Madrid bombings

[Guest Cosmigonon]

Who do you think is to blame for the horrible Madrid bombings?

I read that it wasn't the usual modus operandis that ETA uses, because they usually kill very specific targets, not just random people, and they haven't claimed responsability for the bombings, so now people are starting to think that maybe it had something to do with Al-Qaeda.

[Guest JMT]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040311/D818EM8G1.html

i dont know, a group came forward saying it was Al Queda. we might not know for sure for some time.

[LESjunkie]

having lived in Spain (Valencia and so many times I've been sedentary in Madrid...) , this event had a big impact on my day yesterday.  I quickly contacted all of my friends there....a friend teaching English there was just fine....most others were in Valencia and were obviously sad but very distant from any danger....however two of my best spanish friends were in Madrid, one was actually in Atocha going to her train when this happened...here is what they had to say...i was moved to tears when I read this yesterday...Tim and Aryn you remember Fernando and Delia when they came to visit during Lisa's birthday....

Hola Evan,

Gracias por tu email y por seguir sabiendo que siempre estas ahi con un trocio de tu alma pensando en españa.

Ha sido horrible, tal y como puedes ver en las imagenes. Afortunadamente nada ha ocurrido a nadie cercano. Pero hemos tenido mucha suerte. Delia estaba en Atocha en el momento de la explosion.

Ayer estuvo trabajando alli todo el dia y a las 8 de la am salia su tren para Valencia. A las 7:30 am ella estaba a punto de bajar por las escaleras hacia el anden y exploto la primera bomba. No sabian lo que pasaba y

esperaron alli. Exploto la segunda y despues la tercera y entonces oyeron por megafonia que debian salir de la estacion.

Delia ha tenido mucha suerte porque los trenes explotaron cuando iban a entrar en la estacion (uno a 300 m otro a 700 m.). Los terroristas pretendian que los trenes explotaran cuando llegaran a Atocha a las 7:45 am. Eran trenes de cercanias justo al lado del tren Alaris que llevaba a Valencia. Delia salia a las 8 am y seguro estaria alli en el momento de la explosion.

Seguro toda la estacion se hubiera derrumbado a causa de la onda explosiva, entondes hubieran habido tantos muertos como en las torres. Un desastre.

Pero bueno chico, ahora ella esta bien con su familia de Madrid y esta noche vendra en avion a Valencia. Esta un poco nerviosa todavia pero feliz de saber que vuelve a vivir.

Yo todavia estoy un poco aturdido pero mas relajado.

Un abrazo muy fuerte y muchas gracias por acordarte de nosotros. Espero verte pronto.

Fernando.

it is so sad that terrorists choose, of all the places in the world, to viciously attack cities like New York and Madrid...two of the greatest cities on the planet...Seeing the images of bloody spaniards in the streets yesterday, and to see such horror in Madrid was really a flashback to 9/11 here in new york...my two favorite places on the globe that I've ever set foot in--

[MyIbiza]

Sad day.

Thanks for the post.

[LESjunkie]

very sad day.

im happy to post that email....i think Fernando gave a good description and it's good for us to hear a real life perspective rather than just being spoon fed from general news agencies...personalizes things more...

[V. Barbarino]

honestly, i feel the us was partly to blame. if spain was attacked from al queeda, then if they didn't stand with us, who knows if they would have been bombed.... So what ever spains needs, we should give them, they are good peeps, and not for nothing, the women over there look amazinggggggggggggggggggggggg

[Guest chillin-chillin]

The attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States -- and there 911 days in between the terror attacks in Madrid and those in New York and Washington.

[MyIbiza]

hhmm...

March 11th

[Guest JMT]

6 months, exactly

[Guest ciaran_r]

900 and 11 days (wasnt counting=shows they really did catch us off guard) >

When i heard it i thought oh ,def ETA, because they said 15 dead, so thats not a lot compared to the final amount.

But later the figures just kept building and when i heard 3 bombs on one train, I thought it has to be those animals -al-queda.

a five minutes silence, was amazing, really did get me, and as well in Basque region, very honourable.

Of what has happened so far, its incredible that there has been no real retaliation, hopefully there wont be any real need to attack countries to get these pigs , if theres a good chance they havent got the first plane out.

I really do pray that peacefull protests are the only objective after this( get the murderers of course) but to show there is no need to create more onslaught in other countries.

It might be harder for those of you from spain, or spanish decent, because this was a disgusting attack,nothing ever seen in europe, not even the omagh bomb was this horrific.

I was told last night of a baby that was killed in the heart of the blast, and i felt sick, How could anyone do this, how could they walk around spain buying food etc talking to locals etc and then turn around and do this??? >

I wish it wasnt true but England is next, I dont think We can prevent it. It dosnet matter how much security you have.

The day leister square, Oxford steet-london, or birmingham is bombed,

I dread to see the retaliation. :'(

peace, Love And House :-X

[Guest antonio]

I believe Al Qaeda because of it being MARCH 11, 911 DAYS AFTER SEPT 11, and 10 bombs went off + 1 bomb didn't go off= 11 bombs. What's up with all the fucking elevens? Whoever is responsible is sick and should be shot down!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Cosmigonon]

900 and 11 days (wasnt counting=shows they really did catch us off guard) >

When i heard it i thought oh ,def ETA, because they said 15 dead, so thats not a lot compared to the final amount.

But later the figures just kept building and when i heard 3 bombs on one train, I thought it has to be those animals -al-queda.

a five minutes silence, was amazing, really did get me, and as well in Basque region, very honourable.

Of what has happened so far, its incredible that there has been no real retaliation, hopefully there wont be any real need to attack countries to get these pigs , if theres a good chance they havent got the first plane out.

I really do pray that peacefull protests are the only objective after this( get the murderers of course) but to show there is no need to create more onslaught in other countries.

It might be harder for those of you from spain, or spanish decent, because this was a disgusting attack,nothing ever seen in europe, not even the omagh bomb was this horrific.

I was told last night of a baby that was killed in the heart of the blast, and i felt sick, How could anyone do this, how could they walk around spain buying food etc talking to locals etc and then turn around and do this??? >

I wish it wasnt true but England is next, I dont think We can prevent it. It dosnet matter how much security you have.

The day leister square, Oxford steet-london, or birmingham is bombed,

I dread to see the retaliation. :'(

peace, Love And House :-X

I think you're right. Spain was attacked by Al-Qaeda, probably because they supported the war against Irak, so it is only logical to think that their next target is England. It's a very scary thought, but nevertheless a realitym and if that thappens, I don't even wanto to think about retaliation... :'(

[LESjunkie]

I think you're right.  Spain was attacked by Al-Qaeda, probably because they supported the war against Irak, so it is only logical to think that their next target is  England.  It's a very scary thought, but nevertheless a realitym and if that thappens, I don't even wanto to think about retaliation... :'(

come on, dont speculate like that...none of us have any idea here who did this---- what the hell, do we have some crystal ball? With all of the shit we are fed by our politicians --- that should be reason enough be weary of all this news---ya know?

[Guest JMT]

most people will argue that there was no connection between Iraq and Al Queda, so I dont buy that it was because of the war. its just to kill people senselessly.

[Guest ciaran_r]

its now a days since the attacks,

AMerica + Britain has said nothing.

This leaves me to believe its an internal matter,

If it were al queda america would be all over this.

But as one said, We dont have a crystal ball,

and spain is really continuing to point at eta.

[Guest Cosmigonon]

Well, so far ETA has denied any implications with the bombings, and they ALWAYS do it whenever they kill somebody, so that just might tell you something...

[Guest bcnjunkie]

As you can tell by my board name, I have a soft spot for Spain and even though my crew is in Barcelona, Malaga and Ourense I can't help but feel deep sadness when I see something like this happen. I have a hard time believing this was an ETA bombing since the are very specific when they do so, targeting politicians, military, police, goverment officials (as well as pertinent events). They normally don't target civilian thouroughfares for the purpose of random killing. Also, when ETA is behind a bombing they proudly admit it and even boast about it, so far they DENY involvement. This smells like Al qaeda to me.

[MyIbiza]

 I have a hard time believing this was an ETA bombing since the are very specific when they do so, targeting politicians, military, police, goverment officials.  

Specifics, I agree. I was in Bilbao in 2000, and everything that was mention about ETA is that they will target specific groups (politicians, military, etc...)

When I was there a politician was shot in the head by ETA, in broad daylight.

[Guest endymion]

Those dates looked awfully suspicious but now there is evidence based on associations between suspects in al Qaeda operations.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/16/spain.connections/index.html

That right there is evidence that I believe that points to al Qaeda on the Madrid bombings. Show me the jury ballot and I'll check "guilty as charged".

As far as the big chess game goes, that Madrid bombing was a really well-engineered surgical strike that swayed a critical vote of a critical ally of the US away from the fight against terror. It really is too bad that our guy on our side running our fight against terror is an idiot who can't even seem to bomb the right countries. We need somebody smarter in charge real soon now because a bunch of people in England are going to die in terror attacks now because Bush invaded Iraq instead of fighting al Qaeda like we have been expecting him to.

[ryan2772]

also, the new guy in spain will most likely take the completely opposite position as his predecessor. i think he will completely disown the united states, as he sees his people wanting him to do that. there are some big changes coming in international politics.

[Guest endymion]

So one question for the election here is: Would we have more reliable international support right now in our fight against terror if we had built an alliance and found a consensus on how to proceed, rather than just telling the world "screw you all, we know what to do, we're taking Iraq!"

Followup question: would we have more reliable international support right now in our fight against terror if we had actually proceeded after 9/11 to conduct a fight against terror, rather than a fight against Iraq?

[Guest antonio]

So one question for the election here is: Would we have more reliable international support right now in our fight against terror if we had built an alliance and found a consensus on how to proceed, rather than just telling the world "screw you all, we know what to do, we're taking Iraq!"

Followup question: would we have more reliable international support right now in our fight against terror if we had actually proceeded after 9/11 to conduct a fight against terror, rather than a fight against Iraq?

Yes, definitely the U.S. was absolutely wrong in not having the approval and support of the U.N. Everyone knows that the fight against Iraq is petroleum-motivated and nobody is going to back the U.S. up after Bush and his gang of motherf@#@$#%( Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld) haven't found shit there. Now that things have become serious and complicated, Bush is crying out for help from the U.N.

Terror seeds in the hate of terrorists against U.S. international policy. We have to acknowledge the fact that U.S. is the world's #1 terrorist. Even though there is no possible reasoning for killing innocent people, the real solution towards terrorism is questioning where it stems from and how U.S. international policy has created such hate and anti-american feeling all over the world.

Remember, all great empires of the world have fallen. If U.S. doesn't get its shit together, take George Bush out of presidency, and create a true international alliance in the war against terror, I'm afraid that the largest empire of the new world will fall too.

[Guest endymion]

Antonio, some people are going to pounce on you for calling the US a terrorist organization. Thought I'd mention something pre-emptively for you. Not only have we easily killed more innocents than al Qaeda, we have done it clumsily and we are not set up to benefit from the killing that we are doing.

Bush has killed as many as 10,000 innocent civilians in Iraq. We still do not know to this day exactly what his justification was or what his goals are. The operation is still not over because it had unclear goals and an unclear plan and now the US is stuck in a quagmire with no escape in sight.

al Qaeda killed a couple of hundred innocent civilians in Madrid. They had a clear goal of swinging international support away from Bush. They succeeded in a very efficient and surgical fashion with calculated and limited exposure risk. Their operation is now over and in the past, no quagmire to escape from.

I'm not defending al Qaeda. All of this killing is wrong. All of it.

[Guest antonio]

Yup, you're right, there is no reason at all to kill innocent people. No matter if its legal or unlegal, killing innocent people is an act of terrorism no matter where it comes from.

The real problem comes when you start a war before knowing how you're going to finish it. Also, the people that push and pull on George Bush's strings are guys like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, both known for their cinism, sarcasm, and lack of humane qualities, not to mention great advocates of the use of military force.(I wonder why their campaigns are sponsored by military and defense related private companies)

[Guest JMT]

Yes, definitely the U.S. was absolutely wrong in not having the approval and support of the U.N.  Everyone knows that the fight against Iraq is petroleum-motivated and nobody is going to back the U.S. up after Bush and his gang of motherf@#@$#%( Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld) haven't found shit there.  Now that things have become serious and complicated, Bush is crying out for help from the U.N.

Terror seeds in the hate of terrorists against U.S. international policy.  We have to acknowledge the fact that U.S. is the world's #1 terrorist.  Even though there is no possible reasoning for killing innocent people, the real solution towards terrorism is questioning where it stems from and how U.S. international policy has created such hate and anti-american feeling all over the world.  

Remember, all great empires of the world have fallen.  If U.S. doesn't get its shit together, take George Bush out of presidency, and create a true international alliance in the war against terror, I'm afraid that the largest empire of the new world will fall too.

im only saying a few things then you guys can have this thread for yourselves.  i think you smoke crack.  the oil argument is that of a 3 year old.  we went there for oil, so now our gas is 3 bucks a gallon???  get some sense man.  bush's reasons for the war, right or wrong, had nothing to do with oil.  thats just what all the uneducated mobs of mindless lemmings cry out in small countries bc they have no clue what the hell goes on in the world.