Democrats: Being Liberal Causes Us to Lose

[Guest slamminshaun]

Admission is the first step to recovery. This is an excellent article written by members of the Clinton White House. I love how this article admits that in order to win elections, Democrats are going to have to fool people into thinking they're not really liberal. How do you liberals feel about that? Would you rather your candidates be liberal and lose, or pretend they're moderate/conservative and STILL lose? ;D Even James Carville is out there saying "the problem with being a Democrat, is being a Democrat". What do you suppose he means by that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/06/AR2005100601645_pf.html

[Guest mursa]

Delay indicted twice in one wek

Frist under investigation for insider trading

Karl Rove probably indicted in the near future for leeking CIA operatives name

Bush continuing to put his croonies in high positions

Bush approval at 37%

yep , for me the Republicans are already shitting their pants about the 06 Congressionals ! ;D

[Guest web_norah]

Shaun give it up.

i have three major issues for you:

one

Mr Shaath said that in a 2003 meeting with Mr Bush, the US president said he was "driven with a mission from God".

"God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did

wft is that all about. a president that can't speak !!!

two:

Lewis Libby (Dick Cheney's aide), dropped the ball -and i am glad Judith Miller finally told her source so that she can't get out of that sick situation she's in.

i've been saying it all along -there were no mofo WMD, this country entered a war for the wrong reasons, people still defend that idiotic premise....where are the WMD's? Judith Miller writes an article citing reliable sources and she is imprisoned. wtf is wrong with this picture?

three:

U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay asked on Friday that indictments accusing him of money laundering

[Guest JMT]

Bush approval at 37%

47%, but nice try.

[Guest slamminshaun]

What do WMD's, Bush approval ratings, Tom Delay, and Judith Miller have to do with James Carville and other Clintonites saying the reason they keep losing elections is because they're not hiding the fact that they're liberal well enough? I wouldn't have posted it if Sean Hannity said it....

[Guest mursa]

Bush approval at 37%

47%, but nice try.

I saw 37% yesturday on Cnn the situation room .

This is the one from sept 10....@ 39%http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/10/bush.poll.ap/ ........OMFG did he miraculously gain 8 points in 1 month , especially now with the Miers nomination? lmao .

nice try ;D

[Guest slamminshaun]

Bush approval at 37%

47%, but nice try.

I saw 37% yesturday on Cnn the situation room .

This is the one from sept 10....@ 39%http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/10/bush.poll.ap/ ........OMFG did he miraculously gain 8 points in 1 month , especially now with the Miers nomination? lmao .

nice try ;D

Siting the Clinton News Network is like me trying to tell you that you should believe me because Rush Limbaugh said so.... :

Nice Try.

[Guest jamu]

“Domestically, moreover, Bush has done a huge amount to destroy the coherence of a conservative philosophy of American government; and he has been almost criminally reckless in his hubris in the conduct of the war… Put all that together, and I may not find myself the only conservative moving slowly and reluctantly toward the notion that Kerry may be the right man - and the conservative choice - for a difficult and perilous time.†This spoken by your own Republicans.

"The US Economy has traditionally done better under a rule of Democrats then of Republicans" Donald Trump

[Guest slamminshaun]

“Domestically, moreover, Bush has done a huge amount to destroy the coherence of a conservative philosophy of American government; and he has been almost criminally reckless in his hubris in the conduct of the war… Put all that together, and I may not find myself the only conservative moving slowly and reluctantly toward the notion that Kerry may be the right man - and the conservative choice - for a difficult and perilous time.†This spoken by your own Republicans.

Who said this???

[Guest JMT]

Bush approval at 37%

47%, but nice try.

I saw 37% yesturday on Cnn the situation room .

This is the one from sept 10....@ 39%http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/10/bush.poll.ap/ ........OMFG did he miraculously gain 8 points in 1 month , especially now with the Miers nomination? lmao .

how about 6?

9/29: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/29/bush.poll/

lol, you struggle badly.

[Guest jamu]

“Domestically' date=' moreover, Bush has done a huge amount to destroy the coherence of a conservative philosophy of American government; and he has been almost criminally reckless in his hubris in the conduct of the war… Put all that together, and I may not find myself the only conservative moving slowly and reluctantly toward the notion that Kerry may be the right man - and the conservative choice - for a difficult and perilous time.†This spoken by your own Republicans.

[/quote']

Who said this???

Niall Ferguson and Andrew Sullivan. Known republican conservatives.

[Guest slamminshaun]

“Domestically, moreover, Bush has done a huge amount to destroy the coherence of a conservative philosophy of American government; and he has been almost criminally reckless in his hubris in the conduct of the war… Put all that together, and I may not find myself the only conservative moving slowly and reluctantly toward the notion that Kerry may be the right man - and the conservative choice - for a difficult and perilous time.†This spoken by your own Republicans.

Who said this???

Niall Ferguson and Andrew Sullivan. Known republican conservatives.

Known to who, the city of Bakersville? I think me and JMT are even scratchin' our heads wondering who that is.....they're not exactly as prominent as James Carville, which is why I posted this thread in the first place. I'm not going to dig up some obscure liberal to prove a point....but when the guy who ran Clinton's campaign says it, it holds more water. Next time, use a quote that's at least from 2005.... ;D

[Guest junglesmacks]

wow

whats scary is that there are actually people that think like shaun and honestly in their hearts believe what has been spoon fed to them by this administration.

www.sorryeverybody.com

believe me, im sorry too..

[Guest jamu]

“Domestically' date=' moreover, Bush has done a huge amount to destroy the coherence of a conservative philosophy of American government; and he has been almost criminally reckless in his hubris in the conduct of the war… Put all that together, and I may not find myself the only conservative moving slowly and reluctantly toward the notion that Kerry may be the right man - and the conservative choice - for a difficult and perilous time.†This spoken by your own Republicans.

[/quote']

Who said this???

Niall Ferguson and Andrew Sullivan. Known republican conservatives.

Known to who, the city of Bakersville? I think me and JMT are even scratchin' our heads wondering who that is.....they're not exactly as prominent as James Carville, which is why I posted this thread in the first place. I'm not going to dig up some obscure liberal to prove a point....but when the guy who ran Clinton's campaign says it, it holds more water. Next time, use a quote that's at least from 2005.... ;D

I dont' think that I was worried about your opinion as much as your parties opinion. So meaning well known to your party is more important then well known to your JMT. By the way the quote is a real quote is opinion held by a conservative repoblican, which is what this thread is about, and I figured that I would also point out that 2004 is still well with in the Bush Presidency and well within the the beginning of blunders made by this incompetent president.

[Guest slamminshaun]

well known to your party is more important

As much as I keep up on politics, I've never heard of those guys and I can rattle of some really obscure names off the tip of my tongue.....I'm sure they're not as well-known to "my" party as James Carville is to the Dems.

whats scary is that there are actually people that think like shaun and honestly in their hearts believe what has been spoon fed to them by this administration.

What's scary is that the left only thinks people on the right come to their conclusions by being spoon fed....When you lose you say its because over half the country is retarded. When you win, you say its because the "American people have spoken with one voice".

Back to the point of this thread....we've seen a self-professed born-again conservative Christian win the presidency, but can a self-professed liberal win or do they have to pretend they're not liberal in order to win? Do Democrats even want a candidate that pretends he/she's not a Democrat? Why does your party shit all over Joe Liebermann, because he's Jewish? Why does your party tolerate KKK members among their ranks? Why does the party take blacks for granted except during campaign season? If anyone has been voting blindly over the years, its minority Democrats that have been spoon fed. How else can one explain the situation in Rivera Beach, where liberals are throwing 2,000 blacks out of their homes so they can turn over the property to rich corporations? Do your homework on that and then tell me who's for the rich....

[Guest jamu]

Do your homework on that and then tell me who's for the rich....

Just look at the current state of the economy, oil prices, the enviroment, healthcare, and CIA leaks. Hmm doing my research I find a lot of bad news for the current state of the US. But then again Bush, his administration, and his supporters would blame everyone else but themselves for everything being as dismal as it is. It looks pretty bad out there and the leadership definately doesn't want to "play the blame game." however I just don't see our current administration succeeding in anything.

[Guest slamminshaun]

Do your homework on that and then tell me who's for the rich....

Just look at the current state of the economy, oil prices, the enviroment, healthcare, and CIA leaks.

You can't be serious. The economy is stronger now then it has been in decades, even the 90's my friend. The media has played partisan politics in talking down this BOOMING economy. I have this article saved in my "political bomb throwing" folder to counter anybody who actually believes the economy is in the toilet....sorry man, the numbers just don't add up.

Liberals talk like its the Great Depression out there (doom and gloom like always), but read this article. It explains why Americans think the economy stinks even though the numbers are better then they have been in decades.....there truly is a disconnect between the true state of the U.S. economy and the perception of the population.

http://www.ahwatukee.com/afn/opinion/editorial/05824g2.html

[Guest slamminshaun]

I'll bullet-point the important parts of the article above.....

* Real disposable personal income has grown by over 12 percent since the end of 2000.

* The U.S. Department of Labor recently reported that more than 200,000 new jobs were created in July, and 2 million over the past year.

* Over the past two decades, we've produced twice as many new jobs as Europe and Japan combined.

* More Americans have jobs today than at any other time in history, and our unemployment rate of 5 percent is one of the lowest of all developed nations, lower than the averages of the 1970s, '80s and '90s. Yes, even the 1990s!!!!

* Over the past 24 months, 3.5 million Americans have found work, which is the equivalent of a new job for every worker in the entire state of Indiana.

* Demonstrating our national resilience and flexibility in the face of change, we have replaced every single job that was lost in the dot-com bust with a new job, often in a new industry.

* The number of black-owned businesses grew by 45 percent between 1997 and 2002.

* Hispanic-owned businesses jumped 31 percent over the same timeframe, and women-owned businesses were up by 20 percent.

* Median family income is now above $52,000 a year allowing many mothers (or fathers) to not have to work as they did in the past.

* The Federal Reserve has been raising interest rates, a sign that the economy is growing rapidly.

* Homeownership is at an all-time high, especially among minorities.

* The average net worth of an American has gone through the roof since 2000.

* Dow Jones is still above 10,000

[Guest Spankmeister]

I'll bullet-point the important parts of the article above.....

* Real disposable personal income has grown by over 12 percent since the end of 2000.

* The U.S. Department of Labor recently reported that more than 200' date='000 new jobs were created in July, and 2 million over the past year.

* Over the past two decades, we've produced twice as many new jobs as Europe and Japan combined.

* More Americans have jobs today than at any other time in history, and our unemployment rate of 5 percent is one of the lowest of all developed nations, lower than the averages of the 1970s, '80s and '90s. Yes, even the 1990s!!!!

* Over the past 24 months, 3.5 million Americans have found work, which is the equivalent of a new job for every worker in the entire state of Indiana.

* Demonstrating our national resilience and flexibility in the face of change, we have replaced every single job that was lost in the dot-com bust with a new job, often in a new industry.

* The number of black-owned businesses grew by 45 percent between 1997 and 2002.

* Hispanic-owned businesses jumped 31 percent over the same timeframe, and women-owned businesses were up by 20 percent.

* Median family income is now above $52,000 a year allowing many mothers (or fathers) to not have to work as they did in the past.

* The Federal Reserve has been raising interest rates, a sign that the economy is growing rapidly.

* Homeownership is at an all-time high, especially among minorities.

* The average net worth of an American has gone through the roof since 2000.

* Dow Jones is still above 10,000

[/quote']

There is really only 1 thing there that are not put out by the Govt itself...The Dow Jones.

When the Dept of Labor puts Fast Food Jobs in the Manufacturing sector...When tallying the Unemployment rate, the Dept of Labor only looks at the unemployment benefits being paid out, not long term unemployment. When the 'median' anything changes, there can be so many factors contributing, you can't take that at face value, the 'median' income can rise if the top 5% of the income ladder members income rises...

I moved here from Michigan...a VERY dismal economic state...with the auto industry outsourcing a lot of jobs, and people staying in the state, the economy is much, much worse there. After Katrina, there was a job fair for displaced victims, 400+ people showed up...less than 10% (35) were actually victims of Katrina...it is that bad up there. The single largest auto supply company (Delphi) just filed for Chapter 11.

Personally, I am better off financially than I was 5 years ago, but that is in spite of a lot of what's goin on and I know a VAST number of people that are not.

My opinion is that I don't believe the Dept of Labor, it is run by the Administration, but who checks their numbers?

[Guest Spankmeister]

Being pretty liberal minded myself, I am the first to admit that the Republicans were MUCH better at campaigning in the last election.

There was SO much press on how GW was bad, how bad of a job he did, the HUGE holes in his stories and how he ran the Govt...it had the opposite effect. It completely galvanized the right against the 'liberal media'....and it is a FACT that voters that are on the right, if they feel strongly about a issue, are far more likely to vote...Period.

Also, the fact of the matter is that the US is a conservative country! Very argueably the MOST conservative 1st World country.

Lastly, I have to commend the Repub's for getting a lot of hot-button issues on the same ballot as the Presidential Election. With their grass-roots campaigning, many people came out and voted that probably wouldn't have...In Michigan it was Same Sex Marriage...HUGELY Debated and the turnout was large due to this...

[Guest jamu]

Here read this article and you tell me. I think this article is reflective of what I have heard day in and day out of MSNBC, Scarborough Country, CNN, NY Times, Washington Post, Hardball, Christian Science Monitor, and several other news sources I like to keep up with from my hardcore debate days. Just yesterday I was watching the news and they were talking about angry executives and ceo's.

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docfree.asp?DOCID=1G1:133516892&ctrlInfo=Round18%3AMode18c%3ADocG%3AResult&ao=

[Guest slamminshaun]

Also, the fact of the matter is that the US is a conservative country! Very argueably the MOST conservative 1st World country.

Thanks for sticking to the point of this thread. "Being liberal causes us to lose elections." Very few liberals will admit that liberalism is a very small ideological minority in the U.S., but many on this board will argue otherwise. What's more interesting is that the Democrats think the problem with the last decade of elections is that they did not get their message out. Actually, that WAS their problem and people like James Carville are even saying so. Running on liberal issues will continue to plunge the Dems even further, despite how negative the perception is of the GOP.

Your entire posts were right on the money in just about every way, although I disagree with the implication that the Dept. of Labor fudges the numbers in favor of Bush. If that were the case, economic data from the D.O.L. would always be positive since no president wants it to be covered any other way. I was a Finance/Economics major and there was an old saying. It doesn't matter if unemployment is 0.1%, if you happen to be apart of that 0.1% the economy sucks in your book.

[Guest jamu]

Being liberal is not a crime its what the US's was originally founded. It was the Idea of Democracy. The Republic is more along the lines of what we gave a minority at the begining stages of this country to hold it together during construction of this country.

"In a Republic, the leaders decide what is best for the country and dictate policy to the rest of the population. In a Democracy, voters are consulted and polled before policy decisions are made and the majority rules."

I want my leaders in Congress, the Senate, the Supreme Court, and the White House to be servants of the people not leaders of the people. This makes our country great and seperates us from other nations that have so much corruption in goverment. Just by looking at Bush it is blatantly obvious he believes he knows what is best for the Nation rather then the Nation knowing whats best for its self. That is only the tip of the iceberg as to why this administration is so weak and unable to cope with the needs of the country.

P.S. Guys please stop calling me Liberalist. I am a centralist.

[Guest pod]

What you are talking about is classical liberalism, not the abortion that exists today. Today, it is called Libertarianism. Today's liberals feel the need to tax the hell out of you, take away your right to bear arms and your right to freedom of speech, among other things. The conservatives are even worse. They want a silent, unarmed populace for control purposes.

[Guest jamu]

What you are talking about is classical liberalism, not the abortion that exists today. Today, it is called Libertarianism. Today's liberals feel the need to tax the hell out of you, take away your right to bear arms and your right to freedom of speech, among other things. The conservatives are even worse. They want a silent, unarmed populace for control purposes.

Excellent point POD.

My whole problem with the Republican Party is their attitude about religon and goverment. Everytime I turn around the Republican Party is screaming about how religion needs to play a central part in this country. And how we need to up hold certain religous values. This country was founded on the idea of seperation of church and state, and goverment has no place with religon.

As for economics, certain Republicans I can agree with, but the Bush Administration is doing an awful job. I believe in certain Republican ideas, like less goverment and more self rule. But we need to be taxed for this country to grow and for our goverment to get out of the deficit its in. I don't mind paying taxes so long as there are jobs out there, the quality of education rises, and other necessities provided by the goverment florish, and help the general populace. I would also like to see an increase in penalties to businesses that outsource American jobs. But hey thats just my opinion.