Who pays taxes in the U.S.?

[Guest JMT]

Regular people pay LESS interest then rich people!!!

Regular people and poor people pay fewer dollars in total in interest but more interest per dollar of net value. That's a critical distinction.

5% of one dollar is 5% of one dollar whether you're poor or rich.

What poor guy pays 5% APR on his life? Poor people are more likely to be paying off 18% credit card debts than they are to be paying 5% mortgages.

POOR has nothing to do with it for the 1000th time.

its bad financial decisions that reflect negatively on a persons credit score.

your points are just smoke and mirrors to the real issue.

[Guest endymion]

Poor people have a harder time getting good deals on credit than rich people from the beginning, regardless of how bright they are. The system is stacked against them even if they are smart, fiscally conservative poor people. It is flat-out not possible for a person with poverty-line income to end up with a 750 FICO score.

[Guest slamminshaun]

Regular people pay LESS interest then rich people!!!

Regular people and poor people pay fewer dollars in total in interest but more interest per dollar of net value. That's a critical distinction.

5% of one dollar is 5% of one dollar whether you're poor or rich.

What poor guy pays 5% APR on his life?

If you have debt in the first place then your FICO score is lower. You don't get to an 820 by having debt on your books.

If you have one house and you're trying to make your way to the next then you have to sell and buy at the same time and you have fewer options.

My, my...where should i start? Regarding question number one....send me a poor guy, and I promise I can give him a 5% APR if he wants it. I can give him a 5.75% APR fixed for 30 years. What would the rich guy get? 5.75% for 30 years. Number two, you're right.... you do NOT get an 820 FICO by having debt on your books, but what bank requires an 820 FICO? Banks offer the same rates to people with a 620 FICO as they do an 820 FICO. It makes NO difference!! Make sure the house is within your means, and your ok. As far as rich folks having more options, of course they do. They're rich. They have the option to pay cash (but never do). But it does not mean that non-rich people can't get housing or cars at the same rates rich folks do. They just buy less expensive houses and cars then their rich counterparts....so what....I thought the argument earlier is that the poor get poorer and that mortgages only help the rich get richer.

I can't pound home enough the fact that two years ago, I started with $8,000 and a $10/hr job. Bought the house, used the bank's money to flip some land.....and voila...I could now pay off my mortgage. Am I rich? Nope. Was I poor? Yep. How did I escape being poor? By using the little credit I built up to gain access to the same rates rich folks get, and to invest and save wisely. I could've spent my money on rims and sneakers and booze, but CHOSE not to. Unforunately, many Americans have champaigne taste, but a beer budget.

[Guest JMT]

i was under the impression there is no income factor on a credit report, and ive looked at quite a few.

you assume that all poor people want to do it live beyond their means and cant manage their money properly.

and that is the core of the problem.

[Guest slamminshaun]

Poor people have a harder time getting good deals on credit than rich people from the beginning, regardless of how bright they are. The system is stacked against them even if they are smart, fiscally conservative poor people. It is flat-out not possible for a person with poverty-line income to end up with a 750 FICO score.

Incorrect. If all you have is three department store credit cards with small limits paid in full for one year, you will have a 750 FICO. Poor people can do this easily and I see it all the time.

[Guest endymion]

Low income leads to increased debt burden which leads to credit problems. You guys are doing ivory tower math as people who have money.

Shaun, I did the same thing as you basically. So did my wife. Why are stories like ours so rare? Why do mortgage lenders' eyes bug out of their heads when they look up my credit score and see the zero debt detail? It isn't hard if you just know what you need to do, but people are CONSTANTLY bombarded by offers from lenders that encourage people to borrow money to the absolute limits of their ability to pay. That leads to unwise personal finance decisions and any mistake on the part of the poor borrower leads to the rich lender getting richer and the borrower sliding further into debt. Lenders encourage people to buy into the notion that borrowing to the limit of your ability to pay is the real way to attain the American Dream. When they are successful at fooling people, rich people get richer and poor people get poorer.

[Guest JMT]

.... That leads to unwise personal finance decisions and any mistake on the part of the poor borrower leads to the rich lender getting richer and the borrower sliding further into debt...

HOOORAY!!!!!!!

[Guest endymion]

Your argument, with all seriousness, is that poor people are poor because they are stupid. A true Republican attitude.

[Guest web_norah]

Your argument, with all seriousness, is that poor people are poor because they are stupid. A true Republican attitude.

thanks i was trying to write a nice way of saying that....but you worded it with a kind approach.

[tgibson]

It is equally stupid to have no debt...especially with rates being where they have been. Any investments made with cash could realize much better returns by using available debt.

[Guest web_norah]

so having no debt makes me stupid ???

[Guest JMT]

Your argument, with all seriousness, is that poor people are poor because they are stupid. A true Republican attitude.

not at all, they usually get trapped the way you describe bc they make bad finance decisions. still no reason to tax 200k more.

[Guest endymion]

It is equally stupid to have no debt...especially with rates being where they have been. Any investments made with cash could realize much better returns by using available debt.

Correct, which is why I'm about to take out a mortgage at a great rate on a place that I should be able to sell in a couple of years for a six-figure profit. I have this option because I can buy whenever I want, like now for example. If my credit rating were lower then my rate would be higher and I make less money. If I couldn't afford to close the deal then I don't have the opportunity either.

The lenders attached to my building are trying as hard as they can to put people into mortgages on the units. 100% interest loans, ARMs that are obviously going to go up soon and price people out of their mortgages, funky deals with two mortgages on one sale at different interest rates for people who can't afford 20% down, etc, etc, etc. I would lose a lot of money on the same deal if I were one of those people and I took that deal. They are pushing HARD to get these people on the hook for condos that they can't afford.

Rich people get richer, poor people get poorer. Take your hands off of the system and that's what naturally happens.

[Guest slamminshaun]

Why are stories like ours so rare? Why do mortgage lenders' eyes bug out of their heads when they look up my credit score and see the zero debt detail?

Because its easier to not work hard and goof off. Plain and simple. You didn't know this, but I've already put you on my junk mail and telemarketing list at the bank....820 FICO? Hell yeah!! Why are they pulling your credit in the first place if you're staying out of debt? Hmm..??

For first-time mortgage borrowers, they are required to attend a two-day class that explains credit, mortgages, credit cards, and money. Although this is a valiant effort, it is not nearly enough. Education from the beginning is the key. Personal Finance should be as fundamental a subject in school as history, english, and science. But its not....if it were, many of the challenges for poor folks would be overcome. It was for me, but as I pointed out in the other thread, this is what I went to school for. So, yes, naturally I have a better understanding of how money works and its easy to see why I've escaped my prior surroundings. I think everyone else should to. If you educate the poor people with finance, there's no reason and no excuse not to overcome economic disparity. I don't define compassion for the poor by giving them anything other then the tools they need to stick their middle fingers up at the rich and do it on their own.

[tgibson]

so having no debt makes me stupid ???

I don't think I am in a position to call anyone stupid...apologies if you thought that.

All I meant to say is that (over-simplified) if you can borrow at 5% and invest at a higher rate (stocks, real estate, etc.), you should.

[Guest JMT]

It is equally stupid to have no debt...especially with rates being where they have been. Any investments made with cash could realize much better returns by using available debt.

The lenders attached to my building are trying as hard as they can to put people into mortgages on the units. 100% interest loans, ARMs that are obviously going to go up soon and price people out of their mortgages, funky deals with two mortgages on one sale at different interest rates for people who can't afford 20% down, etc, etc, etc. I would lose a lot of money on the same deal if I were one of those people and I took that deal. They are pushing HARD to get these people on the hook for condos that they can't afford.

you dont know much about mortgages. all of that is missinformation. ill explain when i get time.

[Guest web_norah]

i pay cash.

[Guest endymion]

you dont know much about mortgages. all of that is missinformation. ill explain when i get time.

?? It's called predatory lending. It's a way for rich people to soak poor people for more money. Even 'fair' ending results in people who have money making more money off of people who have less money. That's the issue. That's why progressive taxation makes sense.

[Guest slamminshaun]

It is equally stupid to have no debt...especially with rates being where they have been. Any investments made with cash could realize much better returns by using available debt.

The lenders attached to my building are trying as hard as they can to put people into mortgages on the units. 100% interest loans, ARMs that are obviously going to go up soon and price people out of their mortgages, funky deals with two mortgages on one sale at different interest rates for people who can't afford 20% down, etc, etc, etc.

These loans are meant for savvy investors and should NOT be sold to those that do not understand its implications. No institution specifially targets poor people with these loans. Loan officers might, but they are not acting on behalf of the organization they represent. They can get into big trouble with the banking commissioner of Florida for offering complicated products to uneducated borrowers. If you ever see this practice, report it immediately. Just goes to show, there are safeguards in place against certain types of predatory lending.

[Guest endymion]

JMT, that's a nice fantasy and all, but in the real world everybody really is out to fuck you.

[tgibson]

JMT, that's a nice fantasy and all, but in the real world everybody really is out to fuck you.

I'm glad this thread is done.

[Guest slamminshaun]

JMT, that's a nice fantasy and all, but in the real world everybody really is out to fuck you.

I'm glad this thread is done.

ding ding ding ding ding....haha

[Guest JMT]

you dont know much about mortgages. all of that is missinformation. ill explain when i get time.

?? It's called predatory lending. It's a way for rich people to soak poor people for more money. Even 'fair' ending results in people who have money making more money off of people who have less money. That's the issue. That's why progressive taxation makes sense.

you are spouting nonsense in the hopes to baffle with bullshit. ive been in the industry. i know those vehicles. you are looney.

[Guest JMT]

It is equally stupid to have no debt...especially with rates being where they have been. Any investments made with cash could realize much better returns by using available debt.

The lenders attached to my building are trying as hard as they can to put people into mortgages on the units. 100% interest loans, ARMs that are obviously going to go up soon and price people out of their mortgages, funky deals with two mortgages on one sale at different interest rates for people who can't afford 20% down, etc, etc, etc.

These loans are meant for savvy investors and should NOT be sold to those that do not understand its implications. No institution specifially targets poor people with these loans. Loan officers might, but they are not acting on behalf of the organization they represent. They can get into big trouble with the banking commissioner of Florida for offering complicated products to uneducated borrowers. If you ever see this practice, report it immediately. Just goes to show, there are safeguards in place against certain types of predatory lending.

you saved me the effort.

[Guest slamminshaun]

almost there...