Nuclear Arms Reportedly Found In Iraq

[Guest demo909]

Obby, see, we would love nothing more than to hear a justification that actually makes sense. I'm assuming you don't have one.

Post a reason yourself.....just one justified reason is all I ask for

[Guest obby]

to steal oil

to get back at Saddam's "people" for the attempted assassination of Bush 41.

to distract from the 9/11 commission

to keep Iraqi children from flying their kites

to find an authentic recipe for beef sambusas

or...maybe just because terrorist have flocked to Iraq to fight us there. Either our soldiers fight them there, or our civilians start getting attacked here @ home. Maybe there's a bigger picture out there,,,,,,,,,then again, maybe the first reasons I gave make more sense......

We are there because the current Iraq police CAN NOT handle their security at the moment. We are there because we are at war with terrorist who take pleasure in decapitating humans in the name of God and keeping their decapitated heads in their freezers as trophies. We are their because the current Iraq president has asked us to stay there for security reasons.

Now bless me with your logic.

[Guest endymion]

The terrorists are flocking here, to attack us here. They are just smart enough to fly under the radar until closer to the election.

Their job is much easier now that we have alienated moderates all over the world. Before Iraq the terrorists were mostly extremist wackos who only had support within their own base. Now after things like Abu Ghraib it's real easy for a terrorist organization to talk a few businessmen from Africa or Asia to help them with loading some shipping containers, or acquiring materials for a large-scale subway backpack bomb attack, or all of the other things that you can do when you have people who empathize with your position and are willing to help you.

[Guest demo909]

Either our soldiers fight them there, or our civilians start getting attacked here @ home.

We are there because the current Iraq police CAN NOT handle their security at the moment. We are there because we are at war with terrorist who take pleasure in decapitating humans in the name of God and keeping their decapitated heads in their freezers as a trophies. We are their because the current Iraq president has asked us to stay there for security reasons only.

Ok here we go...1 I'm sorry to say but you have bought into the nation of fear. We will surely get attacked again at home right if we don't go bring the attack to foriegn soil first right? Well then it looks like we'll be heading to Syria, eygypt, sudia arabia, libya and more countries cause the terrorists are hiding there too. Lets just do a clean sweep while we are at it huh...Run right over northern Africa and the middle east....hmmmm wait that sounds like it happend once already in the 40's.....very erie don't you think? Lock your doors and load your guns cause you never know if a terrorist will come into your home

2 why can't Iraq police itself....because then the $$$$ from the US would stop pouring into the country. they can't handle the security cause we have fucked things up beyond repair....either we stay for decades or let them start figuring out there security issues....which is better?

3 This decapitation business is aweful....such drastic measures being taken by these rebels.....it's rebels not terrorists. Terrorist would be attacking and chopping off peoples heads here in Miami...not Iraq. But what brought on these drastic measures? since they have only started occuring in the last two months...just about a year after the war was supposedly over and we are still lingering in Iraq. whats the rebels demands before decapitation??....it's get out and leave our country!! If we all leave will there not be any more beheadings??? Leave is something we should have done a long time ago

So there's my logic. it's not about left wing or right wing anymore it's about truth and facts....both of which have been grossly miss-informed to the american public

[Guest obby]

???

[Guest JMT]

tell the Kurds that there were never any WMD.

[Guest obby]

Ok here we go...1 I'm sorry to say but you have bought into the nation of fear. We will surely get attacked again at home right if we don't go bring the attack to foriegn soil first right? Well then it looks like we'll be heading to Syria, eygypt, sudia arabia, libya and more countries cause the terrorists are hiding there too. Lets just do a clean sweep while we are at it huh...Run right over northern Africa and the middle east....hmmmm wait that sounds like it happend once already in the 40's.....very erie don't you think? Lock your doors and load your guns cause you never know if a terrorist will come into your home

2 why can't Iraq police itself....because then the $$$$ from the US would stop pouring into the country. they can't handle the security cause we have fucked things up beyond repair....either we stay for decades or let them start figuring out there security issues....which is better?

3 This decapitation business is aweful....such drastic measures being taken by these rebels.....it's rebels not terrorists. Terrorist would be attacking and chopping off peoples heads here in Miami...not Iraq. But what brought on these drastic measures? since they have only started occuring in the last two months...just about a year after the war was supposedly over and we are still lingering in Iraq. whats the rebels demands before decapitation??....it's get out and leave our country!! If we all leave will there not be any more beheadings??? Leave is something we should have done a long time ago

So there's my logic. it's not about left wing or right wing anymore it's about truth and facts....both of which have been grossly miss-informed to the american public

Now here I go:

According to the beloved 9/11 commission, congress holds the ultimate blame for failing America and world...........Congress was privy to the SAME EXACT info Bush and the admin had and all came to the same conclusion.........If it's blame that tickles one pickle,,,,,then congress is in deep doo-doo..

9/11 Panel Is Said to Sharply Fault Role of Congress

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/22/politics/22panel.html?ex=1091073600&en=3ae4ae9e8394bba8&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

[Guest demo909]

tell the Kurds that there were never any WMD.

Tell the Kurds where they got those bio-weapons from...oh thats right we sold them to Iraq...oops

[Guest endymion]

How does a congressional failure justify us invading Iraq? Your logic is starting to get really entertaining.

Why are Americans dying in Iraq right now? WHY?? You desperately want to believe that there is a reason because of your cousin but there is none.

Bush and Cheney returned a lot of favors to the people who got them elected. "The spoils system", everybody here read all about it in American history class in high school. You get elected, you get to swing favors for your friends. Like invading countries to give them access to new market opportunities during rough economic times. College kids are getting their heads blown off so that the draft dodgers that Bush went to Yale with can add zeroes to the ends of their bank account statements.

[V. Barbarino]

How does a congressional failure justify us invading Iraq? Your logic is starting to get really entertaining.

Why are Americans dying in Iraq right now? WHY?? You desperately want to believe that there is a reason because of your cousin but there is none.

Bush and Cheney returned a lot of favors to the people who got them elected. "The spoils system", everybody here read all about it in American history class in high school. You get elected, you get to swing favors for your friends. Like invading countries to give them access to new market opportunities during rough economic times. College kids are getting their heads blown off so that the draft dodgers that Bush went to Yale with can add zeroes to the ends of their bank account statements.

i would think the death of a 1000 marines had something to do with the death of 3000 of my neighbors. Bush didn't wake up and say "hey, lets get that haliburton stock over 100 next week, i'll just invade iraq"...

tech, you are in the far far far far left with moore, who has been trounced on by newsweek and other media outlets. There is a reason why kerry stays away from moore, moore is a wacko that will sink kerry.

[ryan2772]

well since halliburton received several no-bid contracts for reconstruction in iraq, your theory might be right on the money (so to speak!)

[Guest obby]

LIES?

Who has lied?

Saddam?

Clinton?

Bush?

Blair?

Demz?

Repz?

UN?

Iran?

N. Korea?

Russia?

Richard Clark?

Amb. Joseph Wilson?

Nat. Security Advisor Sandy Berger?

Did they all lie?

Where they all misled?

Did they all mislead?

Are we undermining the war on terror (which we did not start) or are we defending tyrannical leaders and terrorist sympathizers? Does anyone here have a better plan for dealing w/ terrorist/ism? Do we just keep beating ourselves to death crying "mea culpa, mea culpa" or do we worry more about understanding why terrorist hate us? Do we put understanding "terrorists hate" above defeating them? Do we play politrix w/ our national security? Do we seek a cure or a band-aid? Do we even really care? Do we trivialize the sacrifices made by our soldiers to feed our gluttonous appetite for ideological righteousness? Do we bury our heads in the sand, cross our fingers and hope for the best? Do we worry about what European socialists think about us or do we do what's needed to protect our livelihood? Have we all forgotten how we felt on 9/11? The threat is real. This enemy has been at war w/ us since 1993.

I know how I feel. Freedom ain't free. Never has been. I've personally lost a cousin in Iraq and understand the sacrifices. I'm sorry to read so many posts from people who either cannot or will not face the threat our generation has been handed. I thank God for all the sacrifices made by all Americans.

[Guest demo909]

Trounced by media outlets!! Give me a break try reading some non US based news like Reuters or ITN or WNN. Get a global perspective of the situation at hand.....american based news is a joke. They pump out senational spins and distort facts to install a sense of "we are right now matter what" feeling.

Think outside your town people think globally

[Guest demo909]

LIES?

Who has lied?

Saddam?

Clinton?

Bush?

Blair?

Demz?

Repz?

UN?

Iran?

N. Korea?

Russia?

Richard Clark?

Amb. Joseph Wilson?

Nat. Security Advisor Sandy Berger?

Did they all lie?

Where they all misled?

Did they all mislead?

Are we undermining the war on terror (which we did not start) or are we defending tyrannical leaders and terrorist sympathizers? Does anyone here have a better plan for dealing w/ terrorist/ism? Do we just keep beating ourselves to death crying "mea culpa, mea culpa" or do we worry more about understanding why terrorist hate us? Do we put understanding "terrorists hate" above defeating them? Do we play politrix w/ our national security? Do we seek a cure or a band-aid? Do we even really care? Do we trivialize the sacrifices made by our soldiers to feed our gluttonous appetite for ideological righteousness? Do we bury our heads in the sand, cross our fingers and hope for the best? Do we worry about what European socialists think about us or do we do what's needed to protect our livelihood? Have we all forgotten how we felt on 9/11? The threat is real. This enemy has been at war w/ us since 1993.

I know how I feel. Freedom ain't free. Never has been. I've personally lost a cousin in Iraq and understand the sacrifices. I'm sorry to read so many posts from people who either cannot or will not face the threat our generation has been handed. I thank God for all the sacrifices made by all Americans.

Hey while we are at it lets blame the Israeli's.....they started this whole mess right? :

[Guest endymion]

tech, you are in the far far far far left

I have never denied that I side with the left on this whole Bush/Iraq thing. I was also a registered Republican until recently. I'm not a partisan, I think for myself. In this case it's hard to end up supporting Bush if you put much thought into it.

But yes. You would hope that those thousand American troops died for some reason. Or those 12,000 Iraqi civilians. Somehow that's justified because of 3,000 dead civilians in NYC, but conservatives can't draw a line between the two no matter how desperately they need to.

Your justification, basically, is: "We were attacked, we had to attack somebody in retaliation or else we're pussies". Thousands and thousands of people died for that logic. That's wrong.

[V. Barbarino]

Trounced by media outlets!! Give me a break try reading some non US based news like Reuters or ITN or WNN. Get a global perspective of the situation at hand.....american based news is a joke. They pump out senational spins and distort facts to install a sense of "we are right now matter what" feeling.

Think outside your town people think globally

dude, newspapers are left in this country. Has been this way for decades. NY Times is hiding from Orielly right now. He put up 25 grand to go against them, and the NY Times just keeps hiding, epspecially when he catches their mistakes. 42 str8 days of that prison story. I would say ny times the #1 paper is so far left, they are in trouble. Thus when moore took a beating, it was shocking because the left media even went after him. Thats how far left he is!!!!

Foxnews has 25% of all viewers watching their news. This is unheard of! People call them far right, but reality is the media is so left that fox is viewed as being right. When they are closer to center, thought a tad tad bit to the right.

[ryan2772]

here's my take on the media:

first of all, it's a business. sponsors pay the bills of cnn. if the sponsors don't like what's being broadcasted, they'll pull their sponsorship. sponsors are usually very large organizations, that usually have some political influence. usually with the republicans. the media is not left. they try to present themselves that way to throw off the fact that they have a hand in g.w.'s pocket. exactly what happened with bill maher, the main media outlets live in a constant fear that that will happen again, to them. saying the media is left is ridiculous

[Guest endymion]

People watch Fox News because it tells them what they would like to believe.

"America is safer now"

"Your friends and family are dying in Iraq for a reason"

"Saddam looks pathetic and defeated, Bush looks strong by comparison"

"People all over the world love and envy Americans"

"Do not look behind the curtain!! There is nothing to see behind the curtain!!"

[V. Barbarino]

here's my take on the media:

first of all, it's a business. sponsors pay the bills of cnn. if the sponsors don't like what's being broadcasted, they'll pull their sponsorship. sponsors are usually very large organizations, that usually have some political influence. usually with the republicans. the media is not left. they try to present themselves that way to throw off the fact that they have a hand in g.w.'s pocket. exactly what happened with bill maher, the main media outlets live in a constant fear that that will happen again, to them. saying the media is left is ridiculous

sponsors pay based on cirulation and viewship.. get a clue dude...

[ryan2772]

also on perceived circulation/viewership ;D

[Guest obby]

Trounced by media outlets!! Give me a break try reading some non US based news like Reuters or ITN or WNN. Get a global perspective of the situation at hand.....american based news is a joke. They pump out senational spins and distort facts to install a sense of "we are right now matter what" feeling.

Think outside your town people think globally

Just for craps and giggles,,,,let's assume you're the enlightened one and we're just the sheep. NOW WHAT? This is the world as we find, NOW WHAT? Should we take a poll? My God,,,,,this logic is pathetic.

Why are you here? Stop torturing yourself and do something about it. Incoherent psycho-babble and conspiracy theories are interesting and entertaining at times, but if you really care,,,do something. What have you done?

Truth is, if you (and those like minded) only implemented as much effort into figuring out how to defeat terrorists as you do in hating Bush, we just might be much further along. What's your contribution? What's your plan? One side has got to lose before any real progress can be made. Who's side are you on?

I, for one do not assume America is perfect, but when compared to the rest of the world and history, no nation or group of people have done more for others around the world than America. When crap hits the fan in Europe, mid-east, Caribbean, etc....I don't see those countries crawling to France or Germany for help. They come to us. Can we be better? Sure. Are we the enemy? Far from it.

Stop torturing yourself Demo,,,,,if it sucks so bad,,,,just dip. America-lite(aka- Canada) is waiting. Either shit or get off the pot, but you're beginning to sound like a disgruntled housewife.......bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-bah.....................Get back to your grassy knoll.

I'm not trying to start shit here so please don't take it in that manner.

[Guest LdySphynx]

Ok i'm still pissed that I have to pay $40 every two days for gas when I used to pay $20 !!!!!

Sorry guys just trying to bring a little humor to this tense situation!!!

[Guest demo909]

But your are starting shit man. Leave the houswife shit out of this....what is that for?

I do feel more enlightened then most people in America, maybe it's that enlightenment that makes me want change in this country and to try and make a difference and a change. Thats part of being American....I have the right to feel this way it's part of my freedom which you care so deeply about.

You say that freedom isn't free right? What defines your cost? what are you doing about it besides being one of those arm-chair warriors. If you want to pay your definition of a price then head to Iraq and point your gun at someone in the name of democracy.

I believe freedom isn't free also, thats why I fight for change on the home front. I'm involved for the fight of freedom that I believe is right and that fight is here in our own country. My price for freedom is change......I'm out there at protests at rallys trying to make a difference......

what are you doing?

[Guest obby]

But your are starting shit man. Leave the houswife shit out of this....what is that for?

I do feel more enlightened then most people in America, maybe it's that enlightenment that makes me want change in this country and to try and make a difference and a change. Thats part of being American....I have the right to feel this way it's part of my freedom which you care so deeply about.

You say that freedom isn't free right? What defines your cost? what are you doing about it besides being one of those arm-chair warriors. If you want to pay your definition of a price then head to Iraq and point your gun at someone in the name of democracy.

I believe freedom isn't free also, thats why I fight for change on the home front. I'm involved for the fight of freedom that I believe is right and that fight is here in our own country. My price for freedom is change......I'm out there at protests at rallys trying to make a difference......

what are you doing?

You feel more enlightened than most? You nailed it! There's the rub man. I feel the same. I feel you've let your emotions take over logic. You feel I'm being misled. We're never going to agree.

As for doing my part, we're in the same boat. I give what little I've got to the Bush camp. My father is a 22 yr. Army veteran who served 2 tours in Vietnam. My brother served 8 yrs. in the U.S. Navy as a SAR(search and rescue) swimmer earning some medals during Gulf War 1. I was a young knucklehead back then and now regret not serving. I don't see America as the worlds greatest threat. On the contrary, I see America as the worlds greatest hope. Different times require different measures. All of these asinine arguments we post are just childish. The main thing missing here is the most important,,,,PERSPECTIVE! I too do my part as I see fit. Whether it's debating w/ those who I feel are intellectually dishonest or going to my protests. I just might see you in a future protest. We'll probably be on different sides of the barriers, but don't take it as hate. I do not feel elite or entitled to anyone. I do not assume I know what's best for all. I try to use perspective. When all I hear is Halliburton, Bush buddies, stealing oil, etc..etc...it only becomes more clear to me that some people just don't get it. They say politics is like watching sausage being made. If you see it, you'll never eat it. Politics has it's purpose and regardless where we differ, I do believe it serves it's purpose. I don't however trash this nation or it's leaders for doing the responsible thing, defending it's citizens. This prez. has not taken the easy route. He's made tough decisions under extreme circumstances. To trivialize that w/ conspiracy theories just seems counterproductive to me. Sure, it's juicier and tugs at one's heart more, but to me,,,it's PURE BULLSHIT......

so, let's just agree to disagree,,,,,sorry about the housewife reference,,,,,my bad!

[Guest endymion]

Halliburton is not a conspiracy theory. It's a real company, with real no-bid contracts in Iraq that are well documented.

JFK getting shot by space aliens is a conspiracy theory. Halliburton is current events. I haven't even seen Moore's movie, I just pay attention to current events. Moore seems like a crackpot to me too, but that doesn't eliminate the simple fact that close Bush/Cheney supporters are the only ones benefitting from Iraq.

So you're reprimanding liberals who point out that all of the justifications for war have been shot down and who point out that our fearless leaders have direct personal conflicts of interest. You do that as a footnote to a story about fabricated WMD lies. You condemn us for questioning authority and seeking truth but you do not condemn the people who are lying to you.

Some people are comforted by government propaganda. The Japanese enjoyed listening to Hirohito tell them that they were ordained to rule Asia, and they loved hearing all of the great stories about how they were winning. Made them feel good, comfortable, justified. The Germans ate up the Nazi Party propaganda that told them that they were the chosen few and that they were crushing the opposition. Both populations just ate it up.. until they lost.

An alarming number of Americans are willing to sit and watch Bush tell us "America is safer", "There was a connection", "There are WMD", "Iraq is stable now", "the military operations are over", "mission accomplished". It's so much easier to sit back and trust Dubya and hope that all is well like he's telling us than it is to take responsibility as a citizen of a democracy and think for yourself.

We laughed at the Iraqis who believed Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf when he told the Iraqis obvious lies from a desperate position. Then we go and glue ourselves in front of Fox News and let Bush do the same thing to us. He's waving his hands and pointing at Iraq while terrorists are rehearsing exactly how they are going to kill some of us here in the US this fall. Pathetic numbers of Americans just smile and talk about how much they admire his leadership as he drops the ball on protecting us.

But hey, we showed the world that we're not pussies. Just like Osama did. Go Bush.