SOBE

[MIRZA1414779019]

I am just curious to see what your opinions are on this situation? ???

[Guest AlanS]

Downtown...

[V. Barbarino]

only a child would vacation in south beach.. it's so ghetto, it reminds me the bronx with better weather..

[Guest web_norah]

i dont think all parts of Sobe are gettho, Lincoln Rd and the areas of Smith and Wollensky arent ugly at all.

but to party, these days you need to know where the good parties are at (thanks to CJ), almost all of them are at very *hidden* spots, Nerve, Privilege, Jade, the hotel afternoon or nighttime parties, Crobar on Mondays, etc.....

[Guest LeVeL]

What a shame the beach has become...I was in South Beach on friday night and it was completely empty. It looked like it was a monday night instead. The grove is a way better spot right now in my opinion but the grove is all Hip Hop, so thats the only thing that sucks there is no EDM representation there.

[MIRZA1414779019]

i dont think all parts of Sobe are gettho, Lincoln Rd and the areas of Smith and Wollensky arent ugly at all.

but to party, these days you need to know where the good parties are at (thanks to CJ), almost all of them are at very *hidden* spots, Nerve, Privilege, Jade, the hotel afternoon or nighttime parties, Crobar on Mondays, etc.....

You are right, but what will happen if they have to close at 2 AM?

[Guest demo909]

only a child would vacation in south beach.. it's so ghetto, it reminds me the bronx with better weather..

Actually it's more like the jersey shore....the wife beater scene is out of control here

[Guest web_norah]

then at 2 am if you want to continue partyng, you'd have to go downtown...or go home. most states 2 am is the rule anyway. South Florida is very fortunate and most people dont realize it

[Guest pod]

2 AM closing time is proposed only in the infamous "south of 5th street" zone. As it stands, that would leave anything worth going to on South Beach alone.

Any way you slice it, the future of local nightlife is across the bridge. Think about it, you can be as noisy as you want for as long as you want...

[Guest LeVeL]

Yeah but 2 or 3 clubs wont make more noise than a whole Island. South Beach will lose its sizzle because of all this what a shame.

[ryan2772]

this ain't gonna affect me much, the only place i go to late on the beach is nerve

[V. Barbarino]

what is the 2am proposed law????

[Guest web_norah]

i think that 2am area is for places like Nikkis and Prive...although on Sunday at Cafeteria, noise complaints were made and the cops showed up and shut the party at approx 2 am.

[V. Barbarino]

only a child would vacation in south beach.. it's so ghetto, it reminds me the bronx with better weather..

Actually it's more like the jersey shore....the wife beater scene is out of control here

nj shore has always been a dump, but it only is open for 3.5 months a year...

[Guest pod]

The beach has lost a lot of sizzle in recent years. It is rapidly becoming a tourist trap. I'm gonna paraphrase Carmel Ophir, who said that the Beach is pretty much Middle America now and that Downtown is where it is at.

I'd say on the beach that the lone exceptions are crobar, Nerve, and Privilege.

[Guest web_norah]

very lone exceptions indeed....the rest is all fuss and no action or halfway decent music :-\

[V. Barbarino]

NIGHTLIFE

Clubs, Beach residents at odds

South Beach's nightlife community says tough new rules and a push to cut off liquor sales at 2 a.m. could drive them out of business.

BY NICOLE WHITE

Miami Herald

For more than a decade, Miami Beach's nightlife industry, led by mega clubs such as Nikki Beach and Opium Garden, has created lavishly stylish environs, an exclusive velvet rope and opulent parties for the hippest of the hip -- all in an effort to make the city the place to be.

It worked. Nikki Beach and its beachside tepees have been cloned in St. Tropez and St. Bart's. It was inside Privé, Opium Garden's super VIP section, that J.Lo bumped into her ex-lover Sean ''P. Diddy'' Combs this year, setting the rumor mill abuzz.

But now, the people who run the club scene south of Fifth Street and in the Sunset Harbour area -- home to the popular Purdy Lounge -- feel threatened by a well-organized and influential group of residents intent on a quieter, tamer neighborhood.

''They want us gone,'' said Steve Polisar, an attorney who represents several nightclubs and also chairs the city's Nightlife Task Force. ``The clubs are victims of their own success.''

ORDINANCES PASSED

Since last year, the Miami Beach City Commission has passed a series of ordinances that club owners say will make it difficult to do business.

But most worrisome to the industry so far is the commission's suggestion that it will roll back the sale of alcohol in South Pointe and Sunset Harbour from 5 a.m to 2 a.m.

It follows a crackdown on underage drinking and noise violators, a ban on any new outdoor entertainment in South Pointe, and a recently approved ban on new clubs or restaurants with entertainment licenses in those areas.

The combination, but in particular the 2 a.m cut-off proposal, could prove fatal, said David Kelsey, president of the South Beach Hotel and Restaurant Association.

''It would be catastrophic, there is no other way to view it, '' Kelsey said. ``[Mayor David] Dermer has declared war on tourism.''

Dermer dismisses the nightlife industry's claims that the change in hours would prove apocalyptic.

''I don't think people come here to stay out at 5 a.m. People come here for a variety of reasons, for the beaches, the architecture and the number one reason is the weather,'' he said.

''They have an all-night district in Miami, where they can go and do whatever they need to do if they want to stay out all night,'' Dermer said.

``In the long run, this change would not be a loss, it would be a gain.''

Resident Judy Clayton says the city is finally taking ``a step in the right direction.''

''This is the first time in all our years of fighting that the city is taking a hard look at its residents,'' she said.

Clayton and others say the nightlife industry is responsible for the predicament it now faces because clubs repeatedly ignored residents' cries to turn down the loud music, control the traffic congestion, clean the litter and broken glass in front of their businesses, and control the rowdy behavior from drunken patrons.

Ocean Drive resident Clotilde Luce said the clubs have abused residents for too long and have given up any attempts of striking a fair balance.

`SADOMASOCHISTIC'

[V. Barbarino]

''Balance by this definition only fits the kind of balance found in a sadomasochistic couple,'' said Luce at a recent city commission meeting. ``One party is on the accepting end of distress and pain and the other party is doling out the distress and pain.''

Residents insist that the debate has been unfairly framed as a fight against the clubs when they say it's simply a matter of respecting one's neighbors.

''We are not arrogant condo owners. Nothing could be further from the truth,'' South Pointe resident Josh Fisher said at a recent commission meeting.

''It's pretty insulting to hear people say we're turning it into Aventura,'' Fisher said. ``A fine place but not what people here want.''

FORMER DECAY

Twenty years ago, the South Pointe neighborhood was in such decay that city officials used tax dollars to spur redevelopment.

While it was zoned residential, clubs like Nikki Beach and Amnesia (Opium's predecessor) were embraced. Although Amnesia had only applied to be a restaurant with a sprinkle of entertainment, it soon morphed into a nightclub.

Residents said the noise is particularly raucous because the club does not have a roof.

Before the multimillion dollar condominiums, the clubs helped rejuvenate the area and furthered the city's allure as an international hot spot, Polisar said.

''After Sept. 11, we had seminars [organized by Dermer] saying how we were all going to band together. How soon they forget,'' Polisar said. ``Now it's politically expedient to cater to the large condo people that have come in.''

Dermer, who has acknowledged from the dais that he makes decisions based mostly on crowd sentiment, is ''completely out of control,'' said Opium co-owner Roman Jones. ``He's jeopardizing millions of dollars invested down there.''

Jones says his club and others hand over hefty resort taxes to the city each month, money they say the city should use to help clean the streets and provide more policing for the area.

''Businesses and residents have the same concerns instead of dealing with those concerns they would rather shut us down,'' Jones said. ``I can't do more than what I already do.''

Dermer says he is unfazed by the nightclubs' position that the city is being too harsh especially because it is clubs such as Opium, which once had multiple noise violations, that have forced the city to take a tough stance.

''The nightlife industry will blame the city for the problem,'' said Dermer.

`TOO MUCH DISORDER'

They will do ''everything they can in a discussion to avoid the true problem, which is too much disorder and people on the street during early morning hours,'' Dermer said.

``People are trying to sleep at 3, 4 or 5 a.m.''

Others on the commission concede that the city helped create the problems by turning a blind eye to the problem until it exploded.

''Realistically, it was the city's fault for allowing commercial enterprises [such as Nikki Beach and Opium] to go into these neighborhoods,'' said Commissioner Simon Cruz.

``This was our poor planning that created this mess, but just because it was a failure of poor planning doesn't mean you can't correct it.''

Herald staff writer Casey Woods contributed to this report

[Guest bcnjunkie]

dowtown is where it's headed !, it has a bit of a feel of what south beach did 14 - 15 years ago.

[Guest coach]

Actually, there wasn't really much of a problem until the big condos went up. And even then, it hasn't been an issue until recently when a Mr. Frank del Vecchio started his campaign of terror. I've been around a lot of these people at various city meetings and they ARE arrogant condo owners. Many of them are self-centered and close-minded in the extreme. It is too bad because Dermer was originally elected on an anti-developer platform, and now he is knuckling under to them. I certainly hope that the nightlife/tourism business owners get their act together soon to fight this, but I have seen no evidence of a decent defense. So, we'll see.

As far as downtown goes, 3 clubs does not an entertainment district make. It'll be 10 years, bare minimum, before you have anything like the South Beach scene. Where you have a place where you can go to dinner and then walk over to have an after-dinner coffee, wander up to the bar for a drink and to listen to some live music, then walk to a nightclub, and afterwards walk over to a restaurant to get an early-morning snack. And that doesn't even include anything like some live theatre, good shopping, movies, or outdoor entertainment. There is a LOT of development that still needs to be done there before it can really be called an entertainment district of any significance.

[Guest bcnjunkie]

true, but you have the performing arts center going up, the enighboring areas of the design district are also opening art galleries, and the antique dealers are moving from 71st street area to this area. 15 years ago, South Beach had Warsaw, 1235 (or was it still club Z, can't remember), and Kitchen club maybe club nu, also just a handfull (I still can't believe there's a condo with units starting at 700,000 to 12,000,000.00 right next to where kitchen club used to be !, who would have thought )

[ryan2772]

oh, the times, they are a changin...

[Guest LeVeL]

I totally agree with Coach it will be a long, long time before Downtown can even be taken a entertainment district. They have a lot of construction to do if it takes place.

[Guest web_norah]

i also think that the Design District will carry some significance to the improvement of Miami nightlife or at least part of it. all they need is a couple of more places like Grass and IO ...variety, variety

[Guest pod]

I'm not saying the ascendancy of Downtown will be instantaneous...but the foundations will be there, especially after the PAC goes up.

It will be a little more spread out, too...with options in Brickell, 11th St and the Design District. Brickell to 11th isn't an issue cause of the Metromover, and the DD is a short car or cab hop to the north.

Face it, the beach has been bleached.