Madrid bombings

[Guest endymion]

JMT, I say that we're losing because it's painfully obvious that:

1) Islamists terrorists are still capable of planning and executing complex, coordinated, well-funded 9/11-style operations. Madrid is proof.

2) They aren't in any hurry to do it, they have the element of surprise. The brazen selection of the date for the Madrid bombing is proof of that.

3) They still hate us and they want to destroy an American city. They keep telling us that.

4) We have no way to stop them. We are distracted by Iraq, a situation which does not further our goals and which diverts attention and resources from finding a way to stop them.

[Guest JMT]

JMT, I say that we're losing because it's painfully obvious that:

1) Islamists terrorists are still capable of planning and executing complex, coordinated, well-funded 9/11-style operations.  Madrid is proof.

2) They aren't in any hurry to do it, they have the element of surprise.  The brazen selection of the date for the Madrid bombing is proof of that.

3) They still hate us and they want to destroy an American city.  They keep telling us that.

4) We have no way to stop them.  We are distracted by Iraq, a situation which does not further our goals and which diverts attention and resources from finding a way to stop them.

all true statements. but the war on terror is perpetually ongoing. you dont know the damage we have done to them b/c there are no facts or stats to show it. the outcome is completely undecided.

so should we just kill ourselves to appease them since we are losing already?

[ryan2772]

all true statements.  but the war on terror is perpetually ongoing.  you dont know the damage we have done to them b/c there are no facts or stats to show it.  the outcome is completely undecided.  

so should we just kill ourselves to appease them since we are losing already?

no, dude! then the terrorists will win!

[Guest bcnjunkie]

all true statements.  but the war on terror is perpetually ongoing.  you dont know the damage we have done to them b/c there are no facts or stats to show it.  the outcome is completely undecided.  

so should we just kill ourselves to appease them since we are losing already?

No, but we should go about it in a smart fashion that works to our benefit, not out of an attack that looks more like a son's revenge to the rest of the world ! and go after the proper perpetrators. I don't know about you, but I certainly hope that the value of our money and the status of our economy is stronger than other countries, as of right now our money is rapidly loosing value, another grand result of the war. How do you think we fund this war ?

[Guest endymion]

but the war on terror is perpetually ongoing. you dont know the damage we have done to them b/c there are no facts or stats to show it. the outcome is completely undecided.

Those statements are all true, except that I submit that we do indeed know exactly how much damage we did to their ability to attack us. Zero. The Madrid bombings show us that.

It's time to realize that we were fighting the wrong battle, for the wrong goals, in the wrong country. They have been fighting for consistent goals the whole time. Their international network is growing. They are pulling off large-scale mass murder attacks in urban areas in the Western world at a completely relaxed pace, with extremely effective outcomes.

We apparently have 'somebody important' surrounded right now in Pakistan. He'll get caught or killed and Bush will gloat and Musharraf will have a happy trophy to bring home to the Bush Administration for a pat on the head and a job well done. Great press releases for the Bush campaign. Too bad that whoever the hell we have cornered out there in the desert in Pakistan isn't actually all that important at all. Apparently there are some far more important people from Ansar al Islam in Morocco and in Spain.

We have been spending enormous amounts of money on this huge military force that is out killing innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. The whole time the enemy has been coiling to strike and we have no way to stop it now, and we're completely over-extended fighting a two-front war with no clear objectives. I fail to see how any of this could be looked at as positive in any way.

You are correct that we are only half-way through with the game that we are playing. What I'm saying is that we are losing.

[Guest JMT]

Those statements are all true, except that I submit that we do indeed know exactly how much damage we did to their ability to attack us. Zero. The Madrid bombings show us that.

It's time to realize that we were fighting the wrong battle, for the wrong goals, in the wrong country.  They have been fighting for consistent goals the whole time.  Their international network is growing.  They are pulling off large-scale mass murder attacks in urban areas in the Western world at a completely relaxed pace, with extremely effective outcomes.

We apparently have 'somebody important' surrounded right now in Pakistan.  He'll get caught or killed and Bush will gloat and Musharraf will have a happy trophy to bring home to the Bush Administration for a pat on the head and a job well done.  Great press releases for the Bush campaign.  Too bad that whoever the hell we have cornered out there in the desert in Pakistan isn't actually all that important at all.  Apparently there are some far more important people from Ansar al Islam in Morocco and in Spain.

We have been spending enormous amounts of money on this huge military force that is out killing innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.  The whole time the enemy has been coiling to strike and we have no way to stop it now, and we're completely over-extended fighting a two-front war with no clear objectives.  I fail to see how any of this could be looked at as positive in any way.

You are correct that we are only half-way through with the game that we are playing.  What I'm saying is that we are losing.

the Madrid bombing is one incident.  all it takes is a few guys to do it.  they could be Spanish citizens for crying out loud!  thats ridiculous.  its to the point now Tech where i think you will say just about anything to discredit what you dont like.

please show me proof of all these civilians who have been killed.  there are always casualties in war.  there couldnt have been that many in Afganastan and the ones in Iarg were probably human shields placed by saddam.

yes, the Pakistanis has surrounded Bin Laden's top man.  i just read the article.  he is the highest rank after Bin Laden.  id say its a good thing.

i give up, im done!!!!!!  no more f-ing politics!!!  its just the same BS circle going round and round.  and its against my religion since i gave it up for lent.

[Guest endymion]

yes, the Pakistanis has surrounded Bin Laden's top man. i just read the article. he is the highest rank after Bin Laden. id say its a good thing.

If the guy in the desert that we have surrounded were important then it would be great that we caught him. It looks to me like the dangerous people aren't in a desert in Afghanistan, they are in apartments somewhere in Spain. Or in Morocco. Or maybe Germany. France? Not really sure. They have to find a simple way to get into England to kill a bunch of people so there is probably a team setting up in apartments in England right now, right? I take it as obvious that there are teams in the US preparing similar attacks right now.

And you can't quit, your my only worthy opponent! Most of what you say is right. I just think that you're selecting the wrong rights. The truly dangerous terrorists were elsewhere while we were dropping those big Volkswagen bombs on caves in Afghanistan and cheering about the mushroom clouds.

[Guest JMT]

If the guy in the desert that we have surrounded were important then it would be great that we caught him.  It looks to me like the dangerous people aren't in a desert in Afghanistan, they are in apartments somewhere in Spain.  Or in Morocco.  Or maybe Germany.  France?  Not really sure.  They have to find a simple way to get into England to kill a bunch of people so there is probably a team setting up in apartments in England right now, right?  I take it as obvious that there are teams in the US preparing similar attacks right now.

And you can't quit, your my only worthy opponent!  Most of what you say is right.  I just think that you're selecting the wrong rights.  The truly dangerous terrorists were elsewhere while we were dropping those big Volkswagen bombs on caves in Afghanistan and cheering about the mushroom clouds.

i totally see your point.  but the guys calling the shots could be anyone, anywhere.  this is a sign of some slight progress, significant or not.  maybe we can get more info from this.

ok ok ok, thanks.  just go easy man, im getting weary.  its like a political "pardon the interruption" here.

[ryan2772]

i totally see your point.  but the guys calling the shots could be anyone, anywhere.  this is a sign of some slight progress, significant or not.  maybe we can get more info from this.

ok ok ok, thanks.  just go easy man, im getting weary.  its like a political "pardon the interruption" here.

yeah man....i got to get some work done!

[Guest endymion]

yeah man....i got to get some work done!

If I didn't have you guys to talk to as I worked, my job would completely overwhelm me.

[Guest JMT]

If I didn't have you guys to talk to as I worked, my job would completely overwhelm me.

LOL

you arent the only one.

[Guest antonio]

LOL

you arent the only one.

Yup, me too in here....... even if I disagree with you JMT on certain issues its just fun to have somebody to "argue" with while I'm bored at work

[Guest bcnjunkie]

Yup, me too in here....... even if I disagree with you JMT on certain issues its just fun to have somebody to "argue" with while I'm bored at work

maybe you should find another job ;D

[Guest endymion]

Man I so wish that I could be bored at work.

[Guest antonio]

Well, I am actually working on Cooljunkie San Juan, a great future job. Right now, my job is boring but I do whatever I want in here, so I guess it's not that bad after all !!!!

[Guest endymion]

I am working on CoolJunkie, San Juan right now too! It's looking good, we're getting all of the little bits wired together. Just about ready for you.

[Guest JMT]

Yup, me too in here....... even if I disagree with you JMT on certain issues its just fun to have somebody to "argue" with while I'm bored at work

we are all here for one common denominator, clubbing, music, and nightlife.

[Guest endymion]

...and extreme sports.

[Guest antonio]

...and extreme sports.

hell yeah!!!