Guest pod Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Click here...It is Rolling Stone, so I'm automatically suspect, but it does bring up a few valid points. Plus it makes me wonder, when we're on the verge of developing Terminator-esque killing machines, why do we need more people to fight wars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pod Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Oh and my favorite..."President Bush has also signed an executive order allowing legal immigrants to apply for citizenship immediately -- rather than wait five years -- if they volunteer for active duty."Service guarantees Citizenship. Join the Mobile Infantry Today! Do You Want to Know More? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 At least some poor people will be getting a mercenary bonus. This as always been the case.. if the lower middle and lower classes want a leg up... this is an easy 4-8 year sacrifice. And the benefits sure beat going to college... $10,000 enlistment bonus, $30,000 re-enlistment bonus and war pay... plus mad GI Bill money... plus mad money for VA Home loans... damn... soon alot of poor people will strongly be in the middle class. I guess I have something to thank Bush for. Too bad this comes at the price of Iraqi lives.Service guarantees middle class. If you save up your money in the service its better than going to an Ivy Leaque school. New class warfare or a reshuffling of the middle class system? I'm interested in this phenomenon from a sociological point of view. As we move to a more imperial society... service maybe alot more beneficial than education.. material wise.BTW... screw the Army... go all out... The Few... The Proud... http://www.usmc.mil/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siuol_leahcim Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 if this does go down, i wonder how all these hardcore bush acolytes are going to justify him lying to the american people that there would not be a draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pod Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Marines totally. I only referenced the Army due to the similarities with the Starship Troopers theme. Army = Ain't Ready for the Marines Yet. Hell, if this does fuck up the class structure in the US, I'd like to see it too. If anything, service is a lot more honorable than nepotism and midwest-bourgeois social crapola. Nonetheless, I'm not a big believer in the draft, I've always felt that a volunteer military is more effective anyhow. People who fight because they want to are more vicious. I'd rather send a team of psychotics into the warzone than send conscripts. Nevermind that future warfighting tactics do not emphasize numbers so much. When the US military has capabilities such as stealth bombers, orbital weapons platforms, hypersonic fighter planes, EMP devices, plasma weapons, adaptive camouflage, tactical nuclear weapons, and informational warfare technology, numbers cease to mean so much. When you've got weapons that take out half an army in a shot, does it really matter? Nevermind the current trend towards remote warfighting. I could probably fly an Apache gunship remotely using my PC if i had the proper interface. Oddly enough, there was a concept like this in a Robin Williams movie a few years back called Toys. He ran a toy company, and some defense contractor bought them out, and started training children to play realistic violent videogames, the ultimate purpose being that they would one day be trasitioned to remotely piloting drones to fight in a war, probably unbeknownst to them...the kids would only see representations of targets, not the real deal...they'd see it as a big game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan2772 Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Oh and my favorite..."President Bush has also signed an executive order allowing legal immigrants to apply for citizenship immediately -- rather than wait five years -- if they volunteer for active duty."Service guarantees Citizenship. Join the Mobile Infantry Today! Do You Want to Know More?hahahaha starship troopers ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saintjohn Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Plus it makes me wonder, when we're on the verge of developing Terminator-esque killing machines, why do we need more people to fight wars?Because we expect our military to do more than just kill people and break things. We want our forces to kill the bad people, and not kill the people who simply have the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. We want our forces to destroy enemy resources, not random real estate. Despite advances in computer technology, we're a long way from developing a machine with the right combination of situational awareness, lethal capability, and morality to replace true warriors (as opposed to the people who simply wear their uniforms). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 All we really need is terminator-eque killing machines. They would be more efficient than carpet bombing. Plus human warriors can enjoy killing too much. All this stuff about morality is a bunch of crap... when we we were carpet bombing Dresden, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, nuking Japan... we didn't give a damn about morality.. we just cared about achieving the objective which was winning. Winning is all that matters. So Terminators would be more efficient at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan2772 Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Winning is all that matters. basic human nature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Winning is all that matters. basic human natureIn a war context when your life is on the line.. winning is all that matters. People have defended the killings of little kids... out of fear for their own lives. Unleash a barrage of bullets at a kid approaching your check point because you thought he had a bomb on him.. and thats justified. War is about winning dude. Trust me... I'm intimately aware of war fighting. I'm anti-war.. but I know the mentality of most infantry units. The truth is that in the service they joke about killing women and children if they feel their life is threatened. A type of Vietnam Sapper/terrorist mentality is embued. For a grunt to light up a woman or child is no big deal... even if in the end it was a mistake. War is not an exercise in sanity or judicious actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saintjohn Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 All this stuff about morality is a bunch of crapIs that what they taught you at Parris Island?when we we were carpet bombing Dresden, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, nuking Japan... we didn't give a damn about moralityThat's quite a list. We could discuss each of your examples at length, but I'm surprised you mention the atomic bombs which were dropped on Japan. The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible, but they ultimately saved lives (both American and Japanese). Japan was determined to fight to the bitter end, and only the threat of more atomic bombs caused them to surrender. The only other option for ending the war, an invasion, would've resulted in millions of more deaths, plus the very real possibility of a hostile occupation. So, given the situation, would it have been better (morally speaking) to attempt to "contain" the Japanese (prolonging the conflict and starving their civilian population), invade (which would've made Iwo Jima look like a Boy Scout picnic), or totally destroy two lovely cities without warning? I'm not sure there was a "moral" answer, but Truman made a choice which, overall, saved millions of lives.Winning is all that matters."Winning"? I don't want to get into some stupid word game, but killing, by itself, isn't the same as winning. Convincing the enemy not to fight (or to stop fighting) is winning. A determined opponent may leave you no choice, but it's better for you, for him, and the environment if you can resolve a particular conflict with a minimum of violence (contrary to Marine wisdom, blood does not make the grass grow). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Is that what they taught you at Parris Island?They thought us to be killers at Parris Island. That was a 3 month exercise in developing your killing instinct. Cadences like... what makes the grass grow.. blood blood blood. Is not judicious in whose blood makes the grass grow. We are trained to kill anything that stops our objective and to devalue human life. If we're on patrol and we see a little kid approaching our position and we can't evade this kid.. and more we think he'll tell the main body of the enemy we're observing before we can stop him... then we would have no qualms taking him out (doesn't matter if he's 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.. whatever years old). I don't know about the Army... but in the Marines things are like that. If you can't accept that fact then so be it. But thats how it was from my grunt experiences. As far as nuking civilian populations.. even you'll justify it.. at the cost of winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saintjohn Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 If we're on patrol and we see a little kid approaching our position and we can't evade this kid.. and more we think he'll tell the main body of the enemy we're observing before we can stop him... then we would have no qualms taking him out (doesn't matter if he's 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.. whatever years old).An acquaintance of mine was actually faced with that situation during the first Gulf War. He and the rest of his Scud-hunting team were compromised by some kid herding goats deep inside Iraq. One of the soldiers took aim with a silenced MP5, but the team leader aid, "Guys, we're SF, not SS." They knew that letting the kid run away would probably mean the end of the mission, and perhaps their lives, but they packed up, moved out, and accepted the consequences of their moral decision. That's the difference between a warrior and a killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 If we're on patrol and we see a little kid approaching our position and we can't evade this kid.. and more we think he'll tell the main body of the enemy we're observing before we can stop him... then we would have no qualms taking him out (doesn't matter if he's 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.. whatever years old).An acquaintance of mine was actually faced with that situation during the first Gulf War. He and the rest of his Scud-hunting team were compromised by some kid herding goats deep inside Iraq. One of the soldiers took aim with a silenced MP5, but the team leader aid, "Guys, we're SF, not SS." They knew that letting the kid run away would probably mean the end of the mission, and perhaps their lives, but they packed up, moved out, and accepted the consequences of their moral decision. That's the difference between a warrior and a killer.Actually I heard the same story from an SAS book. Those were British.. their slightly more civilized. Did they have a means of quick extraction.. was the mission paramount? Morality in war is a bunch of crap. War is about killing and hurting people... and taking things by force. It's not an exercise in flower throwing. Look at how quick you're to defend us nuking two lovely Japanese cities. Couldn't we have demonstrated the atomic bomb to the Japanese first?A warrior is a controlled killer.... who kills the enemy in wars. Thats the only difference between a warrior and say a neighborhood killer. Stop watching Shaolin martial arts movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Plus it makes me wonder, when we're on the verge of developing Terminator-esque killing machines, why do we need more people to fight wars? Seen the Tetra Vaal commercial yet?Fake yes but not so outlandish. Makes you wonder about the real life skunk works programs to develop these things. Would the decision to invade Syria and Iran be easier if we could just use droids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saintjohn Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Actually I heard the same story from an SAS book. Those were British.. their slightly more civilized. Did they have a means of extraction.. was the mission paramount?The SAS book is Bravo Two Zero, by "Andy McNab."The incident I referenced involved ODA 525. After the team was compromised, they were pursued by a large Iraqi force. A running firefight ensued, and the team was eventually extracted under fire without suffering a single casualty. In case you're wondering, I once enjoyed the privilege of their company during an FTX at Camp Lejeune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saintjohn Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Couldn't we have demonstrated the atomic bomb to the Japanese first?That would've been my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pod Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Seen the Tetra Vaal commercial yet?Fake yes but not so outlandish. Makes you wonder about the real life skunk works programs to develop these things. Would the decision to invade Syria and Iran be easier if we could just use droids?That is why I said "on the verge"...we're not quite there yet, but I'm sure the real-life equivalent of Cyberdyne Systems has something in the works. Already we have unmanned drones that can not only observe, but attack targets, successfully. The next step is autonomous drones with little to no direct human control...Pretty much tell it to "go to point a and kill these type of people..." and it goes to work. We would have invaded many a nation years ago if it was a total machine war. Even the most rabid anti-war person would probably find better things to protest if the only thing getting put in harms way was a bunch of gears, chips, and steel. That's the whole logic behind the Air Force's push to drone-based aircraft...it is a much more socially acceptable loss if your drone gets shot down. Nevermind the engineering...a drone can be made to pull 20 G turns and then some since it doesn't have to worry about squishing a human pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 A solar powered drone that can stay in atmospheric orbit for months is in the works. We're surely living in cold killing times. Imagine terrorist with terminators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saintjohn Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Btw, the ad at the bottom of this thread says:Terminator EndoskeletonHuge selection of new & used. Check out the deals now!Maybe the DoD should start checking Ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Btw, the ad at the bottom of this thread says:Terminator EndoskeletonHuge selection of new & used. Check out the deals now!Maybe the DoD should start checking Ebay.LOL.... that is funny as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornslippy22 Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Army = Ain't Ready for the Marines Yet.i rather be in the Army than a mindless robot jar head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 i rather be in the Army than a mindless robot jar head.... Well their both mindless robots. But it's much better to be the robot with the advanced programming and extended software and hardware calibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornslippy22 Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Well their both mindless robots.LMAO...u must be kidding me? Siempre Fi...lolwhy dont we ask the Marines on this board, who was the ONLY fighting force to lose their regimental colors in a battle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancepriest Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Are you referring to the 31st Infanty in the Korean war. Alot tof myths exist about a disgraced American military unit that lost its colors. If you're referring ot the 31st.. they held their position for 4 days in terrible weather and fought until they were all perished. If they lost their colors in that circumstance... well then thats warrior honor.I heard alot of rumors also about the 1/9 in Vietnam (The Walking Dead). But I don't see anything about losing colors. What unit are you speaking of... i'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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