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Guest bingo_the_clown

Papers please!

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Guest bingo_the_clown

Oh, wonderful...

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,63926,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_7

I really, really hate to see TJ's worst fears coming true. This is just one more baby step in that direction. Let's all raise our right hands in unison...

"Ve haf vays of makink you talk!"

So are cops going to start wearing black coats and large medallions that say "Gestapo" around their necks. Their hard enough to deal with as it is, with their power trips and bullshit moral vendettas...

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yeah, i heard about this yesterday, it's horrible. but remember, you don't have to show id (EVER!). this new precedent means you'll have to identify yourself, but you can do it verbally. the only time you have to show id is when you're driving a car.

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Guest bingo_the_clown

yeah, i heard about this yesterday, it's horrible. but remember, you don't have to show id (EVER!). this new precedent means you'll have to identify yourself, but you can do it verbally. the only time you have to show id is when you're driving a car.

No, I think you have to show your ID. Otherwise, what's the point? Cop asks me my name, I say "Joe Smith", who's to say I'm not? I think you're wrong about that...

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of course, this whole scenario is fuzzy. but what i had learned from a 4th amendment rights seminar in college was that all you have to ever give a cop (verbally) is your name, social security number, and date of birth. that'll be enough for them to check if you have outstanding warrants and whatnot. but of course, times are changing quickly, so who knows. :-\

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Guest Clarisa

Can someone explain to me what's the big deal? I've never been in trouble with the law nor have been in this situation and I hear many males compalin about this.

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i see your point,. but the overtone of the thread is right on track. nazi germany was created very methodically, with policies being instituted that made privacy completely non-existant. and plus, my moral compass, what i see as being right & wrong, don't line up completely with what our government thinks is right & wrong. so that's why i love my privacy so much!

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Guest endymion

It's harder to catch a terrorist (or a drug dealer, or a counter-revolutionary sabateur, or a Jew sympathizer) if you are trusting him to correctly identify himself. That's why we can't have that.

I don't know why anybody is surprised, our all-knowing and infallible 'representative' government doesn't need warrants for wiretaps or raids, they can detain American citizens or anybody else without charging them, if their skin is dark enough or if they talk funny then killing them outright is totally cool. We are no longer the 'land of the free'. If your response to any of this is anything other than "Sieg heil, meinen Fuhrer!" and blind loyalty to the regime then you are un-patriotic.

The next step toward a totalitarian society is to grant special privileged status to citizens who toe the line and who have demonstrated their loyalty to their leadership. The Soviets favored Communist Party members, Saddam had special rewards for Baathists, Hitler had special status for Aryans in general and Nazis specifically. Be on the lookout for special privileges for American citizens who have faith in their leadership and who voluntarily give up freedoms in exchange for privileged status. That's how the slip into a totalitarian society continues. Why would an American voluntarily give up his rights to an authoritarian government? Isn't that anti-American? Yes it is but that's how it works so that's what I expect to see next.

Your chance to make a difference and buck this trend is in November. Vote 'no' on Bush.

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Guest Clarisa

In Downtown MIA is group of people going around asking for signatures to overthrow Bush. Unfortunately some of us can't sign those things. :-\

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Guest bingo_the_clown

Can someone explain to me what's the big deal? I've never been in trouble with the law nor have been in this situation and I hear many males compalin about this.

The big deal is a complete disregard for privacy. The big deal is the potential categorization and discrimination based on identity, as the government compiles information about you beyond your physical characteristics. The big deal is that this blurs the line when determining suspicion. I have every right to refuse communication, I have, as an American citizen, the right to remain silent. But not anymore. Little by little your rights as a citizen are becoming eroded and will eventually disappear. Then, all that will be left will be whether you're on The Right Side, or The Left Side, and God help you if you're on the wrong side. The police are treating you like a suspect until you can prove yourself innocent. That's fundamentally *wrong* and counter to what we supposedly believe in.

This is just one more step towards Techjunkie's nightmare of a totalitarian dictatorship. I'll bet there's an attempt to change the presidential term. Oh, nevermind, the president is nothing more than a puppet anyway, so making such a drastic change would only arouse suspicion of the Master Plan.

The really unbelievably stunning part of all of this is that a decision that is seemingly so unimportant, yet with far-reaching implications, should be left in the hands of a few, and out of the hands (and minds) of the masses until after the fact.

Frankly, if a fucking cop comes up to me on some power trip (like they invariably do) and says "Hey, boy, lemme see some ID" I want to exercise my right as a citizen to refuse his invitation. Now he can just throw me in the back of his squad car and take me to jail, to sit with all the criminals, just for refusing his request. What's next? Will I be taken to jail one day and my family never hear from me again?

It happened in Argentina. It happened in Chile. It happened in Columbia (and probably still does). It happened in Italy, in Germany, in England, even in Spain (hard to believe, I know, but it happened.)

"That would never happen here!"

There were never acts of terrorism here, either. Heightened security to prevent acts of terror is one thing. Taking my rights away is quite another: that's treating me like a terrorist first, and like a citizen second. That's un-fucking-acceptable.

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Guest guyman1966

Can someone explain to me what's the big deal? I've never been in trouble with the law nor have been in this situation and I hear many males compalin about this.

Sound like you need to find a new group of males to hang out with.

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Guest Clarisa

I don't hang with them I just hear them out. Like I said I've never been in trouble with the law as opposed to them.

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Guest guyman1966

I don't hang with them I just hear them out. Like I said I've never been in trouble with the law as opposed to them.

ummm... it was just a joke. Shit, I openend this thread thinking it was about rolling papers.

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Guest bingo_the_clown

I don't hang with them I just hear them out. Like I said I've never been in trouble with the law as opposed to them.

"I fought the law and the..." law asked me for my ID and when I refused arrested my ass and stuffed me into jail for not speaking to a cop...

Yeah, we're hardened criminals. ;D

but seriously, you've never been in trouble with the law, but what happens now, when a cop 'suspects' you of something? You accomodate him (because you don't want any trouble) and he simply doesn't believe you! Now you're in trouble. After a few days, or weeks, or moths, or years, whatever it was they suspected you of is cleared up... "Nope, Clarisa is not a terrorist agent after all", but how does that make you feel, that the cops are eyeballing you as a criminal now (not just a terrorist, mind you, but a criminal) instead of as a good citizen?

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Guest endymion

I'm a white guy with a nice car who speaks English. Cops just don't hassle me, they never ever have. It's just not the kind of thing that I have to worry about on a daily basis. I expect that as I get older and richer and I driver nicer and nicer cars and live in nicer and nicer buildings, I will have even less to fear from local law enforcement. I stay out of trouble but that doesn't really matter much because I'm just never a suspect in the first place.

I'm still upset because I am a patriotic American who believes in democracy. Democracy is the rule of the majority with the rights of the minority. We don't have either of those things in this country today and the people running the country right now are pushing us further and further away from democratic ideals. If privileged white guys who can vote like me don't pay attention then who will?

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Guest bingo_the_clown

If privileged white guys who can vote like me don't pay attention then who will?

Priveleged white guys with nice cars don't pay attention because they don't have to. And as they become more priveleged and more white, and drive nicer cars, they care less. They become ensconced in the evil empire, and they're okay with that because the empire protects them.

You said it: as you become richer and whiter, you will have less to fear from the law. With a few exceptions (TJ), these nouveau aryans will care not at all, because they'll be in the position of privelege.

<sigh> I wish I was white and drove a nice car... ;D

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Guest endymion

<sigh> I wish I was white and drove a nice car... ;D

Your problem with the law is the breaking it part, reckless driver. That and how cops really don't like it when you can go faster than they can.

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