Economic reasons NOT to vote for Kerry...

[Guest DJ MartyR]

Some perspective from a keen financial advisor I know from the web...enjoy and ponder...

"....small business growth is the answer. Unfortunately John Kerrys tax roll backs are going to hit them hard. Kerry said the rollbacks of tax cuts will only be for those with income over $200k per year. When he says that, and refers to it only effecting in that room Himself, Bush & the moderator, what he is trying to paint a picture of is the Mainline lawyer earning $500k in salary, with the trophy wife who wont be able to buy a new beachhouse. And that may be true, but it is effecting many more then that, specifically the small business owner. How ? Bush mention it last night, that most small business (small business is usually referring to those with less than $50 Mil a year in sales & 25 to 1000 employees) are Pass through entities (either LLC or S Corps), and he is absolutely right. What does this mean ? It means that if an individual or couple own a business, and that business has net income of $300,000, that income is not taxed on a Corporate tax return, it is directly added to the income on your own personal return, even if the money stays in the business and you never receive it. How do these rollbacks hurt the small business owner ? It is stunting their growth, because they have to pay themselves a dividend to pay Kerrys higher taxes on that money. These aren't rich people, these are people who keep their money in their business to grow it, they drive Hondas and live in split-level houses. You are going to slow the growth process by rolling back these taxes, because these business owners are going to have less money each year to reinvest in expansion of their business.

Kerrys rollbacks ONLY (as he says) effect those earning (not receiving) over $200k per year, well that's the small business owner !! I don't think either candidate when they refer to small business were referring to the record shop owner or corner store owner who employee 3 people. That isn't growing the economy. Some liberals will argue that if you are a small business owner, and your company earns $200k or more, that you are wealthy, and deserve higher taxes. Well, when was the last time any of you worked for a poor man ?

Why doesn't Kerry want you to know all this about how S-Corps & LLCs work ? Because then it would be completely obvious that business growth (translating into job growth) would be hurt by it. Rather then giving people social programs and lower taxes for the poor, create a job for them by helping the small businesses create them through expansion.

To give some of you an example most of you can relate to. The city of Philadelphia has the absolute worst taxing authority in the entire US. How many of the companies you work for were once located in City ? probably alot. What is the main reason they leave ? It's not Septa, parking, office space costs, its the fucked up Tax structure in the City. The city is the only place around that i know of that taxes you on a percentage of your Sales, even if you have a net loss. Why would you tax a business when they had a tough year and lost money ? Why would you tax a business that is struggling to keep people employeed in a branch office in philly ? To justify it, you know what the tax is called "The Business Privledge Tax" . I guess because they look at it as a privledge to be in the city in the first place. Office Space in KOP, Cherry HIll, Conshy is actually more expensive now per Sq Ft....

....after dealing with this for 10 years as a career, it's something I know alot about, alot that John Kerry doesn't want you to know, and something Bush doesn't have the time to explain in a debate.

What Kerry should have done is made the earnings threshold for the rollback much higher, but he couldn't, because then he'd really be unable to pay for all his social programs.

[Guest DJ MartyR]

Some more perspective from the same person...

'as far as' "....the 'horrible' economy we slipped into after 9/11 attacks, yea, and how did Bush respond to that, to get businesses to invest in new equipment, he instituted a tax incentive for business to add new equipment by giving them a 50% depreciation bonus deduction in the first year to ease their tax burden, and use that money to buy the equipment. This has also added to our fiscal deficit, but it is merely a timing difference. Instead of having to spread the depreciation deduction over 5 or 7 years, those business owners are getting 50% of it up front. Later down the road, they won't have any depreciation to deduct, thus raising their tax liability. On top of that, Greenspan brought Interest rates down to the lowest levels in history. All of that helped bring about the quickest turn around in a recession most of us will ever see.

Kerry and Bush's tax rates & incentives for the lower/middle class will remain the same, no matter who is in office, neither want a rollback for the people earning under $200k. The difference is that Kerry thinks that the rollbacks he is suggesting will help fund his healthcare & other social programs.

I live in So. Jersey, and I can not believe how many medical campuses are popping up here, way too many to be supported by NJ residents. Many are doctors moving their offices from the Philadelphia metro area in PA, to NJ, because the malpractice insurance premiums in NJ are much lower. Kerry will tell you that bogus lawsuits are not the cause of high healthcare costs. Well, then why the hell are doctors moving their practices across state lines if it isn't that significant ? Truth is, Kerry & Edwards are protecting the trial lawyers, many of whom are congressmen or friends of congressmen, and have not voted for legislation to curb it.

[Guest endymion]

What does this mean ? It means that if an individual or couple own a business, and that business has net income of $300,000 ...

Guess what? Those people are rich. Those people, yes, are the ones who Kerry is suggesting should shoulder the tax burden necessary to get our asses out of the $130,000,000,000 hole that Bush got us into.

I own various percentages of various different S-Corps and LLCs so I'm more able to detect the bullshit that you're spewing. If all of my interests in all of the companies that flow through to me result in a $300k 1040 statement then guess what? I'm rich. Tax me.

[Guest pod]

And that is why I am already looking into tax shelters. I make very little right now, but I am kinda ticked that the more I make, the more I am taxed. My friend owns a professional sound reinforcement firm out in Colorado, and has to pay over $30,000 in taxes this year based on his earnings and so forth. That is nothing compared to how even more successful people get taxed.

But with that in mind, I have a few documents bookmarked for further reading on tax shelters.

[Guest slamminshaun]

The top 1% income earners already pay bear over 33% of the burden!! Source: IRS.gov

[Guest endymion]

Shaun, do you really not realize who those 1% are?

Here's a hint: they just invaded a country so that they could get even richer.

[Guest DJ MartyR]

I fall into the 200k + catagory and I would be greatly affected by a democratic economic doctrine. I opened my business in the Clinton years and let me tell you that was no walk through the park. The past two years of Bushs' administration I've been able to save roughly 10-15% more on my quarterlys, and I get rebates from the government on new equiptment I buy for my business, that I def. didn't get during the clinton years. I could only claim it as an re-investment, which clinton taxed me on that to. Now I get the full claim AND a rebate. Though I wouldn't consider myself rich, however I will tell you the money I have gotten back on rebates for reinvesting in my business has directly influenced the expansion of my business which in turn has led to the hiring of 3 new employees in the past 6 months. That's a whole crew of people doing more billable work for my company. They're making money, I'm making money, and my clients are recieving a fair service for thier dollars spent.

[Guest web_norah]

200K isnt rich? i wouldnt consider it middle class for sure.

[Guest slamminshaun]

200K isnt rich? i wouldnt consider it middle class for sure.

$200K gross revenues for a business is definitely not rich. Many businessmen file under S-Corporations. Just b/c your business has gross revenues in excess of $200K, doesn't mean that is what the business owner pays himself out of the business. Your average auto mechanic shop grosses more then this.

[Guest endymion]

Receipts does not equal taxable income. If you really just made that mistake then kindly excuse yourself from this entire discussion as you are nowhere near qualified to participate.

A guy with $200k in yearly taxable income from his S-Corps and LLCs is rich and should be taxed heavily.

[Guest JMT]

i was under the impression that this plan applies to ALL small businesses with 200k in operating PROFIT, which doesnt translate to income.

[Guest web_norah]

ding, ding! if you think 200K in income isnt rich, something is seriously wrong.

[Guest JMT]

ding, ding! if you think 200K in income isnt rich, something is seriously wrong.

hey einstein,

NEWSFLASH: COMPANY PROFIT DOESNT EQUAL INCOME

and no, i dont. i think $1 million in income is rich.

[Guest web_norah]

A guy with $200k in yearly taxable income from his S-Corps and LLCs is rich.

[Guest obby]

What does this mean ? It means that if an individual or couple own a business, and that business has net income of $300,000 ...

Guess what? Those people are rich. Those people, yes, are the ones who Kerry is suggesting should shoulder the tax burden necessary to get our asses out of the $130,000,000,000 hole that Bush got us into.

Not for nothing but.....I am not rich (in heart maybe ;D ) but I try to put myself in the riches shoes now and I can only imagine that it must be frustrating to think that after working years of hard work to be where you are at......to now be taxed just for the mere fact that you made it ???????

Sorry doesn't make sense to me. Are all rich people in the US rich because Grandma left them a nice check ???? NO !!!!!!

Allot of American work their ass off to be where they are today !!!!!!!!!

Just doesn't make sense to me !!!!!

[Guest JMT]

A guy with $200k in yearly taxable income from his S-Corps and LLCs is rich.

you obviously dont know your ass from a checkbook.

COMPANY PROFIT IS NOT AN INDIVIDUAL'S INCOME

[Guest JMT]

What does this mean ? It means that if an individual or couple own a business, and that business has net income of $300,000 ...

Guess what? Those people are rich. Those people, yes, are the ones who Kerry is suggesting should shoulder the tax burden necessary to get our asses out of the $130,000,000,000 hole that Bush got us into.

Allot of American work their ass off to be where they are today !!!!!!!!!

Just doesn't make sense to me !!!!!

that about sums it up.

[Guest endymion]

JMT, "taxable income" is the term in question. An S-Corp's taxable income is revenue minus expenses, also known as "profit". That taxable income flows through via the S-Corp's 1120S return to the individual's 1040.

If my S-Corp makes $400k in a year and I spend $200k to make that $400k then my S-Corp ends up with $200k in taxable income. Which I submit would make me rich.

[Guest JMT]

JMT, "taxable income" is the term in question. An S-Corp's taxable income is revenue minus expenses, also known as "profit". That taxable income flows through via the S-Corp's 1120S return to the individual's 1040.

If my S-Corp makes $400k in a year and I spend $200k to make that $400k then my S-Corp ends up with $200k in taxable income. Which I submit would make me rich.

$200k in "taxable income" for a business that is a partnership is not much.

sounds to me like this plan F's small businesses.

basically its an additional tax on any company with profit of at least 200k...

[Guest endymion]

HELLO, dude. Say you have a web site sitting in your closet, like I do. Say it's a vending machine, people all over the world stick credit cards into it, money falls out. Say it's set up as an S-Corp. $200,000 falls out of it this year in particular.

You are rich. Deal with it and pay up.

[Guest JMT]

yeah and i operate it with 3 other investors = NOT RICH.

this fuks small businesses, plain and simple. most small busnesses re-invest a large portion of their profits back in the business.

there are more millionaires than ever before. a 200k business is not rich ENOUGH, especially when the owners have most likely worked their ass off to make it get to that level.

[Guest endymion]

If you split evenly with three other investors then your yearly 1120S flow-through to your 1040 from your jointly-owned S-Corp is $50,000 and you would have to create $150,000 worth of other mischief with other S-Corp owership shares or LLC memberships in order to be affected by any hypothetical $200,000 limit.