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Guest slamminshaun

Who pays taxes in the U.S.?

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Guest slamminshaun

According to the IRS's website, the top 50% wage earners in the U.S. pay over 96% of the taxes. The top 1%? They already pay over 1/3 of the taxes in the U.S. So, of all the taxes paid in the U.S., the people in the top 1% incomes, pay over 33% of all the taxes.

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in01ts.xls

And here I thought it was the middle-class and poor people paying it all.....

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Guest slamminshaun

I think the point I'm trying to make is more of a moral issue. Is it right to punish success or encourage it? Who's business is it to say that because of your achievments, we are going to punish you? Politically, its easy to sock it to them because they only make up 1% of the voting public. I don't see why 1% of the population should carry over 33% of the government's financial burden.

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Guest endymion

define the top 1% and you'll understand why you are wrong..

Yet again I agree with Saleen.

[goose bumps rise]

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Guest slamminshaun

Pod is correct, however, the slick U.S. goverment found a way to pass the income tax to fund the Spanish-American war. The U.S. was told it would be temporary and retracted once the war was over. Are we still at war with Spain?

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Guest endymion

You guys are using simple numbers to confuse a complex issue. The real issue is not the total number of dollars in the federal budget and who put them there, the real issue is the ability of various brackets to pay.

During good economic times rich people are jumping on business opportunities left and right in order to get more rich. During these times poor people barely scrape by, most go into long-term debt, making them wage slaves indentured to the rich 1%.

During recessions, rich people are jumping on business opportunities left and right in order to get more rich. Interest rates have to be lowered to keep the middle class from falling below the poverty line. Poor people still barely scrape by, most go even further into debt. The rich 1% literally buys up the lives of the poverty class by allowing them to go further into debt. The rich purchase cheap mortgages on real estate during shitty times when interest rates are good for buying (I'm about to lock in a fixed mortgage at %5.? yay!) and then the middle and lower classes get even poorer when they rent that real estate from rich people or when they buy on a less relaxed schedule at higher interest rates.

The issue is who can afford to pay and why, not who is generating more money for the federal government. The issue is what does it do to our society to put the tax burden on this group of people or that group of poeple? The idea is to spur economic growth right?

Did I really need my tax break this year, did it matter to me? A couple of thousand dollars when I have no debt, no credit card payments, no car loan, and money sitting in the bank because I'm an established business owner? No, I bought toys with it, and I didn't hire any new employees. People who don't need tax breaks need to shoulder the tax burden so that people who are paying rent and credit card payments and car loans and student loan payments can pull just a little further out of their debt servitude to the 1% richest ruling class.

Shaun, just to be clear, that richest 1% is what we call the "ruling class". They are well above the "upper class". That richest 1% is the class of people who own you right now. They hold all of your debt and they make all of the important decisions for you about what opportunities you have in life. I don't understand why you feel sorry for them unless you yourself happen to be very well off.

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I guess the question is - who can best spend your money?

Tax dollars get spent by bulky government bureaucracy. Hopefully they get directed towards the appropriate causes...

Tax savings get spent on goods and services that give people jobs (sales, manufacturing, marketing, etc.)

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if the tax rate on those 1% goes any higher it is no longer a tax bracket but rather income redistribution.

However in Techs arguement, he makes it seem these 1% of people are evil. Fact remains, they invest billions into stocks which spurs development and creates jobs, they also own and start companies from scartch, aka Daniel Snyer, Micheal Dell, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozneack (sp) etc. They were not inheritence babies like Trump. But even with that being said, Trump creats jobs, and inovation and construction etc.

While the 1% could be taxed 50%, it wouldn't hurt them, but you shouldn't be penalized for being succesful, nor should we assume all poor poeple are poor by being unlucky. Poor people have kids out of wed lock, commit crimes, they don't go to school etc. They put themselves in that position, while some are hard working people who just got shafted on life, the vast majority are responsible for their problems.

Tech almost borders on socialism while I'm all for self reliance and self responsiblity.

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Guest slamminshaun

I don't feel sorry for anybody, especially the rich. Again, who's business is it to decide that 1% of the population bears 33% of the burden? It is a matter of where its coming from. Do the rich get 33% more benefit from government services then everyone else? I think we should encourage investment and savings....not penalize it. Finally, nobody "owns" me. I don't buy into the "ruling class" propoganda. I could care less how rich Bill Gates or Warren Buffet are. They don't make my life decisions. Does the bank decide if I get the mortgage or not? Yes. But, do I decide whether I want to keep my credit intact to be approved for it....yes. It all comes back on the individual.

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Guest endymion

Tech almost borders on socialism while I'm all for self reliance and self responsiblity.

Hell no! I was a registered Republican until 2000. I am a hard-core fiscal conservative. I skirted the pitfalls of debt and now I'm free and I like how the system is stacked in my favor now. I don't want to pay higher taxes.

I'm still voting for Kerry because $135,000,000,000 worth of tax dollars, many of which were originally mine, went toward creating a bunch of new oil fields for that rischest 1% of our country. Kerry's position is that right or wrong, those people now need to get stuck with the bill. I agree.

Shaun, if you have debt then a concentration of rich guys own a percentage of you. Simple objective fact, that's just how it works in a capitalist system. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and if there is enough government regulation then a middle class might form. That's how it works.

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Guest endymion

Because they can't afford to buy stuff, so they let rich people buy it for them. For a fee. Rich people get richer, people who can't afford to buy things get poorer.

There is a reason why Jesus had it in for money lenders. Get it?

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Guest slamminshaun

Well, I don't agree. Nobody owns me. In the past two years, I've gone from making a modest living and renting a room, to owning a home on a 1/2 acre lot and Vice President of a major bank's mortgage division. I chose to do this....nobody granted my wishes like some kind of genie. Hard work, determination, and the belief in self-reliance and less government intrusion lead me to where I am thus far, not the belief that the rich are out to get me, or that the government knows what's best for me. I worked part-time to pay for my bachelor's degree never receiving any financial aid (my skin color had everything to do with it). Did I complain or blame the rich? Never. I worked hard and stayed the course.....although I'm not a millionaire yet, I do plan on getting there and I don't think its big brother's right to take what I've earned. Whether I can afford it or not, who's business is that? I've earned it. That's the American dream.

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Guest JMT

Because they can't afford to buy stuff, so they let rich people buy it for them. For a fee. Rich people get richer, people who can't afford to buy things get poorer.

There is a reason why Jesus had it in for money lenders. Get it?

and the companies (banks) arent owed by any individuals. they are "owned" by regular people walking down the street.

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Guest slamminshaun

Because they can't afford to buy stuff, so they let rich people buy it for them. For a fee. Rich people get richer, people who can't afford to buy things get poorer.

There is a reason why Jesus had it in for money lenders. Get it?

And as VP of a bank, I can assure you, rich people use the philosophy of OPM, that is, Other People's Money. The rich have more debt per dollar earned, then poor people. You'll just have to trust my professional wisdom on this one. Most doctors have debt ratio's of 60-70%, but if you're making $10,000/month, that leaves $3,000 left over as disposable income. Take the guy who's earning $3,000/month. With the same debt ratio, he only has 900.00 left over which is not really enough to pay for food, etc. The point is this: Rich people hold more debt then poor people.

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Guest endymion

...and Vice President of a major bank's mortgage division.

How much do your bank's mortgage customers pay in the long run for the houses that you are kind enough to buy for them and let them make payments on?

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Guest pod

OK to turn this interesting, what do you guys think about:

A) A flat tax. Say everyone in the country has to fork over 17% (proposed figure) of their income as tax?

B) No income tax, higher taxation on goods and services...

C) Suggest your own idea to eliminate the IRS and income tax?

I'm not in favor of income tax by any means. What little I earn I like to keep. When I earn a lot, I'd like to keep that too. I'm not a big proponent of social welfare really, since most people have dug their own hole so to speak. Hell, I'm not the richest guy in the world right now. Who do I have to blame? Myself. I'm terrible with numbers and have made bad financial decisions. I don't expect a handout really. However, if an income tax is is really needed, a flat tax would work quite well. 17% of Larry Ellison's income is quite a lot after all.

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Guest JMT

OK to turn this interesting, what do you guys think about:

A) A flat tax. Say everyone in the country has to fork over 17% (proposed figure) of their income as tax?

theoretically i think this sounds great. but years ago i was told by people, who have prob forgotten more about finance than i might ever know (sucesssful CPAs, CFAs etc), that it will never work and would be a disaster.

:-\

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