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Guest obby

Bill O'Reilly Debates Michael Moore - Tonight @ 8:00pm on FOX

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Guest endymion

That interview is going to be an OJ Simpson trial. Everybody will see what they want to. No different than Michael Kinsley interviewing Rush Limbaugh. The interview would be fun to watch but there isn't much point to it, nobody is going to be open to new ideas in the face of that kind of polarization.

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Guest endymion

bill will argue the facts, not ideals. get a clue tech...

Thank you for verifying my hypothesis before the interview even happens.

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Guest endymion

dude, i've been watching the show for years.

And plenty of people have been watching Michael Moore movies for years. Those people will see what they want to see, you will see what you want to see. There is very little opportunity for anything productive to happen. It's like a political pro wrestling match.

I plan to skip it and use the time to continue reading some books that actually have some chance of informing me.

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Guest LeVeL

Tonight Show is definetely going to be worth seeing.......I will be tuned in.

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dude, i've been watching the show for years.

And plenty of people have been watching Michael Moore movies for years. Those people will see what they want to see, you will see what you want to see. There is very little opportunity for anything productive to happen. It's like a political pro wrestling match.

I plan to skip it and use the time to continue reading some books that actually have some chance of informing me.

you are very intelligent, Ryan.

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dude, i've been watching the show for years.

And plenty of people have been watching Michael Moore movies for years. Those people will see what they want to see, you will see what you want to see. There is very little opportunity for anything productive to happen. It's like a political pro wrestling match.

I plan to skip it and use the time to continue reading some books that actually have some chance of informing me.

ha, worried? you guys when faced head on run like rickey williams.

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dude, i've been watching the show for years.

And plenty of people have been watching Michael Moore movies for years. Those people will see what they want to see, you will see what you want to see. There is very little opportunity for anything productive to happen. It's like a political pro wrestling match.

I plan to skip it and use the time to continue reading some books that actually have some chance of informing me.

ha, worried? you guys when faced head on run like rickey williams.

why are you such an angry person? jeez

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Guest web_norah

turn off Bill and read a book ...it might do you some good!

What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America by Thomas Frank

Review taken from

Amazon.com

The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker. According to Frank, the conservative establishment has tricked Kansans, playing up the emotional touchstones of conservatism and perpetuating a sense of a vast liberal empire out to crush traditional values while barely ever discussing the Republicans' actual economic policies and what they mean to the working class. Thus the pro-life Kansas factory worker who listens to Rush Limbaugh will repeatedly vote for the party that is less likely to protect his safety, less likely to protect his job, and less likely to benefit him economically. To much of America, Kansas is an abstract, "where Dorothy wants to return. Where Superman grew up." But Frank, a native Kansan, separates reality from myth in What's the Matter with Kansas and tells the state's socio-political history from its early days as a hotbed of leftist activism to a state so entrenched in conservatism that the only political division remaining is between the moderate and more-extreme right wings of the same party. Frank, the founding editor of The Baffler and a contributor to Harper's and The Nation, knows the state and its people. He even includes his own history as a young conservative idealist turned disenchanted college Republican, and his first-hand experience, combined with a sharp wit and thorough reasoning, makes his book more credible than the elites of either the left and right who claim to understand Kansas. --John Moe

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Guest endymion

ha, worried? you guys when faced head on run like rickey williams.

Worried about WHAT? What do you think is going to happen? You think either of them is going to go "Oh gosh I'm sorry, I was wrong all this time, you have made it clear to me. I hereby reverse my position because of your compelling oratory"?

Saleen, you are watching because you expect O'Reilly to give Moore a hard time. Each point he makes you'll cheer. Norah is going to watch because she expects Moore to make some clever points. She'll be cheering those points. Neither of you will be open to anything that the guy on the 'other' side says. Tomorrow you will all be here gloating over how you think your side 'won'. Did OJ kill her or not? It depends entirely on who you ask. Same deal here, nothing productive can come out of this.

I limit my television intake to a pretty small quota ever day because I can feel myself getting stupider as I sit in front of that thing. This is not a wise use of limited television quota unless you just want to watch some drama.

And if you have so much disdain for turning tail and running when confronted then I'm curious why you and Obby have nothing to say about this. Obby grasped yesterday for a bit of ammunition to fortify a partisan position. I thought maybe it would be a better idea to actually read the report. The distinction between those two mentalities is exactly what will be happening tonight during that interview. I'll be learning something while you guys are watching for partisan sound bites that you can regurgitate.

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Guest web_norah

**getting popcorn and soda ready for this debate**

dear Techjunkie

i do listen to the other side....ie Republicans, whatever you want to name them.....the thing is, lately i've lost all respect for their tired arguments about the war, WMD, the Saudis, Sadam et al. i feel that as a US citizen i've been mislead, lied to and most of all, betrayed. i am not even taking into consideration all the economic misuse of funds going towards a senseless war.....

last week i had an interesting conversation with Maxi Jazz from Faithless, i asked him about the cover of their latest album NO ROOTS.....it is the picture of a child from Kosovo -another "war" we chose not to enter.

B00020US6E.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

i think war is wrong .....and the USA led by the Republican party got involved in this mess for the wrong reasons.....

i'll listen to the other side but at this point, they have no credibility.

with that said....i hope i clarified my point here....

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Guest web_norah

dude this Ben Affleck interview is major zzzzzzzz material

Bill O Reilly blows, switching channels...Fox stinks

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Guest r3nz0

I enjoyed the piece.

But as tech said, I don't think anyone's opinions will change because of this.

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Guest klit

Bill O'Reilly is good, but micheal moore ain't no politician or has much about him to pick on but his exaggerations in movies. So this interview was just crap talking btw them both.

I'd like to see him bring in jesse jackson or maxine waters though. Maxine esp. that girl got so much on her back.

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Guest guyman1966

I enjoyed the piece.

But as tech said, I don't think anyone's opinions will change because of this.

It changed my opinion. I'm now a huge Michael Moore fan. I love him! I'm going to burn my Republican voters card right now and then burn my underwear. He's so smart. I loved the one point he made about Bill's kid and his willingness to send him into battle. JACKASS!!! Not a living person would want to see anyone's kid die in war. But, I do believe that we saved more lives by removing Saddam. I'd like to point out that we have lost ONLY 900. In Vietnam we were sending back 500 dead Americans a month. I'm sure to the families that lost children and the solders that come home w/ injuries that will never heal 100% - its never enough and they have questions. But the facts are - everyone in the world thought this guy (Saddam) was up to no good, he did nothing to save himself (letting inspectors do their jobs).

This President (Bush) made the best decision with the information he had at the time. Michael Moore did not want to answer it, but Germany NEVER attacked us. Should we have let Hitler take all of Europe? As much as I hate EuroTrash - I'd have to say I like Europe better without Nazi's.

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the show was great! Ben held his own, and showed he's no dummy. Plus he's not a wacko and did speak against kerry.

As for moore, if you looked at it from a boxing match scoring system, for 10 rounds, Bill won 8 of them.

I respect Moore for comming on, but Bill put him in his place about Bush lieing. Moore should have admited the mistake and he was right Bush should admit it was a mistake as well.

great tv, great show, great debate that I hope people caught last night so it inspires rational debate, not norah or techjunkie bomb thrower debate.

oh, and Moore was sooooooooooo wrong on the cole war issue.

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i was glad to see o'reilly being respectful. the fact of the matter is that moore wants america to be a better place. o'reilly too. the true solution to this country's problems lies somewhere in the middle of both of these guys opinions. that's what we all need to strive for.

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Guest endymion

People saw what they wanted to see in that interview, I did watch it. They were so busy trying to get zingers in on each other that they didn't get to really say much. It was like watching Saleen and I post to this forum. Entertaining if you're in the mood for it but people pretty much decide in advance which of two sides they are on.

So since Saleen brought it up, here's my analysis. O'Reilley's biggest point that he was concerned about making was that Bush means well and that he's not a liar. He specifically wanted Michael Moore to withdraw the statement that Bush lied to the American public in order to start a war with Iraq. He repeated his premise over and over that Bush telling us that there were WMD in Iraq was a mistake, not a lie.

Saleen saw that and gloated, 'yeah, yeah, he has a point, Michael Moore looks stupid yay!' I saw that and thought, 'well that's a little silly, even if you reclassify that from "lie" to "mistake" then that's not a justification'. It was a really big mistake that he just waltzed our country directly into, for what? For himself or for the country? We're supposed to be happy after O'Reilley points out that our president isn't an evil man, he's just stupid.

O'Reilley wants his conservative audiences to think that anybody who disagrees with Bush looks like Moore, supports Moore, thinks like Moore, and roots for Moore when he acts goofy in front of cameras. I don't? Lots of moderate liberals and plenty of centrists (Bill Clinton and John Kerry included) supported the idea of military action against Iraq as a last resort. After diplomacy had definitely failed and after weapons inspections had ended so that we knew more about whether there really were WMD. O'Reilley is trying to further divide us by characterizing anybody who doesn't support Bush as a wacko nutjob far-left conspiracy theorist like Moore. Plenty of people reading this think that Bush is an arrogant, impulsive idiot with his own agenda who wasn't elected and who has no business running our country. Lots of those people laugh at the conspiracy theories about Halliburton or the Skull and Bones Club or the Saudi royal family or whatever. They still think Bush is an arrogant idiot who has no business running our country. Trying to get those people to support Moore and trying to get his conservative viewers to think that anybody voting for Kerry thinks just like Moore, that's irresponsible and divisive. O'Reilly is sitting there talking about how bad the divisions are and how we should come together behind common sense while he's sitting there trying to further divide us.

So O'Reilley ends the show by saying that no matter how much evidence you turn up, those damned liberals won't admit that Bush isn't a liar, that he just made a mistake. That was his big point that's supposed to make us vote for Bush. He's not a liar, he's just a fuckup, re-elect him cause he means well. O'Reilly doesn't mention that he is trying to have one single big lie from a very long list of very big lies reclassified from "lie" to "mistake". Even if we agree to that, Bush is still a very well-documented liar, about lots of very big things.

Regarding the Iraq and WMD lies, here is a report prepared by a government agency for Representative Henry Waxman, published on a federal government web site (www.house.gov) that details The Bush Administration's Public Statements On Iraq. Thought you might enjoy the documentation that your own government has prepared for you on the lies that your president has told you in order to get you to support the war in Iraq. Your tax dollars at work...

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