Hypothetically?

[Guest pod]

What if the US were pummeling the shit out of North Korea right now as opposed to Iraq? What would you guys, and the world in general, think?

North Korea acknowledges and actively tests nuclear weapons, starves their citizens, and does all sorts of nasty stuff. Kim Jong-Il makes Saddam look like a saint. In other words, North Korea is an obvious target, and I'd like to think the world would be on our side (except for China) if we were pounding them as opposed to Iraq.

Nevermind the fact that North Korea does pose a direct threat to our assets and allies in the Pacific, and has ICBMs capable of hitting California...

[Guest JMT]

id be more concerned. they really do have weapons of mass destruction.

[Guest pod]

True enough.

I wonder what the public opinion would be. Would the Michael Moores of the country approve? Actually, he'd be the one to find something wrong with it.

I was all for taking out Saddam, I just don't get why Bush had to make up an excuse. "Because he's a sadistic jerk" should be good enough. We should have been totally out of there by now.

Kim is another story, do some research on what kind of charachter this guy is. He's like a Bond villian with goofy sunglasses.

[Guest durrtylexx]

All I have is if lets say Kerry wins, is he really going to pull out of Iraq immediately?Is he going to help out ease tensions in the middle east? What is Kerry going to do? What?? I don't know the man doesn't speak his mind..He doesn't even have a running mate..I don't know who I'm going to vote for.. ??? :-[

[Guest endymion]

I'm reading Plan of Attack and according to Woodward a big part of why we attacked Iraq is because Saddam was sitting there showing open military hostility. Nowhere else in the world have we allowed people to regularly shoot at Americans but here we were letting Saddam shoot at Americans in the no-fly zones every day. We had to show the world that we can't allow that crap.

If that's true then North Korea is doing the same sorts of things in their own way and they really do have WMD. Check out this story about North Korea printing fake US currency.

[Guest lyrik]

North Korea definitely needs a wake up call...however POD hit it right on the head...China. Biggest army in the world...wmd's not too mention how that would disrupt the global economy...more so than anything else I think the reason we don't move on countries like North Korea is because of the presumed results it may have on ours and the global economic balance....being that nations like NK have such strong ties to China. Its all about $$$

[Guest guyman1966]

First we clean up Iraq. Then we fucken take care of No Korea. And, then we head back to the Gulf to take care of Iran (and maybe kick Iraq in the ass if they are not behaving). While we are pounding Iran up the ass, we cut the Israelis loose and let them put Syria in line. Its a 10 year plan.

[Guest trancepriest]

All you fockers for war and not one of you serving.

[Guest JMT]

All you fockers for war and not one of you serving.

no one is ever "for war." thats ridiculous. i try to see if it is justified or not. doesnt mean that im "for it"

[Guest trancepriest]

And say in the situation that its justified... will you be the one to help bring the justice?

[Guest guyman1966]

I was a Boy Scout. Does that count?

When I was growing up we lived in a time of peace and mostly prosperity. The flames of the Cold War were dieing out and to be honest, the ROTC folks and Reserves entered and never really expected to be called to battle. Life was good. But, if my situation was different, and I lived a life where I did not have any dependent people... I'd be the first to sign up.

I’m not pro war. I dream of a day where there will be peace in the world… but we are still cleaning up the mess that the EuroTrash left from WWI and WWII. We’ve tried negotiations, giving money and aid – and where has that gotten us? The world hates us for our success. Its time to take of the gloves and stop being nice. We need a Presidental Candidate that will look at Iran, Korea, & Syria and tell them – “When I’m elected, I’m coming after you†– Just like Regan did to Iran and they freed the hostages on his inauguration. BUSH is more that man then Kerry.

[Guest JMT]

And say in the situation that its justified... will you be the one to help bring the justice?

if they instill a draft and i am called, then yes.

[Guest trancepriest]

LOL... BUSH is more man than kerry ah... lol. Isn't Kerry a highly decorated Vietnam veteran? Didn't Kerry VOLUNTEER to serve in the vietnam war even though he was highly educated and could have dodged service? How many of you are VOLUNTEERING to fight against the war on terror? How many of you have served your country?

[Guest guyman1966]

LOL... BUSH is more man than kerry ah... lol. Isn't Kerry a highly decorated Vietnam veteran?

Kerry's military record is very suspect. It must be embarrassing for you as a Vet to even mention his military experience.

Also - I have not heard Kerry voice any real plan on Iraq, the Middle East in general, Asia or any type of International Policy. In fact, he was bitching about the economy in the Primaries and he is now silent because our economic situation is improving... What does he stand for?

[Guest JMT]

LOL... BUSH is more man than kerry ah... lol. Isn't Kerry a highly decorated Vietnam veteran?

"Soldier's Letter to Kerry"

Dear Senator Kerry:

Since it has become clear that you will probably be the Democratic nominee for President, I have spent a great deal of time researching your war record and your record as a professional politician. The reason is simple, you aspire to be the Commander in Chief who would lead my sons and their fellow soldiers in time of war. I simply wanted to know if you possess the necessary qualifications to be trusted in that respect.

You see, I belong to a family of proud U.S. veterans. I was a Captain in the Army Reserve, my father was a decorated Lieutenant in World War II; and I have four sons who have either served, or are currently serving in the military. The oldest is an Army Lieutenant still on active duty in Afghanistan after already being honored for his service in Iraq. The youngest is an E-4 with the military police. His National Guard unit just finished their second tour of active duty, including six months in Guantanamo Bay. My two other sons have served in the national guard and the navy.

In looking at your record I found myself comparing it not only to that of my father and my sons, but to the people they served with. My father served with the 87th Chemical Mortar Battalion in Europe. They landed on Utah Beach and fought for 317 straight days including the Cherbourg Peninsula, Aachen, the Hurtgen Forest, and the Battle of the Bulge. You earned a Silver Star in Vietnam for chasing down and finishing off a wounded and retreating enemy soldier. My father won a Bronze Star for single handedly charging and knocking out a German machine gun nest that had his men pinned down. You received three purple hearts for what appears to be three minor scratches. In fact yo u only missed a combined total of two days of duty for these wounds. The men of my father's unit, the 87th, had to be admonished by their commanding officer because: "It has been brought to our attention that some men are covering up wounds and refusing medical attention for fear of being evacuated and permanently separated from this organization..." It was also a common problem for seriously wounded soldiers to go AWOL from hospitals in order to rejoin their units. You used your three purple hearts to leave Vietnam early .

My oldest boy came home from Iraq with numerous commendations and then proceeded to volunteer to go to Afghanistan and from there back to Iraq again. My sons and father have never had anything but the highest regard and respect for their fellow soldiers. Yet, you came home to publicly charge your fellow fighting men with being war criminals and to urge their defeat by the enemy. You even wrote a book that had a cover which mocked the heroism of the U.S. Marines who raised the flag on Iwo Jima. Our current crop of soldiers has a philosophy that no one gets left behind; and they have practiced that from Somalia to the battlefields of the Middle East . Yet as chairman of a Senate committee looking into allegations that many of your fellow servicemen had been left behind as prisoners in Vietnam, you chose to defend the brutal Vietnamese regime. You even went so far as to refer to the families of the POWs and MIAs as Professional malcontents, conspiracy mongers, con artists, and dime-store Rambos.

As a Senator you voted against the 1991 Gulf War, and have repeatedly voted against funds to supply our t roops with the best equipment, and against money to improve our intelligence capability. I find this particularly ironic since as a Presidential candidate you are highly critical of our pre-war intelligence in Iraq. However, you did vote to authorize the President to go to war, but have since proceeded to do everything you can to undermine the efforts of our government and our troops to win. Is this what our fighting men and women can expect of you if you are their Commander in Chief? Will you gladly send them to war, only to then aid the enemy by undermining the morale of our troops and cutting off the weapons they need to win?

Our country is at war Senator, and as has been the case in every war since the American Revolution, a member of my family is serving their coun! try during the war. Now you want me to trust you to lead my sons in this fight.

Sorry Senator, but when I compare your record to those who have fought and died for this nation, and are currently fighting and dying, the answer is not just no, but Hell No!

Sincerely,

Michael Connelly February 14, 2004 Dallas, Texas

[Guest trancepriest]

If Kerry's military record is suspicious... then what about Bush's military record and he didn't even serve in a war zone. Did Bush VOLUNTEER to go fight in Vietnam? Did Bush ever spend one day worrying about being killed by the enemy during the Vietnam war. Did he ever see the chaos of war... was he ever in the jungles?

[Guest guyman1966]

If Kerry's military record is suspicious... then what about Bush's military record and he didn't even serve in a war zone.

Bush never claimed to be a war hero. Clearly – In spite of what he says - Kerry is no hero.

I think I figured you out TRANCEPRIEST - you watched a military recruiting video, entered and was pissed that it was a ton of work and not the fun and games you thought it would be. I guess you are the sucker who believed the "BE ALL YOU CAN BE" crap and is now pissed that they served. Why else would you be so bitter that people who have not served can sill voice opinions on war?

[Guest trancepriest]

No I VOLUNTEERED to join the Marine Corps because it was the damn toughest fighting unit that I could find. I spent a few frustrating hours at the recruit depot when I was 17 years old wondering if I should join the green berets, navy seals or join the Marine Corps. And even while scoring high on the ASVAB test... I VOLUNTEERED for Infantry. Then I served honorable for four years. Fockers like you that have never seen dead bodies wash up on your shores, never seen a family wiped out while trying to cross through land mines... and propose war with out willing to serve in it.. make me sick.

Furthermore, in the end it was the "The Few, The Proud, The Marines." That got me in. The be all you can be shit is for consumers like you. And I'm definitely not pissed that I served.. every year i get 18G's for my service.

[Guest guyman1966]

Fockers like you that have never seen dead bodies wash up on your shores, never seen a family wiped out while trying to cross through land mines... and propose war with out willing to serve in it.. make me sick.

I'm glad I make you sick. I hope you choke on your own vomit.

[Guest endymion]

If this thread weren't so sad then it would be kind of funny. A pro-war American nightclub kid trashing two veterans like Kerry and Trancepriest in order to defend a draft dodger's opinions on how American military force should be used. Reality is far stranger than fiction.

[Guest guyman1966]

If this thread weren't so sad then it would be kind of funny. A pro-war American nightclub kid trashing two veterans like Kerry and Trancepriest in order to defend a draft dodger's opinions on how American military force should be used. Reality is far stranger than fiction.

"Club Kid" LMAO!!!!!

You made my day. ;D

[Guest lyrik]

I think the issue got lost and the point that was trying to be made is that between Bush and Kerry (regardless of past military service) who is better suited to lead NOW. Excluding their military service and going off political platform and issues both stand for I have not seen much from Kerry's side....that doesn't go to say that I am totally pro-Bush...I think every elected official has mistakes...after-all they are human. In this day and age of high-tech communication every little detail is over-dramatized and exploited. People act as if the politics of the Bush administration are things that have never been treaded upon by past presidents and staff....give me a fucking break. People so soon forget that Clinton basically funded the North Koreans nuke re-growth by giving them $3 billion dollars for what was suppose to be energy plants...but because that was a time of economic growth...oh well...as long as we Americans are prosperous lets go through life with blinders on. Fact is countries like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, North Korea and Cuba WILL have to be dealt with sooner or later. We all seen what waiting can do (911). Am I speaking out in favor of war? No, but peace talks, and financial aid and resolutions have made little head way in these areas of the world....no one ever wants war and I will be the first to admit that I did not volunteer for military services...but that is my constitutional right as is freedom of speech to voice my opinion. I have the the highest regard for men and women in the armed services fighting to secure my freedom...but if you think a change of administration is going to clear up these global problems and "settling" for someone that is not Bush is a quick cure...its time to put those blinders back on and pretend all is well.

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

What if the US were pummeling the shit out of North Korea right now as opposed to Iraq? What would you guys, and the world in general, think?

North Korea acknowledges and actively tests nuclear weapons, starves their citizens, and does all sorts of nasty stuff. Kim Jong-Il makes Saddam look like a saint. In other words, North Korea is an obvious target, and I'd like to think the world would be on our side (except for China) if we were pounding them as opposed to Iraq.

Nevermind the fact that North Korea does pose a direct threat to our assets and allies in the Pacific, and has ICBMs capable of hitting California...

China is on our side on this. That's why they are hosting talks in Bejing right now as we speak....Back in the Clinton Admin..He had Jong-Il at the negoitiating table with Madalyn Albright...Bush fucked it up though....The only reason North Korea is arming right now is becasue they are afraid that we are going to invade them.. In fact Kim Jong-Il proposed to sign a non agreesion treaty with the US stating that if the US doesn't attack them they will dismantle their weapons program but....BUSH REFUSED!!!!!

How Dumb is that?????? BUSH REFUSED A NON AGREESION TREATY THAT N. KOREA PROPOSSED!!!!

[Guest endymion]

We continue to refuse to offer aid in exchange for North Korean nuclear disarmament. At the same time we encourage Japan and South Korea to do so. We even conduct our kindness by proxy.

[Guest lyrik]

What if the US were pummeling the shit out of North Korea right now as opposed to Iraq? What would you guys, and the world in general, think?

North Korea acknowledges and actively tests nuclear weapons, starves their citizens, and does all sorts of nasty stuff. Kim Jong-Il makes Saddam look like a saint. In other words, North Korea is an obvious target, and I'd like to think the world would be on our side (except for China) if we were pounding them as opposed to Iraq.

Nevermind the fact that North Korea does pose a direct threat to our assets and allies in the Pacific, and has ICBMs capable of hitting California...

China is on our side on this. That's why they are hosting talks in Bejing right now as we speak....Back in the Clinton Admin..He had Jong-Il at the negoitiating table with Madalyn Albright...Bush fucked it up though....The only reason North Korea is arming right now is becasue they are afraid that we are going to invade them.. In fact Kim Jong-Il proposed to sign a non agreesion treaty with the US stating that if the US doesn't attack them they will dismantle their weapons program but....BUSH REFUSED!!!!!

How Dumb is that?????? BUSH REFUSED A NON AGREESION TREATY THAT N. KOREA PROPOSSED!!!!

No...NK was building their weapons programs and enrichment plants before Bush took office. The reason why Kim Jong-Il was even at those talks was to take advantage of the funding being offered up....that $3 billion dollars awarded to him during the Clinton administration is now being put to good use in enrichment plants building weapons. Now NK wants more aid...for what? To build more uranium enrichment plants instead of feeding its citizens and putting the money to its intended use. Kim isn't afraid of invasion...he could care less...yes China is mediating this process...but they have been very outspoken when it comes to military action taken towards NK. Aid has been tried before and all it has done is to serve to bolster this tyrants drive for weapons programs. Japan and South Korea are not run by a government like Korea and increasing their own military capabilities only serves to protect their country against volatile neighbors such as NK ....that and if we ever have to go to war it always helps to have allies that have a funtional national military...especially in that part of the world.