**UPDATED 3** Recent examples of a collapsing club scene:

[Guest djrc]

I have been going to clubs since the Kitchen club, Red Room back in 1992. And I have seen everything change, from the drugs to the music. And btw Hip Hop and Freestyle where the only "dance music" on radio. I can rember driving to Palm Beach for raves. Holy shit I am getting old. Well beside that, I still go to Space,The Hard Rock, ect maybe not every week be at least once a month. And the onething a have notice is that the people have changed but the game is the same. And everytime I am out, rather it be at space,hardrock, pawnshop,ect it is packed. I have two kids. Own a Business. And have been married for 12 years. And yes I have a want-a-be Studio in my garage. That I have spend thousands of dollars on. And a website for promting my dj work "or lack there of". A BEAT PORT account, and for what. I LOVE DANCE MUSIC. And I think there are a lot of poeple just like me. Some young and not so young, " I did not want to say old". But for some clubing is not a option any more and they feel that the love they once had for meeting new people, dancing all nite and/or day a bit old. Thus there since is dead. Not mine!

Look for my new mix coming soon.

[Guest VitaminSki]

UK ,Buenos Aires and Europe.... maybe you all should take a few notes and observe how they are getting it done in other places. The scene is far from dieing. It is promoted is a much differnt manner. Check it out!

D

[Guest myles hie]

UK ,Buenos Aires and Europe.... maybe you all should take a few notes and observe how they are getting it done in other places. The scene is far from dieing. It is promoted is a much differnt manner. Check it out!

D

Thats a common misconception. UK is experiencing issues too with some of their larger venues closing, music mags closing, etc.. it sustains over there because dance has entered into mainsteam culture, but they are having plenty of issues as well.

There is not 1 specific reason why dance is hurting. Its about a half dozen or so reasons things are the way they are and it goes deeper than whats going on here in Miami. The is little or no infrastruture in EDM business wise. Whats going on here people is a weird case of growing pains. Things have gotten bigger but there is not a solid foundation to sustain and facilitate growth. There is no money really filtering through this business like other music genres to keep things moving and afloat. EDM is still a very much DIY (look it up) thing. Nothing can survive like that for too long.

[Guest pod]

UK ,Buenos Aires and Europe.... maybe you all should take a few notes and observe how they are getting it done in other places. The scene is far from dieing.

Those are different countries. You can't apply a UK solution to a Miami problem. Doesn't work that way.

[Guest spinderella7713]

UK ,Buenos Aires and Europe.... maybe you all should take a few notes and observe how they are getting it done in other places. The scene is far from dieing.

Those are different countries. You can't apply a UK solution to a Miami problem. Doesn't work that way.

The answer to this one was that EDM is mainstream in other countries not here....where hip hop thrieves. for fing sake peeps country music is much bigger here then EDM.

[Guest pod]

The cultural thing again. What happened was that modern dance music was developed here as essentially an offshoot of disco. Not being received well, since people were tired of the overall dance sound, it went to Europe, where it was accepted and incorporated into their mainstream. Italo-disco anyone?

[Guest Editor]

Remind me again why a club owner WOULDN'T go straight hip-hop, if that's what he thought the market wanted?

[Guest spinderella7713]

Remind me again why a club owner WOULDN'T go straight hip-hop, if that's what he thought the market wanted?

Lets take Metropolis for Example...or even Life

[Guest pod]

Remind me again why a club owner WOULDN'T go straight hip-hop, if that's what he thought the market wanted?

Type of crowd. Risk management, prospecting on the future. Hip-hop nights sell, but there's a whole 'nother host of problems associated with them. Not every venue has this problem, but Life and Metropolis were/are shooting galleries.

[Guest spinderella7713]

but then again sky bar has an upscale crowd, and I remember them playing all hip hop. I think with a hip hop event you need a frenchman at the door.

[Guest pod]

House music used to be the music of the upscale crowd. What happened was that in some of the trendy upscale European markets, hip-hop caught on, and of course the Beach followed suit.

House is still played at upscale events though. Just now hip-hop is too.

[Guest Editor]

but then again sky bar has an upscale crowd

Exactly. That's what I'm getting at....how long will hip-hop stay ghetto/9mm. Currently, hip-hop=younger pseudo-ghetto crowd=less disposible income=higher gunShotResidue quotient. But, how long will it stay that way?

I was at a club last weekend, and even though the main room music was very cool, people weren't dancing, BUT when the hip-hop room opened up around 12:30, there was this huge sucking noise created by the crowd rushing into it. Five minutes later, 75% of the people back there were dancing (sort of).

[Guest spinderella7713]

but then again sky bar has an upscale crowd

Exactly. That's what I'm getting at....how long will hip-hop stay ghetto/9mm. Currently, hip-hop=younger pseudo-ghetto crowd=less disposible income=higher gunShotResidue quotient. But, how long will it stay that way?

I was at a club last weekend, and even though the main room music was very cool, people weren't dancing, BUT when the hip-hop room opened up around 12:30, there was this huge sucking noise created by the crowd rushing into it. Five minutes later, 75% of the people back there were dancing (sort of).

i dont think yoiu can do it hear unless you have a tough ass door guy/or woman who knows what crowd they are trying to create inside. i dont know of alot of upscale hip hop clubs in miami except sky bar. up north all of our upscale clubs are hip hop!

[Guest pod]

Yep. The doorman is responsible for mixing the "perfect salad" at the club. That was Steve Rubell's concept anyway. He instructed his doorstaff to do just that, every night. You can have upscale anything as long as the doorstaff does their job.

[Guest ramon]

btw when i refered to nyc, san fran, dallas, etc. i am refering to the underground scene.

we all know that san fran, nyc and chicago will always have a really strong mainstream nightlife industry.

to me underground is exactly what it is. BYOB.. warehouse parties where people go for the music and if they break even or even make some sort of profit.. thats just an added bonus...

only ones i see in this city that at least is mentioned on this board is

joe's warehouse parties........and the residence parties

i also want to highlight something marina said a while back about mansion when she went to hear timo maas

I can comprehend it from both sides of the coin

VIP crowd spends the $$$ so Mansion ropes off most of the main room to cater to that crowd. Is that bad? Nope..

They bring in an underground dj to satiate the headz and bring in the cash at the same time by having a large VIP area

the problem is the undergound headz want to dance and when you have no dancing room available except at the far corner of the room behind the couches. which is a veritable clusterfuck of people going in and out of vip.. or the stairs in front of the ivy room then yeah people will voice their opinion.

personally this is why i go to small hole in the wall places and avoid larger venues.

Hell I like Roger Sanchez but i havent gone to see him at space only because i like to actually have dancing room. being shoved around from one corner of the patio to the other because its slammed is not my idea of a good time.

blame my old ass i guess.... so be it.. yeah i said it im OLD lol

yah i wont see a PVD, Tiesto or Danny Tenagalia play at Blue or Laundry bar but at least ill have room to dance..

course these venues bring in djs that cater more to the music heads as well becuase they can (they dont have the high overhead costs that pod has mentioned before... etc)

space will always pack it in...... cameo will pack it in..... mansion will continue to dominate the hip hop scene on sobe.

life goes on.......

HUH?!?!?!:

underground?

warehouses?

byob?

Dallas?

underground headz?

room to dance?

mainstream nightlife industry?

commercialization?

Bling...are you serious?!?

if it wasn't for the very things you criticize...you wouldn't even be aware of this scene you claim alliegeance to...

When you discovered EDM a few years back...and you were listening to PVD, Armin, Tiesto etc... at Ultra with 20,000 people smashed up against you and you had your hands in the air worshipping while wearing your custom "I love Trance" t-shirt....you had no fucking clue about these things you speak of now..BUT, thanks to that scene, you found this music and this scene.....so why knock it?

the way I see it is....

The Tiestos, PVDs, Morillos etc......are a very important part of this...they are the gateway drug...They are an introduction to a culture which at this point is pretty rich with talent...

I love this music...and as an artist I want EVERYONE to experience my music...I dont care who they are or how underground they claim to be..

If they are on the floor while Im playing house music...they're cool with me!!

Very true! I am the same age as Bling so we weren't clubbing back in the Warsaw days.. I got into the music/scene by way of partying with friends and trance was popular then so that's what we first heard. This introduction to EDM/raving was in 1996-97, after I had been listening to U2, grunge, hippie music, some hip-hop, punk and reggae.. It was a welcome change but it wasn't till 2000 that I began to wonder more about the music and it's roots.

To put it in perspective how clueles I was :-[, I went to go see PVD in '01 at the old Space and I heard someone mention that OG was spinning that night.. I had heard your name before but I didn't know what kind of talent you were and didn't know if you compared to PVD. So going back to your point, if it wasn't for me going to see PVD, I wouldn't have heard or known how good you were till later. It's funny living in Miami, you'd think I would have heard more of you before some German dj..

I still love dance music to this day, and now if it weren't for Radio one I wouldn't know what I know now about dance music. It's a lifelong journey for me, I'm a lifer. Also, as far as the worldwide scene, I recently realized that the scene in South America is huge and for techno too. It's not just in Berlin, Ibiza, or England.. As far as Saleen enjoying himself and making the best of a night.. From what I recall, he said the talent sucked at the locals party (Voodoo on December 1st) but I think he must have been at the wrong party because all the djs I saw that night kicked ass. :

South America particularly Colombia , Venuezuela , Chile , and Argentina and even Brazil are rather strong "techno" contingents. It's where people play down there. Argentina is really growing and they have embraced this music in a large way. SAMC and Mutek BA , Chile , etc.

[Guest bcnjunkie]

If they spun decent music I would go out again....... I see no reason to spend my hard earned money on the crap out there

[Guest JustDade]

Oscar's point is very true...people grow out of clubbing.

Qualify that. *Some* people, you could probably even say *most* people, turn into stay-at-home couch potatos. Others continue to enjoy the nightlife.

I don't know and I'm the oldest guy in this conversation.

Are you sure about that?

I think so. I'm 43 now. I remember when there was no South Beach scene. Back when all the nightlife was in Coconut Grove....Biscayne Baby's, Stringfellows, Cats...80's baby!

Trivia Quiz: What was the first real nightclub to open in SoBe? Where was it located? Hint: there is a club there today.

[Guest myles hie]

If they spun decent music I would go out again....... I see no reason to spend my hard earned money on the crap out there

What type of music do you like?

[Guest JMT]

Trivia Quiz: What was the first real nightclub to open in SoBe? Where was it located? Hint: there is a club there today.

tobacco road - 1912? actually thats not sobe.

[Guest coach]

Oscar's point is very true...people grow out of clubbing.

Qualify that. *Some* people, you could probably even say *most* people, turn into stay-at-home couch potatos. Others continue to enjoy the nightlife.

I don't know and I'm the oldest guy in this conversation.

Are you sure about that?

I think so. I'm 43 now.

Ohhhh! You squeaked it out!

[Guest Marina22]

South America particularly Colombia , Venuezuela , Chile , and Argentina and even Brazil are rather strong "techno" contingents. It's where people play down there. Argentina is really growing and they have embraced this music in a large way. SAMC and Mutek BA , Chile , etc.

I have heard and seen the info. about the SAMC, Love Parade in Chile, and Buenos Aires being killer. I had thought it was more of a trance following rather than more techno but maybe that was a few years ago? I was more surprised to hear about Colombia and Venezuela but not that much.. I haven't any connections for dance music back home nor have I been back to party. Would love to go to any of these events one day.. Have you been to any, Ramon? Also, where are you from and what is Mutek?

[Guest pod]

Well, that's South America, etc.

Let Miami be it's own planet. If techno doesn't catch on here, well that that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[Guest ramon]

South America particularly Colombia , Venuezuela , Chile , and Argentina and even Brazil are rather strong "techno" contingents. It's where people play down there. Argentina is really growing and they have embraced this music in a large way. SAMC and Mutek BA , Chile , etc.

I have heard and seen the info. about the SAMC, Love Parade in Chile, and Buenos Aires being killer. I had thought it was more of a trance following rather than more techno but maybe that was a few years ago? I was more surprised to hear about Colombia and Venezuela but not that much.. I haven't any connections for dance music back home nor have I been back to party. Would love to go to any of these events one day.. Have you been to any, Ramon? Also, where are you from and what is Mutek?

I haven't been to South America it's on the list and it's pretty high in priority.

www.mutek.ca .. its held in canada (montreal) and now in other places in the world. very experimental forward thinking music. cool showcases.

I'm cuban-american.

[Guest pod]

Forward how? What's forward?

[Guest Willie Morales]

was it the beat... which came first decos or 1235 can't remember now...

Oscar's point is very true...people grow out of clubbing.

Qualify that. *Some* people, you could probably even say *most* people, turn into stay-at-home couch potatos. Others continue to enjoy the nightlife.

I don't know and I'm the oldest guy in this conversation.

Are you sure about that?

I think so. I'm 43 now. I remember when there was no South Beach scene. Back when all the nightlife was in Coconut Grove....Biscayne Baby's, Stringfellows, Cats...80's baby!

Trivia Quiz: What was the first real nightclub to open in SoBe? Where was it located? Hint: there is a club there today.