sassa Posted September 23 Report Share Posted September 23 Larry Mosqueda, Ph.D. The Evergreen State College September 15, 2001 Like all Americans, on Tuesday, 9-11, I was shocked and horrified to watch the WTC Twin Towers attacked by hijacked planes and collapse, resulting in the deaths of perhaps up to 10,000 innocent people. I had not been that shocked and horrified since January 16,1991, when then President Bush attacked Baghdad, and the rest of Iraq and began killing 200,000 people during that "war" (slaughter). This includes the infamous "highway of death" in the last days of the slaughter when U.S. pilots literally shot in the back retreating Iraqi civilians and soldiers. I continue to be horrified by the sanctions on Iraq, which have resulted in the death of over 1,000,000 Iraqis, including over 500,000 children, about whom former Secretary of State Madeline Allbright has stated that their deaths "are worth the cost". Over the course of my life I have been shocked and horrified by a variety of U.S. governmental actions, such as the U.S. sponsored coup against democracy in Guatemala in 1954 which resulted in the deaths of over 120,000 Guatemalan peasants by U.S. installed dictatorships over the course of four decades. Last Tuesday's events reminded me of the horror I felt when the U.S. overthrew the governments of the Dominican Republic in 1965 and helped to murder 3,000 people. And it reminded me of the shock I felt in 1973, when the U.S. sponsored a coup in Chile against the democratic government of Salvador Allende and helped to murder another 30,000 people, including U.S. citizens. Last Tuesday's events reminded me of the shock and horror I felt in 1965 when the U.S. sponsored a coup in Indonesia that resulted in the murder of over 800,000 people, and the subsequent slaughter in 1975 of over 250,000 innocent people in East Timor by the Indonesian regime with the direct complicity of President Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissenger. I was reminded of the shock and horror I felt during the U.S. sponsored terrorist contra war (the World Court declared the U.S. government a war criminal in 1984 for the mining of the harbors) against Nicaragua in the 1980s which resulted in the deaths of over 30,000 innocent people (or as the U.S. government used to call them before the term "collateral damage" was invented--"soft targets"). I was reminded of being horrified by the U. S. war against the people of El Salvador in the 1980s, which resulted in the brutal deaths of over 80,000 people, or "soft targets". I was reminded of the shock and horror I felt during the U.S. sponsored terror war against the peoples of southern Africa (especially Angola) that began in the 1970's and continues to this day and has resulted in the deaths and mutilations of over 1,000,000. I was reminded of the shock and horror I felt as the U.S. invaded Panama over the Christmas season of 1989 and killed over 8,000 in an attempt to capture George H. Bush's CIA partner, now turned enemy, Manual Noriega. I was reminded of the horror I felt when I learned about how the Shah of Iran was installed in a U.S. sponsored brutal coup that resulted in the deaths of over 70,000 Iranians from 1952-1979. And the continuing shock as I learned that the Ayatollah Khomani, who overthrew the Shah in 1979, and who was the U.S. public enemy for decade of the 1980s, was also on the CIA payroll, while he was in exile in Paris in the 1970s. I was reminded of the shock and horror that I felt as I learned about how the U.S. has "manufactured consent" since 1948 for its support of Israel, to the exclusion of virtually any rights for the Palestinians in their native lands resulting in ever worsening day-to-day conditions for the people of Palestine. I was shocked as I learned about the hundreds of towns and villages that were literally wiped off the face of the earth in the early days of Israeli colonization. I was horrified in 1982 as the villagers of Sabra and Shatila were massacred by Israeli allies with direct Israeli complicity and direction. The untold thousands who died on that day match the scene of horror that we saw last Tuesday. But those scenes were not repeated over and over again on the national media to inflame the American public. The events and images of last Tuesday have been appropriately compared to the horrific events and images of Lebanon in the 1980s with resulted in the deaths of tens of thousand of people, with no reference to the fact that the country that inflicted the terror on Lebanon was Israel, with U.S. backing. I still continue to be shocked at how mainstream commentators refer to "Israeli settlers" in the "occupied territories" with no sense of irony as they report on who are the aggressors in the region. Of course, the largest and most shocking war crime of the second half of the 20th century was the U.S. assault on Indochina from 1954-1975, especially Vietnam, where over 4,000,000 people were bombed, napalmed, crushed, shot and individually "hands on" murdered in the "Phoenix Program" (this is where Oliver North got his start). Many U.S. Vietnam veterans were also victimized by this war and had the best of intentions, but the policy makers themselves knew the criminality of their actions and policies as revealed in their own words in "The Pentagon Papers," released by Daniel Ellsberg of the RAND Corporation. In 1974 Ellsberg noted that our Presidents from Truman to Nixon continually lied to the U.S. public about the purpose and conduct of the war. He has stated that, "It is a tribute to the American people that our leaders perceived that they had to lie to us, it is not a tribute to us that we were so easily misled." I was continually shocked and horrified as the U.S. attacked and bombed with impunity the nation of Libya in the 1980s, including killing the infant daughter of Khadafi. I was shocked as the U.S. bombed and invaded Grenada in 1983. I was horrified by U.S. military and CIA actions in Somalia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Sudan, Brazil, Argentina, and Yugoslavia. The deaths in these actions ran into the hundreds of thousands. The above list is by no means complete or comprehensive. It is merely a list that is easily accessible and not unknown, especially to the economic and intellectual elites. It has just been conveniently eliminated from the public discourse and public consciousness. And for the most part, the analysis that the U.S. actions have resulted in the deaths of primarily civilians (over 90%) is not unknown to these elites and policy makers. A conservative number for those who have been killed by U.S. terror and military action since World War II is 8,000,000 people. Repeat--8,000,000 people. This does not include the wounded, the imprisoned, the displaced, the refugees, etc. Martin Luther King, Jr. stated in 1967, during the Vietnam War, "My government is the world's leading purveyor of violence." Shocking and horrifying. Nothing that I have written is meant to disparage or disrespect those who were victims and those who suffered death or the loss of a loved one during this week's events. It is not meant to "justify" any action by those who bombed the Twin Towers or the Pentagon. It is meant to put it in a context. If we believe that the actions were those of "madmen", they are "madmen" who are able to keep a secret for 2 years or more among over 100 people, as they trained to execute a complex plan. While not the acts of madmen, they are apparently the acts of "fanatics" who, depending on who they really are, can find real grievances, but whose actions are illegitimate. Osama Bin Laden at this point has been accused by the media and the government of being the mastermind of Tuesday's bombings. Given the government's track record on lying to the America people, that should not be accepted as fact at this time. If indeed Bin Laden is the mastermind of this action, he is responsible for the deaths of perhaps 10,000 people-a shocking and horrible crime. Ed Herman in his book The Real Terror Network: Terrorism in Fact and Propaganda does not justify any terrorism but points out that states often engage in "wholesale" terror, while those whom governments define as "terrorist" engage is "retail" terrorism. While qualitatively the results are the same for the individual victims of terrorism, there is a clear quantitative difference. And as Herman and others point out, the seeds, the roots, of much of the "retail" terror are in fact found in the "wholesale" terror of states. Again this is not to justify, in any way, the actions of last Tuesday, but to put them in a context and suggest an explanation. Perhaps most shocking and horrific, if indeed Bin Laden is the mastermind of Tuesday's actions; he has clearly had significant training in logistics, armaments, and military training, etc. by competent and expert military personnel. And indeed he has. During the 1980s, he was recruited, trained and funded by the CIA in Afghanistan to fight against the Russians. As long as he visited his terror on Russians and his enemies in Afghanistan, he was "our man" in that country. The same is true of Saddam Hussein of Iraq, who was a CIA asset in Iraq during the 1980s. Hussein could gas his own people, repress the population, and invade his neighbor (Iran) as long as he did it with U.S. approval. The same was true of Manuel Noriega of Panama, who was a contemporary and CIA partner of George H. Bush in the 1980s. Noriega's main crime for Bush, the father, was not that he dealt drugs (he did, but the U.S. and Bush knew this before 1989), but that Noriega was no longer going to cooperate in the ongoing U.S. terrorist contra war against Nicaragua. This information is not unknown or really controversial among elite policy makers. To repeat, this not to justify any of the actions of last Tuesday, but to put it in its horrifying context. As shocking as the events of last Tuesday were, they are likely to generate even more horrific actions by the U.S. government that will add significantly to the 8,000,000 figure stated above. This response may well be qualitatively and quantitatively worst than the events of Tuesday. The New York Times headline of 9/14/01 states that, "Bush and Top Aides Proclaim Policy of Ending States That Back Terror" as if that was a rational, measured, or even sane option. States that have been identified for possible elimination are "a number of Asian and African countries, like Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, and even Pakistan." This is beyond shocking and horrific-it is just as potentially suicidal, homicidal, and more insane than the hijackers themselves. Also, qualitatively, these actions will be even worse than the original bombers if one accepts the mainstream premise that those involved are "madmen", "religious fanatics", or a "terrorist group." If so, they are acting as either individuals or as a small group. The U.S. actions may continue the homicidal policies of a few thousand elites for the past 50 years, involving both political parties. The retail terror is that of desperate and sometime fanatical small groups and individuals who often have legitimate grievances, but engage in individual criminal and illegitimate activities; the wholesale terror is that of "rational" educated men where the pain, suffering, and deaths of millions of people are contemplated, planned, and too often, executed, for the purpose of furthering a nebulous concept called the "national interest". Space does not allow a full explanation of the elites Orwellian concept of the "national interest", but it can be summarized as the protection and expansion of hegemony and an imperial empire. The American public is being prepared for war while being fed a continuous stream of shocking and horrific repeated images of Tuesday's events and heartfelt stories from the survivors and the loved ones of those who lost family members. These stories are real and should not be diminished. In fact, those who lost family members can be considered a representative sample of humanity of the 8,000,000 who have been lost previously. If we multiply by 800-1000 times the amount of pain, angst, and anger being currently felt by the American public, we might begin to understand how much of the rest of the world feels as they are continually victimized. Some particularly poignant images are the heart wrenching public stories that we are seeing and hearing of family members with pictures and flyers searching for their loved ones. These images are virtually the same as those of the "Mothers of the Disappeared" who searched for their (primarily) adult children in places such as Argentina, where over 11,000 were "disappeared" in 1976-1982, again with U.S. approval. Just as the mothers of Argentina deserved our respect and compassion, so do the relatives of those who are searching for their relatives now. However we should not allow ourselves to be manipulated by the U.S. government into turning real grief and anger into a national policy of wholesale terror and genocide against innocent civilians in Asia and Africa. What we are seeing in military terms is called "softening the target." The target here is the American public and we are being ideologically and emotionally prepared for the slaughter that may commence soon. None of the previously identified Asian and African countries are democracies, which means that the people of these countries have virtually no impact on developing the policies of their governments, even if we assume that these governments are complicit in Tuesday's actions. When one examines the recent history of these countries, one will find that the American government had direct and indirect influences on creating the conditions for the existence of some of these governments. This is especially true of the Taliban government of Afghanistan itself. The New York Metropolitan Area has about 21,000,000 people or about 8 % of the U.S. population. Almost everyone in America knows someone who has been killed, injured or traumatized by the events of Tuesday. I know that I do. Many people are calling for "revenge" or "vengeance" and comments such as "kill them all" have been circulated on the TV, radio, and email. A few more potentially benign comments have called for "justice." This is only potentially benign since that term may be defined by people such as Bush and Colin Powell. Powell is an unrepentant participant in the Vietnam War, the terrorist contra war against Nicaragua, and the Gulf war, at each level becoming more responsible for the planning and execution of the policies. Those affected, all of us, must do everything in our power to prevent a wider war and even greater atrocity, do everything possible to stop the genocide if it starts, and hold those responsible for their potential war crimes during and after the war. If there is a great war in 2001 and it is not catastrophic (a real possibility), the crimes of that war will be revisited upon the U.S. over the next generation. That is not some kind of religious prophecy or threat, it is merely a straightforward political analysis. If indeed it is Bin Laden, the world must not deal only with him as an individual criminal, but eliminate the conditions that create the injustices and war crimes that will inevitably lead to more of these types of attacks in the future. The phrase "No Justice, No Peace" is more than a slogan used in a march, it is an observable historical fact. It is time to end the horror. In a few short pages it is impossible to delineate all of the events described over the past week or to give a comprehensive accounting of U.S. foreign policy. Below are a few resources for up to date news and some background reading, by Noam Chomsky, the noted analyst. The titles of the books explain their relevance for this topic. > > > > For the most current information see http://www.commondreams.org/. > > For information on how the media distorts the news see > > http://www.fair.org/. > > For excellent links on the Middle East see > > http://al-awda.org/newyork/links.html. > > > > > > For background reading by Noam Chomsky see: > > Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies > > Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media >(with Ed > > Herman Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel and the >Palestinians > > Deterring Democracy > > >-- >"An eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind." >- Mahatma Gandhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laraver Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 You are, without reservation, a jerk for defending the actions of the murdering zealots who committed these acts of war. Whose side are you on anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted October 11 Author Report Share Posted October 11 And you are obviously ignorant. Yes, I will defend anyone who's been screwed over, and their problems aren't publicized enough. The major powers of the world have been screwing over these poor people for years now and it has finally been brought into the light. I don't really think what they did is right, but they need to be understood so that we can deal with them in a humane way and not go bomb fucking mud huts and kill starving people. So, before you call me a jerk, why don't you take a good long look at yourself and what you know about this situation before you go talking shit.P.S. Before you bash me..and obviously you don't know enough about what is going on over there....most of the Afghan population doesn't want the Taliban in power, and currently there is the Northern Alliance who is resisting Taliban power, and they hold around 30% of the country. 76 innocent people have been killed so far in American raids. Now, I'm all for kicking the Taliban's ass, but not the people who have to put up with their shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laraver Posted October 17 Report Share Posted October 17 How could you defend Saddam Hussein or AL-Queda. Do you care so little for your country?Saddam Hussein is a modern day Hitler. He gassed his own civilian poulation. The soldiers and civilians killed on the highway of death were trying to escape after looting, raping and murdering in Kuwait. Did you forget that little detail? They got what they deserved.The people in the WTC were in no way legitimate targets. Soldiers and military personnel expect to go in harms way (The Cole incident, The Army Rangers in Magadishu, etc) That you would defend someone who comitted these acts is morally reprehensible.Osama and his kind need to be wiped off the face of the earth. The world that they espouse and envision is one that would take away the very freedom you have to speak your mind on this forum. The Caliphate they dream of is not too many steps removed from Pol Pot's vision for returning Cambodia to an agrarian society. Kill off any one who has any education. Destroy all vestiges of technology and return to a world where things are much simpler. On many levels Al-Queda, Osama, the Taliban and the people around the world who think like them are like ostriches trying to hide their heads in the sand, afraid of the changes and empowerment wrought by technology. No TV, No music, no playing checkers, no flying kites. But I would be willing to bet that none of these rules are imposed on Osama by the Taliban. They are murdering, repressive hypocrites.I read one place that the best way to deal with these people would be to give their women guns. I think that doing that would be a very interesting social experiment.Osoma has attempted to obtain nuclear weapons, "suitcase bombs" as they are euphamistically referred to. Should the US wait until he obtains one and uses it before acting to nip this problem before it gets much worse?Will you still be defending the oppressed people when your family is incinerated? Will you still be defending them when your child is dying of a mutated virulent strain of smallpox, engineered by the Soviets, sold to the terrorists, and released by a human suicide volunteer?If most of the Afghans don't want the Taliban then they should rebel against that regime and remove them from power. I have no issue against the Afghan people. They should be helped, provided food, medicine, and assistance in building their country to a point that they are self sustaining. I truly feel bad for the people who will be killed or wounded who have nothing to do with this conflict.On the other hand you need to consider this: If the school bully walks up to your kid as he walks to school and beats him and robs his lunch money. ( Now the school bully has all this repressed anger because his Mom and Dad are divorced, he didn't breast feed long enough, he has a bad crack habit, whatever) should you tell your kid "Oh just ignore the bully Ahmed he has been oppressed" or would send Ahmed to school escorted by his older bigger brother to take care of the bully.If Osama had put all his money and resources into making the lives of the Muslim's he claims to represent better, instead of killing people, I wonder how much better off his Muslim brothers would be. If Saddam had spent his money on economic development instead of trying to obtain SCUDS, nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons how much better off would the Iraqi people be? There would be no sanctions. Iraqi oil could be sold in the world market. How far could those billions of dollars gone in helping his people if he had not engaged in an 8 year war with Iran that served no other purpose other than killing off hundreds of thousands of combatants on both sides. How many starving babies would Iraq have if had not chosen to squander his money on weaponry? Have you considered that in your defense of Osama, Saddam and the Taliban.Obviously not. I just hope for your family's sake the next terrorist act is not a thermonuclear device within a mile of your house, or a virus like ebola causing them to die a slow and painful death, bleeding from every orifice in their body. But I am sure that would be ok with you because those people were opressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted October 17 Author Report Share Posted October 17 Well, that's life honey...whatever happens, happens. I am a big believer of fate. I agree with what you say, but I still say that the other side needs to be understood in order to deal with them more appropriately to reach a conclusion that will satisfy both sides. Being an international relations major, I feel that this is the best way to approach this problem. Bombing innocents won't. On both sides,people are getting killed, and it is up to the leaders of both sides to decide whether this is going to be an all out war or not. Well, I guess we'll see what happens, right?P.S. If someone in my family was killed, I'd find who did it and kill THEM, but not every fucking Afghan or Saudi or whoever.I don't believe in involving those who have had nothing to do with it, although in war this seems to be forgotten quite a few number of times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlish Posted October 17 Report Share Posted October 17 You both have good points. Something has to be done about terrorism and these acts of terror that have been perpetrated against our country (there have been other acts besides the WTC bombing...that's just the first on our turf), however, innocent people should not be subjected to more pain and suffering. Sassa's correct, most Afghan's are against the Taliban, but they are poor, undeducated and unable to fight against them. How do you expect them to fight the Taliban...with sticks? That would be slaughter. They do have a small alliance that is actively fighting the Taliban and I'm sure they will aid the U.S. in overthrowing the Taliban (whom we helped put into power when we helped them break from Russia in the 80's...yet forgot about when that conflict was over and Russia was defeated...why didn't we help them build their economy, government then???) I don't agree with what Larry Mosqueda (Sassa's cut n past post) said about Iran. I lived there in 1978-79 and my family was one of the last to flee the country before the hostage crisis. So I know a lot about what was going on there at that time and how a great Orator, like Khomeini can use religion to get people to rise up against anything "non muslim". I've seen people killed, my neighbor's father was killed in a car bomb on his way to work. We were almost massacred in Isphahan when they found out American's were on the plane trying to flee the country. Since I was in the middle of it, I took it upon myself to learn more about the situation, how it came to be, for my own piece of mind...because you can't believe the media. I could go into everything about the CIA's helping Mohammed Reza Pahlavi (the shah from 1941-79) retain his power...but we didn't place him there...his family already had control in 1912, when his father became shah of Iran. But, this gets off the point completely, and I could go on and on about Iran, or Persia and the Muslim religion...but this shows a correlation and how Bin Laden could get people to rally behind him in the name of Allah...I've seen it firsthand...and I don't blame them for following his lead, if this indead happens...if you were in their situation who would you trust??? It's tough to put yourself in their shoes unless you've lived among them...it's like Mexico but worse, the rich are Bill Gates x 100 and the poor live in caves in a mountain selling goat parts to survive...but, they don't deserve to die...they just need direction, medical attention, education and someone to help show them a better way of life...it can happen and I hope it does. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for going in and killing Bin Laden and everyone involved, but just not all these innocent people...which will happen and unfortunately must, as military strikes aren't always so precise. Just hopefully we can get everyone involved and not piss anyone else off that at one time was nuetral and innocent, yet now will take his place. It's a delicate situation, but one that must be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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