Define "underground music"?

[Guest endymion]

What is your definition of "underground music"? There seem to be many different opinions.

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

It's always changing...

But it's noncommercial, not for the masses and definitely NOT on Motorola (Van Dyke) or Mitsubishi (Dirty Vegas) commercials.

Frank Zappa said it perfectly : "The mainstream comes to you, but you have to go to the underground."

There's also the underground edm scene which Miami, for the most part, does not have.

This is the underground - The first party I went to almost nine years ago, was in an abandoned meat factory. No one knew about this party except through word of mouth and the old NYC DJs played - Heather Heart and Frankie Bones.

This is also the underground - the elusive parties Steve Lawler used to throw when he was in his teens in the middle of a field under a bridge (with a makeshift soundsystem and tables)

[V. Barbarino]

It's always changing...

But it's noncommercial, not for the masses and definitely NOT on Motorola (Van Dyke) or Mitsubishi (Dirty Vegas) commercials.

Frank Zappa said it perfectly : "The mainstream comes to you, but you have to go to the underground."

There's also the underground edm scene which Miami, for the most part, does not have.

This is the underground - The first party I went to almost nine years ago, was in an abandoned meat factory. No one knew about this party except through word of mouth and the old NYC DJs played - Heather Heart and Frankie Bones.

This is also the underground - the elusive parties Steve Lawler used to throw when he was in his teens in the middle of a field under a bridge (with a makeshift soundsystem and tables)

location has no bearing on if music is underground or not.

true underground music was rap in the 80's when it was just mix tapes. house was underground till the internet.

now the only underground stuff is cds that are in land fills.

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

i didn't say location had a bearing...i just said miami hardly has one

[Guest endymion]

But what makes it "underground"? The fact that nobody (other than Steve Lawler) is getting rich off of it? The fact that marketability is less of a factor in production decisions? The fact that only an elite few cool people know about it until after the party?

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

well, i'm not an expert on underground, but i just know what it means to me.

to me, it's one of those intangible things but also, it has to do with intentions. What were the intentions of the producer? Was the intention going into the track to market it to the masses? Or was it just a love of the music and the producer put all of his heart and soul into it?

Sasha, to me, still makes underground music, even though he's so well known. He's faded away as a DJ and producer but he'll always be up there, because he's a legend. Even though he makes good money, you can just tell that his heart is into it...and he still loves it.

It stops being underground when all the producer or DJ is doing is money-driven. *cough* Paul Oakenfold *cough*

It also doesn't seem that underground to me when you sell your track to a major corporation for use in a commercial.

It also has nothing to do with an elite few. I mean, a good track should be shared with people who love the music.

Anyway, that's my two cents....but everyone will have a different opinion.

[Guest endymion]

Is "Bob Marley's Greatest Hits" album a collection of underground music?

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

no. but the songs on it probably are.

[Guest lyrik]

Music played in basements is because it really is under ground.

[V. Barbarino]

Greenday was underground, they got hammered when they "sold out"...

would you rather stay underground or make bank??

P.O. sucks, but he lives in a huge mansion out in LA.. ya know, the lifestyle we all strive for... selling out or not, he's smart and did pay his dues..

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

Underground music is stuff that you'll never hear on the radio and mostly released by independent record labels....

[Guest endymion]

So making money off of your music is okay with the underground as long as the people paying you don't have any creative control? Or as long as you don't make too much money?

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

So making money off of your music is okay with the underground as long as the people paying you don't have any creative control? Or as long as you don't make too much money?

Of course it's Okay with the underground if you make a little money. "You don't have to live in a garbage can in order to be underground". There's a narrow margin with regard to the profitability of underground dance music that one publishes. A lot of artist don't see very much money with their releases and some others do.

As far as creative control is concerned, an artist has creative control of their song that they make. Then they can sell that song to an 'indie' record label that's when a lot of times the label will take control of how they market and/or sell the track.....And in some arrangements the artist and the label work together on this depending on the arrnagement..Or the artist if they have the money, can release their own music on their own labels....

A good example would be someone like Deep Dish...They release a lot of their own work on a label that they own called Yoshitoshi Records which is a parent label for 'Yo Records' and a label called 'Sinichi'... And they also have other remixes and releases on other labels that they don't own....... For example 'White Labels' and bootlegs...... Which are really considered underground becuz of their rarity and some legalities behind the use of some samples in the work etc....

If you hear it on the radio (mainstream station) or see it on the Billboard top 100 it's not underground no more....

An example of this would be one of Murks older releases 'Fired Up'. The last I heard it in public was during a Chicago Bulls game about 3 years ago. But the song was circulated in the so called underground probably 4 years before that....

Hope this helps...

[Guest endymion]

Well so what I don't get is why the 'undergound' will cut loose anybody who starts to make too much money. If it's supposed to be all about the music then somebody who is passionate becoming successful should be a good thing.

Distrust of the unknown motives of people who are making lots of cash? Or envy?

I have surfed the wave of a handful of different little music fads in my life and so far each one seems to have been full of people who will only praise music that nobody has heard of. I used to hang with surfers in high school who listened to Nirvana obsessively until "Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit MTV. Then Nirvana was yesterday's news since the cheerleaders were listening to it. Same song that was so 'underground' a few months ago when we were playing it at the beach, but now it's uncool.

I have seen history repeat itself in goth, grunge, trance, breaks, whatever. Did Pearl Jam really start to suck or did they just get a record contract that was too big for their fans to respect? Or was it that there were suddenly too many fans and it wasn't a cool little club to belong in any more?

[Guest pod]

It happens in every scene. People love it when they've got their own "little club", but then they bemoan the loss of undergroundedness when their DJ or band goes to the top, or their scene is overrun by tourists. I hate tourists too, but I don't mind the money they spend. ;D

In the end it is self-destructive. If anything, I'm glad when DJs I like and know are successful.

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

Well so what I don't get is why the 'undergound' will cut loose anybody who starts to make too much money. If it's supposed to be all about the music then somebody who is passionate becoming successful should be a good thing.

Distrust of the unknown motives of people who are making lots of cash? Or envy?

I have surfed the wave of a handful of different little music fads in my life and so far each one seems to have been full of people who will only praise music that nobody has heard of. I used to hang with surfers in high school who listened to Nirvana obsessively until "Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit MTV. Then Nirvana was yesterday's news since the cheerleaders were listening to it. Same song that was so 'underground' a few months ago when we were playing it at the beach, but now it's uncool.

I have seen history repeat itself in goth, grunge, trance, breaks, whatever. Did Pearl Jam really start to suck or did they just get a record contract that was too big for their fans to respect? Or was it that there were suddenly too many fans and it wasn't a cool little club to belong in any more?

like i said earlier, i still consider sasha underground because he still loves it...and i still don't t think his intentions going into any album or making any track is to "make a lot of money" (did he really think airdrawndagger was going to make tons of $$?? don't think so...)

lawler is still underground...

i don't think it has anything to do with money. a dj/producer can still be "underground" and make money

[Guest ddg]

Well so what I don't get is why the 'undergound' will cut loose anybody who starts to make too much money. If it's supposed to be all about the music then somebody who is passionate becoming successful should be a good thing.

Distrust of the unknown motives of people who are making lots of cash? Or envy?

I have surfed the wave of a handful of different little music fads in my life and so far each one seems to have been full of people who will only praise music that nobody has heard of. I used to hang with surfers in high school who listened to Nirvana obsessively until "Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit MTV. Then Nirvana was yesterday's news since the cheerleaders were listening to it. Same song that was so 'underground' a few months ago when we were playing it at the beach, but now it's uncool.

I have seen history repeat itself in goth, grunge, trance, breaks, whatever. Did Pearl Jam really start to suck or did they just get a record contract that was too big for their fans to respect? Or was it that there were suddenly too many fans and it wasn't a cool little club to belong in any more?

pearl jam has never sucked.......true fans respect them and the music they put out....they dont give a shit if they go gold or platinum...their last album didnt go anything...and they dont give a shit..their music is still great.....and they are one of the best live bands you will ever see....

[Guest web_norah]

underground= non mainstream.

thats the bottom line!

[Guest durrtylexx]

Well so what I don't get is why the 'undergound' will cut loose anybody who starts to make too much money. If it's supposed to be all about the music then somebody who is passionate becoming successful should be a good thing.

Distrust of the unknown motives of people who are making lots of cash? Or envy?

I have surfed the wave of a handful of different little music fads in my life and so far each one seems to have been full of people who will only praise music that nobody has heard of. I used to hang with surfers in high school who listened to Nirvana obsessively until "Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit MTV. Then Nirvana was yesterday's news since the cheerleaders were listening to it. Same song that was so 'underground' a few months ago when we were playing it at the beach, but now it's uncool.

I have seen history repeat itself in goth, grunge, trance, breaks, whatever. Did Pearl Jam really start to suck or did they just get a record contract that was too big for their fans to respect? Or was it that there were suddenly too many fans and it wasn't a cool little club to belong in any more?

like i said earlier, i still consider sasha underground because he still loves it...and i still don't t think his intentions going into any album or making any track is to "make a lot of money" (did he really think airdrawndagger was going to make tons of $$?? don't think so...)

lawler is still underground...

i don't think it has anything to do with money. a dj/producer can still be "underground" and make money

I don't think that anyone that has a mix put out by GU is "underground." These guys travel the world and make six to 7 figures a year.Underground music is something that can't be found in every other record shop.

[Guest demo909]

underground= non mainstream.

thats the bottom line!

Well put. Every genre has it's own underground too

[Guest bcnjunkie]

underground= non mainstream.

thats the bottom line!

pretty much. I think back in the day it was music that was difficult to acquire and mainly available to DJ's and could only be heard at raves or not so accesible clubs like Simons during its' peak.

[Guest web_norah]

anything thats not easily acquaired at big name retail shops can be categorized as undeground .....or alternatively, music that would not get played at mainstream radio.....maybe at college radio but thats it.

[rbs]

I think underground is a term that goes back to warehouses and basement parties. These were obviously people who either could not or would not go to the mainstream clubs and hang with the "wannabe's".

To me, an underground DJ is one who still cater's to this type of gathering. Non-commercialized. For example: Tommy Lee is a "wannabe" commercial DJ. The club would have very minimal Top 40's if not any and brings artists not known to the average Joe.

Any band that does not enjoy success will be called undergound, but I know many bands that to me still play underground music even though they made it big. Green Day from Day 1 has always played the same type of music.( I have all their CD's). Rage Against the Machine. As long as they stay true to their music and not let other people decide what they should put out. Come on, everyone wants to make it big.

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

Well so what I don't get is why the 'undergound' will cut loose anybody who starts to make too much money. If it's supposed to be all about the music then somebody who is passionate becoming successful should be a good thing.

Distrust of the unknown motives of people who are making lots of cash? Or envy?

I have surfed the wave of a handful of different little music fads in my life and so far each one seems to have been full of people who will only praise music that nobody has heard of. I used to hang with surfers in high school who listened to Nirvana obsessively until "Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit MTV. Then Nirvana was yesterday's news since the cheerleaders were listening to it. Same song that was so 'underground' a few months ago when we were playing it at the beach, but now it's uncool.

I have seen history repeat itself in goth, grunge, trance, breaks, whatever. Did Pearl Jam really start to suck or did they just get a record contract that was too big for their fans to respect? Or was it that there were suddenly too many fans and it wasn't a cool little club to belong in any more?

like i said earlier, i still consider sasha underground because he still loves it...and i still don't t think his intentions going into any album or making any track is to "make a lot of money" (did he really think airdrawndagger was going to make tons of $$?? don't think so...)

lawler is still underground...

i don't think it has anything to do with money. a dj/producer can still be "underground" and make money

You can still make money and be considered underground...Like I said before.. "You don't have to live in a garbage can to be underground".....I still consider Sasha to be underground and to people like us Sasha is more a success than lets say DJ Rap (Genre difference has no bearing here) But a lot more people in the mainstream know more about DJ rap than they do of Sasha becuz DJ Rap has a Twix candy bar commercial, A Dairy Queen commmercial and a video on MTV.......More people in the mainstream know who Josh Wink is becuz of having several video's on MTV and people in the mainstream would have a better idea of who he is more than they would know who Sasha is...But again we in the underground so to speak know that Sasha is more successful finanially and ideally!!!!

[Guest endymion]

Okay, so it is about being a member of an in-the-know circle who knows about better stuff than mainstream audiences.

Here's a question then: Can an underground artist take source material from the mainstream and use it and then still call it 'underground'? Like, say, a really cool bootleg Brandy remix?