DAMN!!!! Another beheading...

[Guest macboy]

>

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saudi.kidnap/index.html

[Guest LeVeL]

Thats horrible :'(

[Guest Clarisa]

Unfucking believable. I'm sickened, SICKENED!!!!

[Guest endymion]

There is a video clip that is circulating all over the world at the moment, you can find it on Kazaa or whatever real easy. Video from an Apache helicopter taken as the pilot and the gunner coordinate an attack on a bunch of farmers driving a truck in the wrong spot of desert. The crew sits there and in totally calm, calculated voices they target these farmers one by one and blow them away with explosive ammunition. The last guy is clearly wounded and on the ground, they watch him and then they target him and vaporize him into dust. Clear violation of the Geneva Convention even if the guy were a soldier but he's obviously an unarmed truck driver. That clip is very widely circulated and cited right now along with the Abu Ghraib photos, the photos of the musical instruments at the wedding party that we blew up, etc, etc, etc. People take that shit seriously, especially the ones that we are shooting at.

So these guys captured a guy who works on Apache helicopters and they slaughtered him. That's Hammurabi's Code in action. An eye for an eye. This makes a lot more sense to most of the world than us blowing up farmers with high explosive ammunition does.

You have to feel bad for this guy and his family, but he's a more valid military target than those farmers were.

[ryan2772]

you're right, tech. i've seen some clips that aren't so honorable of our military. the whole situation is one big ass mess, pretty sad.

[Guest bingo_the_clown]

I disagree. I don't think that one atrocity should be countered with another one. Two wrongs don't make a right. Tomatos are not fruits.

Our actions haven't been clean, no question about that. That doesn't make it okay to behead civilians. Holding the US military accountable for its deplorable actions is one thing, and the US should be held responsible for sure. Taking revenge on civilians, especially beheading them, well, that just raises the ire. If they have such big balls, then why is it they don't do this with military targets?

Shooting up truckers from a flying gunship sure isn't brave either, though. Then again (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think soldiers (or pilots) do altogether that much in the way of free thinking. I mean, commanders don't just say "Hey, here's a helicopter and 1000 rounds of 30mm HE ammo. Go fuck some shit up."

I don't know. Chopping off heads is just straight up wrong. It escalates thing unnecessarily and gets all the Americans all riled up and ready to start dropping low-yield nukes all over the middle east. Then it gets *really* messy.

[Guest endymion]

I don't think that one atrocity should be countered with another one.

I don't either. But we did go into a region where people think that way with guns blazing for no real reason. Seems to have kind of pissed a few people off. Karma dude.

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

I don't think that one atrocity should be countered with another one.

I don't either. But we did go into a region where people think that way with guns blazing for no real reason. Seems to have kind of pissed a few people off. Karma dude.

Techjunkie, that's a horrible thing to say. >

This has NOTHING to do with karma...so please don't convolute it

There is no reason why this guy should have been beheaded.

Was he the pilot of the Apache helicopter that killed all those farmers?? No...

Even if he was, the "eye for an eye" mentality is barbaric and medeivel.

Killing someone because he killed someone else (which the beheaded guy didn't do) is not the answer -- you're just fueling the violence and anger....and making the world a more horrible place to live

[Guest trancepriest]

It has everything to do with Karma. At least an eye for eye is more just... we're in Iraq fighting a country that didn't do anything to us. In an unjust war... unjust acts are committed. And girl, we're still living in medieval... barbaric times. Barbarism is just more fashionable now. In the end, a bullet pierces flesh just the same as a sword... and extinquishes life equally. Efficiency in killing is not civilization.

Karma - n. 1. Hinduism & Buddhism. The effect of a person's actions during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny. 2. Fate; destiny. 3. Informal. A distinctive aura or feeling.

[Guest durrtylexx]

you're right, tech. i've seen some clips that aren't so honorable of our military. the whole situation is one big ass mess, pretty sad.

Werd, Bush has us in a mess.I back up our troops and I'll stand behind the US.These lunatics should be taken care . Thats just my opinion...

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

It has everything to do with Karma. At least an eye for eye is more just... we're in Iraq fighting a country that didn't do anything to us. In an unjust war... unjust acts are committed. And girl, we're still living in medieval... barbaric times. Barbarism is just more fashionable now. In the end, a bullet pierces flesh just the same as a sword... and extinquishes life equally. Efficiency in killing is not civilization.

Karma - n. 1. Hinduism & Buddhism. The effect of a person's actions during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny. 2. Fate; destiny. 3. Informal. A distinctive aura or feeling.

I've been studying and practicing Buddhism for some time now - I know the concept of karma pretty well.

But if you want to use Buddhist terms, you have to keep with the same concept. How can you use a specific Eastern philosophic term without going on with the same concept of the Buddhist ethics of non-harming and compassion??

You have to be consistent here if you're going to use delicate terms.

An eye for an eye is not just. Like I said, it's fueling the fire. This is turning into a barbaric society. Why? Cause we keep killing...hellooooooo!!!!

[Guest trancepriest]

If you know the concept of karma pretty well? Then how could you say what happened to hm wasn't his karma?

Karma - n. 1. Hinduism & Buddhism. The effect of a person's actions during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny. 2. Fate; destiny. 3. Informal. A distinctive aura or feeling.

Perhaps I should ask... what is your personal definition of karma? And after that we can move on to discussing eastern philosophy having some commonality of shared meaning.

And as far as this is "turning into a barbaric society"... What do you consider slavery, subjugation of native american culture, segregation, racism, unfair justce system and organized crime?

[V. Barbarino]

what mess? karma??? earth to weird people the world is very simple. Right and wrong. our military isn't perfect nor will it ever be, but was sadamm killing 300k of his people and gassing them a error? was flying two planes into the trade center an error? was defending kuwait and sudi arabia in 91 an error? we didn't cause this, and BY THE FUCKING WAY TECH JUNKIE PUTIN SAID TODAY SADAM WAS PLANNING ON HITTING THE US AFTER 911, OPPS WAIT, YOU'LL SAY CNN AND PUTIN ARE LYING...

war is not perfect. We just don't kill the bad guys sometimes, but like a very good friend of mine said, "i rather have it done over there, and not here"...amen!

[Guest trancepriest]

Our presence over there is this nations karma. We sold him the ingredients that made him into the monster that he became. I guess if he was still gassing Iranians... we would be very happy.

[Guest pod]

I'm glad that we're supposedly turning the country over to them in the next week or so. Let's get out and let the animals kill each other off.

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

Wow.

Ok, I don't have a precise definition of karma.

It's way, way too complicated. Action and reaction is the simplest I can define it.

A good explaination can be found here:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma1.htm

Karma is involved in everything. BUT you guys were talking about this guy's karma as his punishment for working on Apache helicopters, which in turn, killed people. You don't know that to be true which is why I said it has nothing to do (reaction) to him working on Apache helicopters (action).

I mean, you don't know this guy's life. Maybe being some sort of engineer on helicopters was the only thing he knew how to do (and support his family...and his company made him go to Iraq).

Do you think he really knew that one particular Apache helicopter was used to kill innocent people? C'mon... You don't know...and it all has to do with intentions.

Anyway trancepriest, this is a little too deep to be discussing on a message board. If you really want to talk about it further then PM me.

[Guest trancepriest]

When other nations of non-caucasian origins... pursue efficiency in killing like we've done since the inception of this nation.. then their terrorist. The entire matter is that they don't want to be crude barbarians.. they want to be able to press a button and annihiliate an entire nation with the same efficiency... like we're capable of doing. They want to be just like us. Its our karma that we face this dilemma... we've wielded a nuclear sword with great might and honor. MAD... mutually assured destruction.. thats what our civilization amounts to.

[V. Barbarino]

i get drunk at karma in lauderdale, thats all i know on the subject...

[Guest trancepriest]

LOL ;D... humor is always a great defensive weapon of feeble minded individuals.

[Guest pod]

I'm probably not qualified to comment on this, since I'm very impulsive and would have gotten the hell out of there and nuked the site from orbit already. (movie reference)

But I don't really see it as them getting revenge, just because he was some sort of chopper mechanic...it would be like me going after Gaston Glock just because my cousin got offed by a Glock 36. They may think it is revenge, but it is just another example of the savage nature of the jihading masses over there.

[V. Barbarino]

LOL ;D... humor is always a great defensive weapon of feeble minded individuals.

true, except your little club site sucks..

[Guest trancepriest]

That i completely agree with you on.. but it still has no relevance to you being a feeble minded individual with a convoluted line of reasoning easily demonstrable in your posts.

[Guest durrtylexx]

Thank God, Budah, whatever that I'm agnostic. I believe in ME MYSELF AND I

[Guest endymion]

But I don't really see it as them getting revenge, just because he was some sort of chopper mechanic...it would be like me going after Gaston Glock just because my cousin got offed by a Glock 36.

Our justification for being there in the first place was that we were going after the engineers who were developing weapons to hurt us. Remember that whole WMD thing? We took every engineer that we could find of pretty much any area of study, killed a few outright and then stuck the rest in prison and sodomized them. Well American Apache helicopters have killed an awful lot more people than Iraqi WMD. That engineer was a valid military target by our own reasoning. We made up the rules, we can't really complain.

We can't be surprised when people start using our reasoning and tactics against us. We use unjust policy to pursue our goals. We kill the wrong people with no provocation or justification and then gloss it over. We commit murder, torture, rape, sodomy and other assorted war crimes in order to pursue an engineering infrastructure that threatened us. How can we be surprised to find that those methods are all fair game for the other side as well?

Tough rocks man, when you make a decision to not play by the rules then the rules are off bilaterally. You can't say "we are going to treat these people like slugs but we expect them to follow the Geneva Convention." Err, no, we went in and stepped on a bunch of people. They are stepping back. Be sad for the American who got his head cut off. Be sad for his family. Be frustrated at how criminal this conflict has become on both sides. Do NOT run around deluded into thinking that we are the knight in shining armor fighting God's Fight and that his beheading was "unprovoked". It was not.

[V. Barbarino]

But I don't really see it as them getting revenge, just because he was some sort of chopper mechanic...it would be like me going after Gaston Glock just because my cousin got offed by a Glock 36.

Our justification for being there in the first place was that we were going after the engineers who were developing weapons to hurt us. Remember that whole WMD thing? We took every engineer that we could find of pretty much any area of study, killed a few outright and then stuck the rest in prison and sodomized them. Well American Apache helicopters have killed an awful lot more people than Iraqi WMD. That engineer was a valid military target by our own reasoning. We made up the rules, we can't really complain.

We can't be surprised when people start using our reasoning and tactics against us. We use unjust policy to pursue our goals. We kill the wrong people with no provocation or justification and then gloss it over. We commit murder, torture, rape, sodomy and other assorted war crimes in order to pursue an engineering infrastructure that threatened us. How can we be surprised to find that those methods are all fair game for the other side as well?

Tough rocks man, when you make a decision to not play by the rules then the rules are off bilaterally. You can't say "we are going to treat these people like slugs but we expect them to follow the Geneva Convention." Err, no, we went in and stepped on a bunch of people. They are stepping back. Be sad for the American who got his head cut off. Be sad for his family. Be frustrated at how criminal this conflict has become on both sides. Do NOT run around deluded into thinking that we are the knight in shining armor fighting God's Fight and that his beheading was "unprovoked". It was not.

do you really belive this crap that you post?

seriously? insulting our military then the poor mans family with this stuff is heartless and is cowardly. A man is dead because he was doing his non combat job, and you find that to be acceptable. just plain sad and disturbing. If it were your dad, you'd think otherwise, but your narrow mindedness allows you to not feel the true affects of war and 9/11 here at home. I felt them, and I'm still upset about it. Putin said Iraq was comming after us after 9/11. But you'll skip that point and just make absurd statements about a man who works on the very machines that patroled my area of the country following 9/11. To me, he's a hero, not a acceptable target.