Bill O'Reilly Debates Michael Moore - Tonight @ 8:00pm on FOX

[Guest klit]

I just rewatched this and you know, oreilly definately had more points then moore.

Moore keeps pushing on about would you send your kid to war? I think this is a dumb question because who sends their kids to war? If my son wanted to go to war to secure fallujah then yeah I would tell him I am proud of him and respect his choice, but no way in hell would I be the one to force him to go. Oreilly answered moore correctly by saying I would go to war myself to secure fallujah.

Then moore has no answer about the nazis and won't admit that it was a mistake not a lie about the wmd.

Tech don't answer its cause I support bush that I saw it this way in the interview cause if I was american and would vote in this election up to now would be undecided and would wait till debates to make decision.

Only bias I may have had going into that interview is thinking micheal moore did a poor documentary in "fahrenheit 911." You wanna see a good documentary about iraq, watch "Control room." Yeah the one from al jazeera.

[ryan2772]

i saw the re-run of this interview again too. these 2 didn't talk about anything.

[V. Barbarino]

tech take off your dancing shoes.. you are spining like the rest of them.

it's not about republican or democrats etc

it's simple

was prez bush lieing? yes or no

pick one and only post your one word answer.

[Guest endymion]

was prez bush lieing? yes or no

pick one and only post your one word answer.

The Bush administration engaged in an aggressive, overt campaign of deception in order to secure the support of the American public for invading Iraq. The overwhelming pattern of misleading statements has been very well-documented by a federal agency, not by Hollywood conspiracy theorists.

Read that report and get back to me, you don't seem to have looked at it yet. It's full of documentation of misleading public statements from the entire administration. Each documented misleading statement includes an explanation as to exactly why each statement was intentionally deceptive.

For those too lazy or busy to investigate, here:

Statement by President George W. Bush:

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

Source: Interview of the President by TVP, Poland, White House (5/29/2003).

That's a "mistake" or a "lie"? If you want really badly to see something and you try so hard to see it that you convince even yourself that you're seeing it then are you lying or are you just an idiot? Which is worse? If you tell all of your subordinates to go out and not come back until they have brought you intelligence reports that support the conclusion that you have already made in your head, then again, is that a lie or are you just a moron? Either way you're not fit to be president.

Is there maybe a Poland exemption in the ethics of lying, like the area code rule in relationships? "It wasn't cheating, anything that happens in another area code isn't cheating." "It wasn't lying because anything that happens in Poland isn't lying."

[V. Barbarino]

was prez bush lieing? yes or no

pick one and only post your one word answer.

The Bush administration engaged in an aggressive, overt campaign of deception in order to secure the support of the American public for invading Iraq. The overwhelming pattern of misleading statements has been very well-documented by a federal agency, not by Hollywood conspiracy theorists.

Read that report and get back to me, you don't seem to have looked at it yet. It's full of documentation of misleading public statements from the entire administration. Each documented misleading statement includes an explanation as to exactly why each statement was intentionally deceptive.

For those too lazy or busy to investigate, here:

Statement by President George W. Bush:

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

Source: Interview of the President by TVP, Poland, White House (5/29/2003).

That's a "mistake" or a "lie"? If you want really badly to see something and you try so hard to see it that you convince even yourself that you're seeing it then are you lying or are you just an idiot? Which is worse? If you tell all of your subordinates to go out and not come back until they have brought you intelligence reports that support the conclusion that you have already made in your head, then again, is that a lie or are you just a moron? Either way you're not fit to be president.

Is there maybe a Poland exemption in the ethics of lying, like the area code rule in relationships? "It wasn't cheating, anything that happens in another area code isn't cheating." "It wasn't lying because anything that happens in Poland isn't lying."

i didn't read a word of this, i don't want the why or the how, just yes or no.. that simple, and like i said, I didn't and won't read any of this, until you post YES OR NO!

[ryan2772]

was prez bush lieing? yes or no

pick one and only post your one word answer.

The Bush administration engaged in an aggressive, overt campaign of deception in order to secure the support of the American public for invading Iraq. The overwhelming pattern of misleading statements has been very well-documented by a federal agency, not by Hollywood conspiracy theorists.

Read that report and get back to me, you don't seem to have looked at it yet. It's full of documentation of misleading public statements from the entire administration. Each documented misleading statement includes an explanation as to exactly why each statement was intentionally deceptive.

For those too lazy or busy to investigate, here:

Statement by President George W. Bush:

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

Source: Interview of the President by TVP, Poland, White House (5/29/2003).

That's a "mistake" or a "lie"? If you want really badly to see something and you try so hard to see it that you convince even yourself that you're seeing it then are you lying or are you just an idiot? Which is worse? If you tell all of your subordinates to go out and not come back until they have brought you intelligence reports that support the conclusion that you have already made in your head, then again, is that a lie or are you just a moron? Either way you're not fit to be president.

Is there maybe a Poland exemption in the ethics of lying, like the area code rule in relationships? "It wasn't cheating, anything that happens in another area code isn't cheating." "It wasn't lying because anything that happens in Poland isn't lying."

i didn't read a word of this, i don't want the why or the how, just yes or no.. that simple, and like i said, I didn't and won't read any of this, until you post YES OR NO!

ugh. for Christ's sake, there's more to the answer than yes or no.

[Guest endymion]

I have learned from watching you with Norah that you are weasely and you like to trap people into supporting statements other than the ones that they are intending to support. You're trying to get me to agree to an assertion that's currently vague. What's the question that I'm answering?

Here's my assertion:

The Bush administration engaged in an aggressive, overt campaign of deception in order to secure the support of the American public for invading Iraq. A very well-documented one.

Take a president who has already come to (false) conclusions in his head, apparently because he's impulsive and headstrong. Those conclusions happen, gee coincidence, to be very compatible with president's own business interests. That president seeks support for his conclusions by ordering his own security advisors to go and work until they are able to come back with reports that support the conclusions that he wants to see. President then uses those reports as evidence to sway American public opinion.

What is the above situation? Is that a campaign of lying or a campaign of self-delusion? A huge honest mistake that happens to accidentally play into Bush's business interests? Self-delusion extended into other-delusion? Wouldn't all of those be what we would call "misrepresentation"? "deception"? He misrepresented the facts over and over, the report that I keep linking to documents points where he represented one version of reality to the public while knowing that the facts did not support them. His entire staff assisted in a coordinated manner. I call that "lying". Not just lying but lying about very material things from a position where he personally stands to benefit.

You call that situation a "mistake", not a lie. That's fine, we'll call Bush a fuckup instead of a liar. I personally feel deceived because I was one of the Americans who was sitting there the whole time trying to figure out what was going on, how much to trust what my own government is telling me. Turns out it was all a crock of shit, so is that a lie or a huge coordinated "mistake"? If you think that he meant well but he just fucked up then whatever, your problem. If it really was an honest mistake then it was one of the biggest honest mistakes in the history of our country. I don't see how anybody could look at how he handled that situation and then re-elect him for another four years to make more huge mistakes with our money, lives, reputations, honor and safety. He has done enough damage already.

Now let's look at one of those fun ways that Saleen and Bush are similar. Saleen, you don't have any interest in reading documentation on the statements in question that people are characterizing as lies, yet you're all over talking about whether they were lies. That's kind of odd, you made up your mind without looking at the evidence? You are having a blast with your little chess game where you're trying to trap me into a statement that you can ridicule but you aren't interested in actually looking at the data. You have already decided in your head that Bush means well and that he wasn't lying and that it was an honest mistake. You and Bush both are the types of guys who think that if you just believe in something strongly enough then you can make it be true, and that if you yap about that belief loudly enough then you can bully other people into believing it too. Go and read the report on the campaign of deception or else this whole conversation is just a pointless flame war.

[V. Barbarino]

I still didn't read it.

yes or no, dancing and spining not permitted.

just pick one, you don't even have to tell me why you choose your answer, just pick one.

[Guest endymion]

All you're concerned about is trying to trap me into something. The actual facts are so peripheral to you that you won't even read the report, that's ironic but the sad kind, not the funny kind. You won't even tell me what question I'm supposed to be giving you a simple yes or no answer to because you aren't seeking truth, you're just playing a little politics debate chess match and you have some little coup de grace move that you're trying to set me up for. I have repeated an assertion twice that I will repeat again:

The Bush administration engaged in an aggressive, over campaign of deception in order to secure the support of the American public for invading Iraq. A very well-documented one.

Another fun way that Saleen and Bush are similar is that they both think that the world is simple. Black or white. Good or evil. Yes or no. The quagmire in Iraq is proof to the contrary. Pretending that you can use John Wayne movies to make global policy decisions is sheer idiocy.

[V. Barbarino]

still didn't read it.

did prez bush lie to the american people? yes or no

yes: he knew that they were not there, but told us they were

no: he was told they were there, but it was a mistake

thats your answers, yes or no. choose one.

only post one word.

[Guest LeVeL]

yes

[ryan2772]

bill o'reilly is on the cover of Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

[Guest web_norah]

bill o'reilly is on the cover of Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

Bill O Reilly and Fox news are totally biased.

[Guest guyman1966]

bill o'reilly is on the cover of Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

Bill O Reilly and Fox news are totally biased.

:

[Guest endymion]

thats your answers, yes or no. choose one.

only post one word.

You really think that the world is either black or white? Good or evil? Yes or no?

Bush told us that he was certain that he knew what was going on and that we had to get in line behind him to save our own skins. Regardless of whether the "Saddam is an imminent threat" part was a lie, the part about it being a certainty was definitely a lie.

I also object to the term "a lie". It was an endless series of deceptive misrepresentations. If you really want to talk about it then we should be discussing "lies", not "a lie".

Anyway, Saleen, I remember just like you do the part at the end where O'Reilley said 'no matter how much evidence you present, these liberals will never admit that Bush did not lie'. What's going on here is I'm presenting evidence to you, documenting the lies. I'm not trying to force you to 'admit' that Bush lied about anything. You're welcome to your uninformed opinion but I don't think that your hero O'Reilley would have much respect for your methods.

You don't see the irony behind you trying to take O'Reilley's lead regarding presenting evidence to people and having them ignore it because of their partisan prejudice? You're ignoring the evidence and blindly pushing along partisan lines in order to try to get me to 'admit' to ignoring evidence and blindly pushing along partisan lines? Nobody else sees the irony in this?

[V. Barbarino]

see, i did read some of that, however mr anti bush aka mr farenheight 911, didn't provide one piece of evidence to support his claim bush lied. the question is why? how can the #1 expert not know the facts to back up his assertion on orielly? he was given a chance but didn't have any thing to say.

if moore doesn't know, then it dosen't exsit since he is the anti bush mesiah to you wackos.

[Guest Abraham Abromowitz]

if moore doesn't know, then it dosen't exsit since he is the anti bush mesiah to you wackos.

The word "Mesiah" is really spelled MESSIAH and is the promised deliverer of the Jewish People. I hardly see the connection between Michael Moore, Jews and Bush.

[Guest r3nz0]

Now we're throwing religion into the mix.

I'm sure everyone will agree on everything now. ;D

[V. Barbarino]

if moore doesn't know, then it dosen't exsit since he is the anti bush mesiah to you wackos.

The word "Mesiah" is really spelled MESSIAH and is the promised deliverer of the Jewish People. I hardly see the connection between Michael Moore, Jews and Bush.

all the jews took 9/11 off from work, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[ryan2772]

if moore doesn't know, then it dosen't exsit since he is the anti bush mesiah to you wackos.

The word "Mesiah" is really spelled MESSIAH and is the promised deliverer of the Jewish People. I hardly see the connection between Michael Moore, Jews and Bush.

all the jews took 9/11 off from work, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hahahahaha

i heard that too....

[Guest endymion]

see, i did read some of that, however mr anti bush aka mr farenheight 911, didn't provide one piece of evidence to support his claim bush lied.

I am presenting you with a federal government report full of many pieces of that evidence.

You are so eager to rip into Michael Moore that you aren't listening to O'Reilley telling you to examine the evidence and form your own opinion. That's just fascinating. I'm not a Michael Moore fan. I finally did see his movie yesterday and I happened to spot a misleading statement. If your goal here is to try to paint me as a zealot Michael Moore supporter then you're off target. I think for myself. I don't think that President Bush is a liar because Michael Moore told me to think that. I think that President Bush is a liar because I was one of the people who he was lying to and unfortunately for him lots of people like me noticed that he was lying when he was hoping that we wouldn't.

You beg for 'one shred' of evidence. I hand it to you. You continue to babble about Michael Moore instead of reading it. See, the thing is, Michael Moore is not the issue at hand. The Bush administration is. I could give a rat's ass about what Michael Moore says on television, what I do get upset about is my own president lying to me. You wanted documentation, Congressman Waxman has used your tax dollars to give it to you. Read it before babbling in public about it.

Or was that not what this was about?

[Guest klit]

bill o'reilly is on the cover of Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

Bill O Reilly and Fox news are totally biased.

Which news station isn't? Everything you read or watch on tv is slanted one way.

[V. Barbarino]

tech, sorry, I'm back to not reading your blather. spin spin and more spin, Keep on dancing brother, rock on!

yes or no

[Guest klit]

All politicians lie and if you do research you'll be able to proove every single president is a liar. The question is did bush lie in his reason for going to war or was that a mistake?

I say it was a mistake because he was informed by credible sources that iraq had wmd. I know he also recieved intel saying no wmd, but with his history with iraq and feeling attacked after september 11th its understandable he chose to believe that iraq had wmd esp. after so many reliable sources told him so.

[V. Barbarino]

All politicians lie and if you do research you'll be able to proove every single president is a liar. The question is did bush lie in his reason for going to war or was that a mistake?

I say it was a mistake because he was informed by credible sources that iraq had wmd. I know he also recieved intel saying no wmd, but with his history with iraq and feeling attacked after september 11th its understandable he chose to believe that iraq had wmd esp. after so many reliable sources told him so.

dude, nice post, very level headed. no spin, no dancing.