Moore vs. O'Reilly

[sasser]

Moore: Bush 'Didn't Tell the Truth'

Tuesday, July 27, 2004

BOSTON — It was a match-up the media and political observers have longed for. No, not George W. Bush against John Kerry. It's Michael Moore (search) against Bill O'Reilly.

Moore, the director who made "Fahrenheit 9/11" (search) and created one of the election season's biggest uproars, said he wouldn't go on "The O'Reilly Factor" until O'Reilly saw the entire movie. And he said any conversation would have to be aired without any editing and with the opportunity for Moore to ask O'Reilly questions.

All of the demands were met and Moore sat down with O'Reilly in the FOX News sky box high about the floor of the Democratic National Convention. Following is the full transcript of their meeting:

MICHAEL MOORE: That’s fair, we’ll just stick to the issues.

BILL O'REILLY: The issues… all right good, now, one of the issues is you because you’ve been calling Bush a liar on weapons of mass destruction, the Senate Intelligence Committee, Lord Butler’s investigation in Britain, and now the 9/11 Commission have all come out and said there was no lying on the part of President Bush. Plus, Vladimir Putin has said his intelligence told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction. Wanna apologize to the president now or later?

MOORE: He didn’t tell the truth, he said there were weapons of mass destruction.

O'REILLY: Yeah, but he didn’t lie, he was misinformed by - all of those investigations come to the same conclusion, that’s not a lie.

MOORE: uh huh, so in other words if I told you right now that nothing was going on down here on the stage…

O'REILLY: That would be a lie because we could see that wasn’t the truth

MOORE: Well, I’d have to turn around to see it, and then I would realize, oh, Bill, I just told you something that wasn’t true… actually it’s president Bush that needs to apologize to the nation for telling an entire country that there were weapons of mass destruction, that they had evidence of this, and that there was some sort of connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th, and he used that as a –

O'REILLY: OK, He never said that, but back to the other thing, if you, if Michael Moore is president –

MOORE: I thought you said you saw the movie, I show all that in the movie

O'REILLY: Which may happen if Hollywood, yeah, OK, fine –

MOORE: But that was your question –

O'REILLY: Just the issues. You’ve got three separate investigations plus the president of Russia all saying… British intelligence, U.S. intelligence, Russian intelligence, told the president there were weapons of mass destruction, you say, “he lied.†This is not a lie if you believe it to be true, now he may have made a mistake, which is obvious –

MOORE: Well, that’s almost pathological – I mean, many criminals believe what they say is true, they could pass a lie detector test –

O'REILLY: Alright, now you’re dancing around a question –

MOORE: No I’m not, there’s no dancing

O'REILLY: He didn’t lie

MOORE: He said something that wasn’t true

O'REILLY: Based upon bad information given to him by legitimate sources

MOORE: Now you know that they went to the CIA, Cheney went to the CIA, they wanted that information, they wouldn’t listen to anybody

O'REILLY: They wouldn’t go by Russian intelligence and Blair’s intelligence too

MOORE: His own people told him, I mean he went to Richard Clarke the day after September 11th and said “What you got on Iraq?†and Richard Clarke’s going “Oh well this wasn’t Iraq that did this sir, this was Al Qaeda.â€

O'REILLY: You’re diverting the issue…did you read Woodward’s book?

MOORE: No, I haven’t read his book.

O'REILLY: Woodward’s a good reporter, right? Good guy, you know who he is right?

MOORE: I know who he is.

O'REILLY: Ok, he says in his book George Tenet looked the president in the eye, like how I am looking you in the eye right now and said “President, weapons of mass destruction are a quote, end quote, “slam dunk†if you’re the president, you ignore all that?

MOORE: Yeah, I would say that the CIA had done a pretty poor job.

O'REILLY: I agree. The lieutenant was fired.

MOORE: Yeah, but not before they took us to war based on his intelligence. This is a man who ran the CIA, a CIA that was so poorly organized and run that it wouldn’t communicate with the FBI before September 11th and as a result in part we didn’t have a very good intelligence system set up before September 11th

O'REILLY: Nobody disputes that...

MOORE: Ok, so he screws up September 11th. Why would you then listen to him, he says this is a “slam dunk†and your going to go to war.

O'REILLY: You’ve got MI-6 and Russian intelligence because they’re all saying the same thing that’s why. You’re not going to apologize to Bush, you are going to continue to call him a liar.

MOORE: Oh, he lied to the nation, Bill, I can’t think of a worse thing to do for a president to lie to a country to take them to war, I mean, I don’t know a worse –

O'REILLY: It wasn’t a lie

MOORE: He did not tell the truth, what do you call that?

O'REILLY: I call that bad information, acting on bad information – not a lie

MOORE: A seven year old can get away with that –

O'REILLY: Alright, your turn to ask me a question—

MOORE: ‘Mom and Dad it was just bad information’—

O'REILLY: I’m not going to get you to admit it wasn’t a lie, go ahead

MOORE: It was a lie, and now, which leads us to my question

O'REILLY: OK

MOORE: Over 900 of our brave soldiers are dead. What do you say to their parents?

O'REILLY: What do I say to their parents? I say what every patriotic American would say. We are proud of your sons and daughters. They answered the call that their country gave them. We respect them and we feel terrible that they were killed.

MOORE: And, but what were they killed for?

O'REILLY: They were removing a brutal dictator who himself killed hundreds of thousands of people

MOORE: Um, but that was not the reason that was given to them to go to war, to remove a brutal dictator

O'REILLY: Well we’re back to the weapons of mass destruction

MOORE: But that was the reason

O'REILLY: The weapons of mass destruction

MOORE: That we were told we were under some sort of imminent threat

O'REILLY: That’s right

MOORE: And there was no threat, was there?

O'REILLY: It was a mistake

MOORE: Oh, just a mistake, and that’s what you tell all the parents with a deceased child, “We’re sorry.†I don’t think that is good enough.

O'REILLY: I don’t think its good enough either for those parents

MOORE: So we agree on that

O'REILLY: but that is the historical nature of what happened

MOORE: Bill, if I made a mistake and I said something or did something as a result of my mistake but it resulted in the death of your child, how would you feel towards me?

O'REILLY: It depends on whether the mistake was unintentional

MOORE: No, not intentional, it was a mistake

O'REILLY: Then if it was an unintentional mistake I cannot hold you morally responsible for that

MOORE: Really, I’m driving down the road and I hit your child and your child is dead

O'REILLY: If it were unintentional and you weren’t impaired or anything like that

MOORE: So that’s all it is, if it was alcohol, even though it was a mistake – how would you feel towards me

O'REILLY: Ok, now we are wandering

MOORE: No, but my point is –

O'REILLY: I saw what your point is and I answered your question

MOORE: But why? What did they die for?

O'REILLY: They died to remove a brutal dictator who had killed hundreds of thousands of people –

MOORE: No, that was not the reason –

O'REILLY: That’s what they died for

MOORE: -they were given –

O'REILLY: The weapons of mass destruction was a mistake

MOORE: Well there were 30 other brutal dictators in this world –

O'REILLY: Alright, I’ve got anther question—

MOORE: Would you sacrifice—just finish on this. Would you sacrifice your child to remove one of the other 30 brutal dictators on this planet?

O'REILLY: Depends what the circumstances were.

MOORE: You would sacrifice your child?

O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself—I’m not talking for any children—to remove the Taliban. Would you?

MOORE: Uh huh.

O'REILLY: Would you? That’s my next question. Would you sacrifice yourself to remove the Taliban?

MOORE: I would be willing to sacrifice my life to track down the people that killed 3,000 people on our soil.

O'REILLY: Al Qaeda was given refuge by the Taliban.

MOORE: But we didn’t go after them—did we?

O'REILLY: We removed the Taliban and killed three quarters of Al Qaeda.

MOORE: That’s why the Taliban are still killing our soldiers there.

O'REILLY: OK, well look you cant kill everybody. You wouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan—you wouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan, would you?

MOORE: No, I would have gone after the man that killed 3,000 people.

O'REILLY: How?

MOORE: As Richard Clarke says, our special forces were prohibited for two months from going to the area that we believed Usama was—

O'REILLY: Why was that?

MOORE: That’s my question.

O'REILLY: Because Pakistan didn’t want its territory of sovereignty violated.

MOORE: Not his was in Afghanistan, on the border, we didn’t go there. He got a two month head start.

O'REILLY: Alright, you would not have removed the Taliban. You would not have removed that government?

MOORE: No, unless it is a threat to us.

O'REILLY: Any government? Hitler, in Germany, not a threat to us the beginning but over there executing people all day long—you would have let him go?

MOORE: That’s not true. Hitler with Japan, attacked the United States.

O'REILLY: Before—from 33-until 41 he wasn’t an imminent threat to the United States.

MOORE: There’s a lot of things we should have done.

O'REILLY: You wouldn’t have removed him.

MOORE: I wouldn’t have even allowed him to come to power.

O'REILLY: That was a preemption from Michael Moore—you would have invaded.

MOORE: If we’d done our job, you want to get into to talking about what happened before WWI, woah, I’m trying to stop this war right now.

O'REILLY: I know you are but—

MOORE: Are you against that? Stopping this war?

O'REILLY: No we cannot leave Iraq right now, we have to—

MOORE: So you would sacrifice your child to secure Fallujah? I want to hear you say that.

O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself—

MOORE: Your child—Its Bush sending the children there.

O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself.

MOORE: You and I don’t go to war, because we’re too old—

O'REILLY: Because if we back down, there will be more deaths and you know it.

MOORE: Say ‘I Bill O’Reilly would sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah’

O'REILLY: I’m not going to say what you say, you’re a, that’s ridiculous

MOORE: You don’t believe that. Why should Bush sacrifice the children of people across America for this?

O'REILLY: Look it’s a worldwide terrorism—I know that escapes you—

MOORE: Wait a minute, terrorism? Iraq?

O'REILLY: Yes. There are terrorist in Iraq.

MOORE: Oh really? So Iraq now is responsible for the terrorism here?

O'REILLY: Iraq aided terrorist—don’t you know anything about any of that?

MOORE: So you’re saying Iraq is responsible for what?

O'REILLY: I’m saying that Saddam Hussein aided all day long.

MOORE: You’re not going to get me to defend Saddam Hussein.

O'REILLY: I’m not? You’re his biggest defender in the media.

MOORE: Now come on.

O'REILLY: Look, if you were running he would still be sitting there.

MOORE: How do you know that?

O'REILLY: If you were running the country, he’d still be sitting there.

MOORE: How do you know that?

O'REILLY: You wouldn’t have removed him.

MOORE: Look let me tell you something in the 1990s look at all the brutal dictators that were removed. Things were done, you take any of a number of countries whether its Eastern Europe, the people rose up. South Africa the whole world boycotted---

O'REILLY: When Reagan was building up the arms, you were against that.

MOORE: And the dictators were gone. Building up the arms did not cause the fall of Eastern Europe.

O'REILLY: Of course it did, it bankrupted the Soviet Union and then it collapsed.

MOORE: The people rose up.

O'REILLY: why? Because they went bankrupt.

MOORE: the same way we did in our country, the way we had our revolution. People rose up—

O'REILLY: Alright alright.

MOORE:--that’s how you, let me ask you this question.

O'REILLY: One more.

MOORE: How do you deliver democracy to a country? You don’t do it down the barrel of a gun. That’s not how you deliver it.

O'REILLY: You give the people some kind of self-determination, which they never would have had under Saddam—

MOORE: Why didn’t they rise up?

O'REILLY: Because they couldn’t, it was a Gestapo-led place where they got their heads cut off—

MOORE: well that’s true in many countries throughout the world__

O'REILLY: It is, it’s a shame—

MOORE:--and you know what people have done, they’ve risen up. You can do it in a number of ways . You can do it our way through a violent revolution, which we won, the French did it that way. You can do it by boycotting South Africa, they overthrew the dictator there. There’s many ways—

O'REILLY: I’m glad we’ve had this discussion because it just shows you that I see the world my way, you see the world your way, alright—and the audience is watching us here and they can decide who is right and who is wrong and that’s the fair way to do it. Right?

MOORE: Right, I would not sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah and you would?

O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself.

MOORE: You wouldn’t send another child, another parents child to Fallujah, would you? You would sacrifice your life to secure Fallujah?

O'REILLY: I would.

MOORE: Can we sign him up? Can we sign him up right now?

O'REILLY: That’s right.

MOORE: Where’s the recruiter?

O'REILLY: You’d love to get rid of me.

MOORE: No I don’t want—I want you to live. I want you to live.

O'REILLY: I appreciate that. Michael Moore everybody. There he is…

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,127236,00.html

[mrmatas2277]

yea....i saw it last night....i laughed, i cried....

[siceone]

Moore is such a goon He didn't even answer any of Oriellys questions and Oreilly answered all of his.. Moore just proved that he's a fat coward

[igloo]

Moore is such a goon He didn't even answer any of Oriellys questions and Oreilly answered all of his.. Moore just proved that he's a fat coward

Moore is a bafoon....but I do think O'Reilly could have been better last night....

[siceone]

Moore is a bafoon....but I do think O'Reilly could have been better last night....

agreed Orielly has been really soft on his guests as of late have you noticed that?

[igloo]

agreed Orielly has been really soft on his guests as of late have you noticed that?

Yes..I have...he had an opportunity to crush Moore and his ridiculuous assertions.....

I thought the Ben Affleck session was good..I though Affleck handled himself extremely well (not to mention the smart P.R. move by distancing himself from the Hollywood blowhards)...

O'Reilly made an excellent point with respects to tax cuts to those wealthy individuals who complain about them---simply do something constructive with it.....I believe Affleck said he saved $1.5 million in tax cust this year...a lot of godd that money could do..I trust an individual with a good heart and the will to do something good with that money more than the govt...

It was also great that O"reilly pointed out that Mr. Kerry elected not to check the box to send some of your tax refund money back --I did not know the state of MAss. had that option

[sasser]

You gotta love how O'Reilly approached a yes/no question when Michael Moore asked him if he would let his kid go to Iraq to fight by saying he would go himself, and when Moore tried to make him solemnly swear he would.

Also love the typical O'Reilly spin where he denied Bush said Iraq had ties with terrorists including Al Qaeda when in the 2003 State of the Union Address he actually DID say it.

"Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qa'eda."

Transcript of State of the Union

January 29, 2003

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/28/sotu.transcript.8/

How can O'Reilly lie about this???

Wait a minute... It's something from Michael Moore's prop department

On the O'Reilly being soft on his guest department... It's the FCC crackdown, stupid.

It was also great that O"reilly pointed out that Mr. Kerry elected not to check the box to send some of your tax refund money back --I did not know the state of MAss. had that option

Another spin courtesy of O'Lielly:

Apparently he never saw a Massachusetts Tax form before.... Nice spin from the man who claims his zone has no spin...

Massachusetts Resident Income Tax Form from the Massachusetts Department of Revenue:

http://www.massdor.com/forms/inctax03/pdfs/form1.pdf

Seeing I'm from Massachusetts I would know this.

[alexx]

I gotta say Orielly made Moore look like a complete idiot. He completely proved to Moore that Bush didn't lie to the country and Moore couldn't say anything about it. Moore tried to make him look bad based on the fact that he wouldn't send his children to Iraq. Well I dont think anybody would send there children to Iraq, even if they supported the war. No one in there right minds would send there children into any war.

Micheal Moore is a very good filmaker, all his movies are made really well, and he shows/proves his points very well appealing to peoples emotional sides. However if you are somewhat educated, and have a clue about things that he speaks about, and give it a little bit of though you will realize that he is mostly wrong in everything he saids. For instance he blames Bush for 9/11. Well if you think about it Bush is only one out of I would say 1000's of people who is to blame. You got the CIA,FBI and whole US govt. Everybody missed clues. Now Bush is in charge of all this, so its very easy for someone to say, he fucked up, its all his fault.

[igloo]

You gotta love how O'Reilly approached a yes/no question when Michael Moore asked him if he would let his kid go to Iraq to fight by saying he would go himself, and when Moore tried to make him solemnly swear he would.

Also love the typical O'Reilly spin where he denied Bush said Iraq had ties with terrorists including Al Qaeda when in the 2003 State of the Union Address he actually DID say it.

"Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qa'eda."

Transcript of State of the Union

January 29, 2003

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/28/sotu.transcript.8/

How can O'Reilly lie about this???

Wait a minute... It's something from Michael Moore's prop department

On the O'Reilly being soft on his guest department... It's the FCC crackdown, stupid.

It was also great that O"reilly pointed out that Mr. Kerry elected not to check the box to send some of your tax refund money back --I did not know the state of MAss. had that option

Another spin courtesy of O'Lielly:

Apparently he never saw a Massachusetts Tax form before.... Nice spin from the man who claims his zone has no spin...

Massachusetts Resident Income Tax Form from the Massachusetts Department of Revenue:

http://www.massdor.com/forms/inctax03/pdfs/form1.pdf

Seeing I'm from Massachusetts I would know this.

You are in la-la land with your Al Qaeda-Iraq analysis.......O' Reilly denied Bush made any comments directly linking Saddam Hussein to Iraq....

MOORE: .......and that there was some sort of connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th, and he used that as a –

O'REILLY: OK, He never said that, but back to the other thing.....

Thanks for pointing out what Bush DID SAY in his State of the UNion:

"Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qa'eda."

It certainly turned out to be true....just ask the 9/11 commission that Bush haters with blinders like you selectively use when it serves your purpose

Keep sticking with the Bush lied theme...it really serves you imbeciles well

[sasser]

MOORE: .......and that there was some sort of connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th, and he used that as a –

O'REILLY: OK, He never said that, but back to the other thing.....

Thanks for pointing out what Bush DID SAY in his State of the UNion:

Anytime.

Keep sticking with the Bush lied theme...it really serves you imbeciles well

ok.

[obby]

Moore is such a goon He didn't even answer any of Oriellys questions and Oreilly answered all of his.. Moore just proved that he's a fat coward

Agree !!!!!!!

[mursa]

Both see the world through their own political poles , BUT Moore doesn't hide behind the "independant,fair & balanced" flag that O'reilly does .

[sobeton]

an interesting read:

9/11 Commission Report Confirms Key Fahrenheit 9/11 Facts

The September 11 Commission's 567-page final report has confirmed key facts presented in Fahrenheit 9/11. These include:

Attorney General John Ashcroft told acting FBI director Thomas Pickard that he did not want to hear anything more about terrorist threats. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 265

After Bush was informed of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center, he went ahead with his classroom event. After Bush was informed that the nation was under attack after the second plane hit, Bush stayed in the classroom for nearly seven more minutes, continuing to read with the children. Confirmed, Commission Report at pp. 35, 38-39.

Bush failed to have even one meeting to discuss the threat of terrorism with his head of counterterrorism Richard Clarke. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 201.

Bush failed to react to the August 6, 2001 security briefing, “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.†Confirmed, Commission Report at pp. 260-262.

142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country after September 13. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 556, n. 25 [Note that Fahrenheit 9/11 understates the number of Saudis who left.]

Individuals were interviewed by the FBI before being allowed to leave (although the report confirms that most individuals on these flights were not interviewed.) Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 557, n. 28.

White House former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke approved these flights. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 329.

It should also be noted that the 9/11 Commission does not address or deem important a number of other issues either addressed in Fahrenheit 9/11 or revealed since completion of the film, including:

What exactly was the rush in getting these individuals out of the country so soon after the worst attack in U.S. history, why did Saudi Royals and bin Laden family members receive such special treatment at a time when most Americans still could not get flights (even though airspace may have been open), and how exactly were the flights arranged by the U.S. government?

Several unanswered questions posed by Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND) in a July 20, 2004, Grand Forks Herald column: “At a time when 14 of the 19 terrorists from Sept. 11 were Saudi citizens, how and why were six secret flights allowed to sneak 142 Saudi citizens out of the United States in the days after Sept. 11 before they were properly interrogated? How do we know they weren't properly questioned? Because Dale Watson, the No. 2 man and former head of counterterrorism at the FBI has said none of them were subjected to ‘serious’ interrogation or questions before being allowed to leave. In fact, we now know that at least two and perhaps more of the Saudis who were allowed to leave after Sept. 11 were under investigation by the FBI for alleged terrorist connections.â€

Information that came to light in Dana Milbank’s July 22, 2004 Washington Post article, including the fact that at least one bin Laden family member who was allowed to leave lived with a nephew of Osama bin Laden, who "was involved in forming the U.S. branch of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth" (WAMY), which the FBI has described as “a suspected terrorist organization,†and that the bin Ladens flew out of the country on the same airplane that “has been chartered frequently by the White House for the press corps traveling with President Bush.â€

for inquiring minds see below:

9/11 Commission Report

[sasser]

Lets see if Igloo and siceone can spin their way out of THAT! ^^

[siceone]

OMG this has all been discussed first Bush finished reading to the children because he didn't want to cause a scene and scare them and he felt that that was the most appropriate thing to do at the time. tell me the difference in that decision was what?

Richard clarke himself said that Bush had Nothing to do with the bin laden family leaving it was all Clarke and he's the one who gave the go ahead.

Those reports that you cite in your argument, if you had read the news at all we historical reports with NO ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE. not to mention that there was already plans in the works to deal with al queda. all of your quote lack context and continuity you can take any one thing someone says and make it look bad. besides you should do your research about the other things that were going on and that have been clearly stated and restated already.

Nice try

[siceone]

OMG this has all been discussed first Bush finished reading to the children because he didn't want to cause a scene and scare them and he felt that that was the most appropriate thing to do at the time. tell me the difference in that decision was what?

Richard clarke himself said that Bush had Nothing to do with the bin laden family leaving it was all Clarke and he's the one who gave the go ahead.

Those reports that you cite in your argument, if you had read the news at all we historical reports with NO ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE. not to mention that there was already plans in the works to deal with al queda. all of your quote lack context and continuity you can take any one thing someone says and make it look bad. besides you should do your research about the other things that were going on and that have been clearly stated and restated already.

Nice try

[sobeton]

Those reports that you cite in your argument, if you had read the news at all we historical reports with NO ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE.

what reports are you refering to