possibly among the weapons of mass destruction Saddam hid from inspectors, were reported today in Iraq by U.S. officials.

The Iraq Survey Group, assigned the task of searching for WMD, confirmed a roadside bomb that exploded Saturday near a U.S. military convoy in the area of Baghdad International Airport contained sarin nerve agent.

Also, a senior Bush administration official told Fox News U.S. military units two weeks ago discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an improvised explosive device, or IED.

The Iraqi Survey Group and others believe the mustard gas shell could have been one of the 550 for which ousted Iraq President Saddam Hussein failed to account shortly before the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told reporters the sarin shell belonged to a class of ordnance the Saddam regime said was destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war.

"It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED and basically from the detection of that and when it exploded, it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," Kimmitt said.

Tests on the mustard gas concluded it was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective," Fox News said.

Investigators are trying to find out how insurgents obtained the chemical weapons.

Apparently, however, the bombmakers were unaware the devices contained the chemical agents.

No serious injuries were reported after the sarin incident, but two people were treated for "minor exposure."

The discovery came about when soldiers transporting the shell for inspection suffered symptoms consistent with low-level chemical exposure, according to Fox News.

Administration officials told the network some top Pentagon officials were surprised by the announcement of the sarin discovery, believing the matter was classified.

Network military analyst Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney commented: "Everybody knew Saddam had chemical weapons, the question was, where did they go. Unfortunately, everybody jumped on the offramp and said 'well, because we didn't find them, he didn't have them.'"

David Kay, the previous head of the Iraq Survey Group, said it appears the sarin shell was one of tens of thousands produced for the Iran-Iraq war, according to the Associated Press.

United Nations resolutions required Saddam to destroy or turn over the weapons to the United Nations, but in many cases, Kay said, Iraq did comply.

"It is hard to know if this is one that just was overlooked - and there were always some that were overlooked, we knew that - or if this was one that came from a hidden stockpile," Kay said. "I rather doubt that because it appears the insurgents didn't even know they had a chemical round."

Even though the discovery shows Saddam did not fully comply with the U.N., Kay said, "It doesn't strike me as a big deal."

Hans Blix, the former U.N. weapons inspector, said today that before the war, his team found 16 empty warheads marked for use with sarin.

The sarin gas, he said, according to the AP, could have been from a leftover shell found in a chemical dump.

"It doesn't sound absurd at all," he said. "There can be debris from the past and that's a very different thing from have stocks and supplies."

Sarin-type agents constituted about 20 percent of all chemical weapons agents that Saddam Hussein's government declared it had produced, according to U.N. weapons inspectors, the AP reported.

[sobeton]

well besides a couple of points .... there is a huge hole in the logic ....

being wrong doesnt equal lying.

lets look at one of the so called "Facts"

FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.

WHAT A FLAT OUT LIE!!!!!

First they have discovered a nerve agent filled artillery shell, but rightfully didnt make a big deal about it. But it was confirmed and well documented. So that "One Drop" statement is a lie???

second there is no "Use By" date .... there are agreed upon dates where the chemicals or biological agents may "possibly" degrade, so should be destroyed and replaced with "fresh" weapons .... but that doesnt mean they are harmless, chemical weapons from world war I are still capable (and do every few years) caused deaths and they sure as hell are well past their use by date .... or take a few vicodans after their used by date and see if they have magically become inert because they have passed their day.

refer to the post above. note the points in red. 10 lies, you found a fault in only one:confused: it's one thing to be wrong, and then to correct the same... making statements you know to be false is lying.

[shroomy]

refer to the post above. note the points in red. 10 lies, you found a fault in only one:confused: it's one thing to be wrong, and then to correct the same... making statements you know to be false is lying.

I was just trying to point out that the majority of the points were not very accurate in how thier so called FACTS (even if they are correct) don't mean they were lying, and the so called FACTS, are just as much propiganda as anything comming out of the whitehouse.

EVERYONE thought Iraq had chemical and biological weapons!!!!

Me... I don't give a shit... that evil fucker had to go, the price (for the US, Iraq, and the world) of letting him stay was much higher than of taking him out now. Besides, he deserved it, and then some.

[sobeton]

I was just trying to point out that the majority of the points were not very accurate in how thier so called FACTS (even if they are correct) don't mean they were lying, and the so called FACTS, are just as much propiganda as anything comming out of the whitehouse.

EVERYONE thought Iraq had chemical and biological weapons!!!!

Me... I don't give a shit... that evil fucker had to go, the price (for the US, Iraq, and the world) of letting him stay was much higher than of taking him out now. Besides, he deserved it, and then some.

the propaganda flows both ways, I would agree. also I agree the bastard had to go, I just don't agree with the pretence the Bush Administration used to justify the same. however ,what’s done is done. we need to clean up the mess, and get our people home as soon as is humanely possible. IMO we need to concentrate our full resources, on helping to see that 9/11 NEVER happens again.